Binary

[Lacewing]

It frustrates me that either I am wrong or all the people who believe Christ = God = creator of all that is are wrong. I mean, I suppose I could just let them be wrong or else let myself be wrong, but what happens to those who are "wrong" in this world? Do the wrong not further perpetuate what is wrong? I don't want to be wrong and I don't want other people to be wrong and potentially pay a penalty for it.

Personally, I think we should all try to be as agnostic as possible regarding matters of "life after death" or "heaven and hell" or whether there was a creator of the universe or whether that creator was good or bad, male or female, or anything else. HOWEVER, we ought not be overly agnostic about everything that does happen in this world while we are alive--things that we are logically and technically able to know.

Do you disagree with my assertions? If so, what have I said that is not acceptable?

I think people should believe whatever they want to believe as long as they don't imagine bizarre rules that must apply to other people.

We can't actually know what's wrong or right for each person. There could be lots of different levels and vibrations that people are resonating on/with. Maybe the idea of a certain God is a certain realm (or bubble of belief) that is very real for some people -- but it's not superior over other realms (or thought/experience bubbles) as they might think it is -- it's simply just ONE realm to experience from the human state. Maybe it doesn't matter which realm-of-thought/reality a person is attuned to in their human form -- rather, what matters for themselves and others while they're here is what they do with it.

I don't think it makes sense that a human being can claim or impose a certain framework of conclusions on what faces all human beings after the death of human bodies. I mean, seriously... how ridiculous. We are such limited organic beings and yet we imagine that a god told us such a thing? And it doesn't even make sense. Rather than striving for what should be believed, maybe we should be questioning what is believed. We don't have to have a bunch of beliefs to live and enjoy life! Example: Young children!

We can each determine what makes sense and feels right to us while we're here, and make peace with that amidst all the other concepts that work for other people. There is no single right answer for everyone... and I think we can see that as evidenced throughout humankind and history, don't you? If we stop being hung up on the concept of single right answers, we can be open and flexible to gain the benefits from more possibilities.

[Gary Childress]

It frustrates me that either I am wrong or all the people who believe Christ = God = creator of all that is are wrong. I mean, I suppose I could just let them be wrong or else let myself be wrong, but what happens to those who are "wrong" in this world? Do the wrong not further perpetuate what is wrong? I don't want to be wrong and I don't want other people to be wrong and potentially pay a penalty for it.

Personally, I think we should all try to be as agnostic as possible regarding matters of "life after death" or "heaven and hell" or whether there was a creator of the universe or whether that creator was good or bad, male or female, or anything else. HOWEVER, we ought not be overly agnostic about everything that does happen in this world while we are alive--things that we are logically and technically able to know.

Do you disagree with my assertions? If so, what have I said that is not acceptable?

I think people should believe whatever they want to believe as long as they don't imagine bizarre rules that must apply to other people.

We can't actually know what's wrong or right for each person. There could be lots of different levels and vibrations that people are resonating on/with. Maybe the idea of a certain God is a certain realm (or bubble of belief) that is very real for some people -- but it's not superior over other realms (or thought/experience bubbles) as they might think it is -- it's simply just ONE realm to experience from the human state. Maybe it doesn't matter which realm-of-thought/reality a person is attuned to in their human form -- rather, what matters for themselves and others while they're here is what they do with it.

I don't think it makes sense that a human being can claim or impose a certain framework of conclusions on what faces all human beings after the death of human bodies. I mean, seriously... how ridiculous. We are such limited organic beings and yet we imagine that a god told us such a thing? And it doesn't even make sense. Rather than striving for what should be believed, maybe we should be questioning what is believed. We don't have to have a bunch of beliefs to live and enjoy life! Example: Young children!

We can each determine what makes sense and feels right to us while we're alive, and make peace with that amidst all the other concepts that work for other people. There is no single right answer for everyone... and I think we can see that as evidenced throughout humankind and history, don't you? If we stop being hung up on the concept of single right answers, we can be open and flexible to gain the benefits from more possibilities.

Yes. We can be open until we discover the guy next to us is working on an entirely different project in life with an entirely different agenda that fundamentally conflicts with our own. Have you ever tried joining an evangelical Christian church? Those places are like cults of personality. Everyone in the congregation forms around the "minister" like Koolaide drinkers assemble around Jim Jones or Heaven's Gate. I've had it with evangelical Christianity. If you come across a group like that, all I can say is RUN before you have any children. Otherwise, your kids are going to grow up sheltered from reality living in theological Disney World. But, hey. That's probably a good sign that I don't belong among them. I don't like "corrupting the youth." Heaven forbid I should go the route of Socrates and end up on trial with a bunch of Euthyphros telling me what "piety" is.

[Lacewing]

Have you ever tried joining an evangelical Christian church? Those places are like cults of personality. Everyone in the congregation forms around the "minister" like Koolaide drinkers assemble around Jim Jones or Heaven's Gate. I've had it with evangelical Christianity. If you come across a group like that, all I can say is RUN before you have any children. Otherwise, your kids are going to grow up sheltered from reality living in theological Disney World. But, hey. That's probably a good sign that I don't belong among them. I don't like "corrupting the youth." Heaven forbid I should go the route of Socrates and end up on trial with a bunch of Euthyphros telling me what "piety" is.

I agree. That's the kind of church I grew up in. There were good people there... genuinely trying to do good... but I think it's child abuse to indoctrinate children into such distorted imagination. Even with all the good intentions, anything can become cult-like... and then it's focused on continual confirmation/affirmation rather than new discovery/realization.

We can be open until we discover the guy next to us is working on an entirely different project in life with an entirely different agenda that fundamentally conflicts with our own.

Why does that matter? That's just life. It's all over the map. What matters is what feels right for you to attune to... and you do your best amidst all the rest. Everyone is doing it in their own ways... for whatever reasons.

[Gary Childress]

Why does that matter? That's just life. It's all over the map. What matters is what feels right for you to attune to... and you do your best amidst all the rest. Everyone is doing it in their own ways... for whatever reasons.

I don't know. At what point should I start to worry? When the "Evangelical Church of the US" appoints a Pope and declares an inquisition?

[Lacewing]

Why does that matter? That's just life. It's all over the map. What matters is what feels right for you to attune to... and you do your best amidst all the rest. Everyone is doing it in their own ways... for whatever reasons.

I don't know. At what point should I start to worry? When the "Evangelical Church of the US" appoints a Pope and declares an inquisition?

There is no shortage of things one can worry about, Gary. If that's how you want to spend your energy, you can. But it changes nothing... and it's not very efficient considering all else that is available to work with. People are going to do all kinds of crazy stuff because they can. Everybody has their reasons and paths. You can't fix it... and maybe you're not supposed to: maybe the purpose or opportunity is to see what you can make of your own life/experience DESPITE all the distractions.

[Gary Childress]

Why does that matter? That's just life. It's all over the map. What matters is what feels right for you to attune to... and you do your best amidst all the rest. Everyone is doing it in their own ways... for whatever reasons.

I don't know. At what point should I start to worry? When the "Evangelical Church of the US" appoints a Pope and declares an inquisition?

There is no shortage of things one can worry about, Gary. If that's how you want to spend your energy, you can. But it changes nothing... and it's not very efficient considering all else that is available to work with. People are going to do all kinds of crazy stuff because they can. Everybody has their reasons and paths. You can't fix it... and maybe you're not supposed to: maybe the purpose or opportunity is to see what you can make of your own life/experience DESPITE all the distractions.

The "buzz word" lately among the corporate sector "it is what it is" accomplishes NOTHING. If you want to change people's minds then you have to engage them. How do you expect those people to change if you don't help replace their ignorance with something better? Why are you telling me to "not worry"? Do I strike you as someone who is ignorant and needs to be 'counseled' or something?

[Lacewing]

I don't know. At what point should I start to worry? When the "Evangelical Church of the US" appoints a Pope and declares an inquisition?

There is no shortage of things one can worry about, Gary. If that's how you want to spend your energy, you can. But it changes nothing... and it's not very efficient considering all else that is available to work with. People are going to do all kinds of crazy stuff because they can. Everybody has their reasons and paths. You can't fix it... and maybe you're not supposed to: maybe the purpose or opportunity is to see what you can make of your own life/experience DESPITE all the distractions.

The "buzz word" lately among the corporate sector "it is what it is" accomplishes NOTHING. If you want to change people's minds then you have to engage them. How do you expect those people to change if you don't help replace their ignorance with something better? Why are you telling me to "not worry"? Do I strike you as someone who is ignorant and needs to be 'counseled' or something?

Oh, I'm sorry, Gary. You had asked me at what point you should start to worry... and since many of your posts seem to worry about a lot of different things... I focused on the issue of worrying.

I think, when you can stop framing things in such binary terms -- essentially limiting the possibilities -- you will find more effective techniques. For example, just because someone points out the futility of worrying DOES NOT mean that they are suggesting doing nothing. But do you see how you immediately jumped to that?

It seems that you're going to keep asking questions (and apparently rejecting feedback) and justifying your inability to see more than the binary framework you are convinced of and a prisoner of. There is no answer that will satisfy or save you because, maybe, you're locked in binary duels. Just like the effects of religious 'programming', we suffer from the effects of all kinds of other programming as humans... and I think binary thinking, two-dimensional thinking, strips people of their power and enables us to be pitted against each other.

[Gary Childress]

There is no shortage of things one can worry about, Gary. If that's how you want to spend your energy, you can. But it changes nothing... and it's not very efficient considering all else that is available to work with. People are going to do all kinds of crazy stuff because they can. Everybody has their reasons and paths. You can't fix it... and maybe you're not supposed to: maybe the purpose or opportunity is to see what you can make of your own life/experience DESPITE all the distractions.

The "buzz word" lately among the corporate sector "it is what it is" accomplishes NOTHING. If you want to change people's minds then you have to engage them. How do you expect those people to change if you don't help replace their ignorance with something better? Why are you telling me to "not worry"? Do I strike you as someone who is ignorant and needs to be 'counseled' or something?

Oh, I'm sorry, Gary. You had asked me at what point you should start to worry... and since many of your posts seem to worry about a lot of different things... I focused on the issue of worrying.

I think, when you can stop framing things in such binary terms -- essentially limiting the possibilities -- you will find more effective techniques. For example, just because someone points out the futility of worrying DOES NOT mean that they are suggesting doing nothing. But do you see how you immediately jumped to that?

It seems that you're going to keep asking questions (and apparently rejecting feedback) and justifying your inability to see more than the binary framework you are convinced of and a prisoner of. There is no answer that will satisfy or save you because, maybe, you're locked in binary duels. Just like the effects of religious 'programming', we suffer from the effects of all kinds of other programming as humans... and I think binary thinking, two-dimensional thinking, strips people of their power and enables us to be pitted against each other.

If it's not "binary thinking" pitting one against another, then it'll be "multi-culturalism" that will pit all against all. Just sitting around and not committing to anything doesn't seem particularly any more palatable than throwing darts at a board to choose what one believes. An Atheist may be correct or incorrect. A theist may be correct or incorrect. Anyone with any view whatsoever concerning what happens when life ends could be correct or incorrect. However, I am pretty certain when I say I don't know what becomes of any of us after life ends that I am correct in saying that I DON'T KNOW. If I said anything else then I would be lying. If people are going to write in a book that I'm going to "hell" for not believing in X, Y, and Z, then I'm going to find out if they are correct or incorrect. If you want to fix me by suggesting I don't do anything, then fix them first. Fix the ones who are lying about something they don't know first. As far as I'm concerned I'm fine.

[Lacewing]

Just sitting around and not committing to anything...

Who suggested this?

throwing darts at a board to choose what one believes.

Who suggested this?

If you want to fix me by suggesting I don't do anything...

Who suggested this?

If these things are what you imagine you're 'hearing', it shows how limited your hearing is.

[Gary Childress]

Just sitting around and not committing to anything...

Who suggested this?

throwing darts at a board to choose what one believes.

Who suggested this?

If you want to fix me by suggesting I don't do anything...

Who suggested this?

If these things are what you imagine you're 'hearing', it shows how limited your hearing is.

In what way is my hearing "limited".

[Lacewing]

Just sitting around and not committing to anything...

Who suggested this?

throwing darts at a board to choose what one believes.

Who suggested this?

If you want to fix me by suggesting I don't do anything...

Who suggested this?

If these things are what you imagine you're 'hearing', it shows how limited your hearing is.

In what way is my hearing "limited".

You're apparently not able to hear beyond your own imagined 'extreme opposites'. Show where anyone said those things. They are your distortions. Why are you doing that?

[Gary Childress]

Who suggested this?


Who suggested this?


Who suggested this?

If these things are what you imagine you're 'hearing', it shows how limited your hearing is.

In what way is my hearing "limited".

You're apparently not able to hear beyond your own imagined 'extreme opposites'. Show where anyone said those things. They are your distortions. Why are you doing that?

Apparently, because I'm screwed up in the head. I'm "mentally ill". Binary thinking is "mentally ill".

[Lacewing]

Binary thinking is "mentally ill".

Who suggested this? Besides you?

[Gary Childress]

Binary thinking is "mentally ill".

Who suggested this? Besides you?

OK. so binary thinking is healthy?

[Lacewing]

Binary thinking is "mentally ill".

Who suggested this? Besides you?

OK. so binary thinking is healthy?

It's ONE WAY of thinking. It has obvious limitations. Whether it's healthy or not depends on what you do with it, right?