The Self Is an Illusion Created by the Grammatic Structure of Language

[JoyfulWisdom]

Hi, this is my first post here on this forum. I've recently made a video [hotlink redacted] on Nietzsche's critique of Descartes' famous dictum "I think, therefore I am" and his resulting argument that the notion of the self (aka the subject) as the "cause" of our thinking is an illusion resulting from when we try to interpret our mind through language and its grammatical structure (every event must be divided into "the subject" + "the predicate"). In reality, i.e., in the real world not interpreted through language, Nietzsche argues, there is no self, as thinking is an activity that happens "by itself" without the necessity of a "doer", the "doer" (the subject) is only added to it when language is used as a mode of interpretation.

Let me know what you think about this argument. Do you agree with it? Do you know some similar ideas to it? I've personally found it quite convincing so I'm looking for counterarguments if you would find any.


[Edited by iMod]

[mmarco]

I totally disagree.
The fundamental property of consciousness, as we directly experience it, is subjectivity, i.e. the immediate and intuitive awareness of oneself as an indivisible unit, our "I". Consciousness is inherently subjective because a subject is an intrinsic property of experience, and subjectivity cannot be broken down into simpler elements / pieces.
So, the term “consciousness” always refers to a subject who has a mental experience. For example, when we feel pain, what exists is not pain alone but “we who feel pain”; the “we” is an intrinsic part of the experience of pain. The same is true for any action: for example, there is no “walking” without a “walking subject”. The idea that an experience can exist without an experiencer is simply a nonsensical expression, exactly as the expression “spherical cube”, which is an expression formed by juxtaposing two words whose meaning is mutually exclusive, thus leading to an intrinsic logical contradiction. Language allows us to form meaningless expressions and this can create illusory definitions; these expressions may create the illusion of a meaning, while they are devoid of any meaning. The idea that consciousness or a mental experience can be subjectless, in the sense that it does not imply a unitary subjectivity that has a mental experience, is an illusory idea exactly like the idea of ​​a spherical cube or the idea that there may be a “walking” without a “walking subject”.
What distinguishes science from supertitions or philosophical speculations is that science is a combination of logic and empirical evidence, and the most fundamental and direct empirical evidence is that we are the subject of our mental experiences.

[Age]

WHY do people even 'TRY TO' fight or argue for what they currently BELIEVE is true, like these two are doing, which is only really just expressing OPPOSING 'truths', when 'they' could just be expressing ONLY what ACTUALLY happens and occurs INSTEAD, which then RELEASES or REVEALS what the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth REALLY IS, EXACTLY?

[Skepdick]

Hi, this is my first post here on this forum. I

So how would you correct those grammatical errors?

[commonsense]

Hi, this is my first post here on this forum. I

So how would you correct those grammatical errors?

Skep, I see no grammatical errors. Please elucidate me. Joyful has already had enough time to reply, and apparently does not know how to fix things.

[Skepdick]

Hi, this is my first post here on this forum. I

So how would you correct those grammatical errors?

Skep, I see no grammatical errors. Please elucidate me. Joyful has already had enough time to reply, and apparently does not know how to fix things.

The premise of the OP is that the self is a grammatical illusion.

And yet the noun “I”, and the possessive pronoun “my” are being used.

What does the noun refer to; and who owns the post?

If those are just errors surely the sentence can be restated error-free?

[commonsense]

So how would you correct those grammatical errors?

Skep, I see no grammatical errors. Please elucidate me. Joyful has already had enough time to reply, and apparently does not know how to fix things.

The premise of the OP is that the self is a grammatical illusion.

And yet the noun “I”, and the possessive pronoun “my” are being used.

What does the noun refer to; and who owns the post?

If those are just errors surely the sentence can be restated error-free?

Yes, I see it now.