Critical Difference, Buddhism vs Vedanta

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Iwannaplato
Posts: 6802
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Critical Difference, Buddhism vs Vedanta

Post by Iwannaplato »

Atla wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:08 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:01 am
Atla wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:33 pm
I didn't say that we shouldn't express them, but some people have such strong emotions that expressing those strong emotions could ruin their lives.
Well, I am not suggesting that everyone just let every barriar and caution down and run around expressing all their emotions everywhere without regard to context and who is there. First, it's nearly impossible to make a change like that. Second, it's important to be in contact with one's fear: there are people and situations where it is dangerous to express emotions and if you are in contact with your fear this can aid you in choosing. If one chose to value expression as I do, then it begins with oneself, alone, and then with people who share a similar value. Any emotion that you yourself have judged as negative and should never be expressed can be explored alone. I mean, that in itself can be scary for people who are backed up or have strong family/societal judgments that have held this in place. And these habits and judgments are not easy to remove, generally taking years to make a real shift - meaning: beyond occasional explosions of catharsis under exploring or because one simply can no longer hold it in. IOW to a place where the emotion can express long before it is backed up.

And some people are really toxic or montrous so I have little interest in them learning all sorts of things.
Sure but above I was just referring to fanatically minded people who can have such strong emotions that can break the mind. I wasn't clear. There is a limit to what the brain/mind can handle and some people are naturally above that.
I'm not sure what 'break the mind means' but there are people I am quite happy if they suppress their feelings. I am not sure what the intent of some people is, so I am not enthusiastic about them getting out of their own way. And then, yes, I agree in a sense, that some people need to learn other things first before slowly and gently learning to express their feelings. They would likely take suggestions to express themselves in ways that do neither them or those they are in contact with any good. Not that it is easy to decide who is who in these cautions.

But in general Buddhism is antilife while pretending to be the opposite. Not in the same ways that Christianity, say, is antilife.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6802
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Critical Difference, Buddhism vs Vedanta

Post by Iwannaplato »

Most Buddhist traditions have a great distaste for emotions and desires.
Below from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleshas_(Buddhism)
where there is more.
Kleshas (Sanskrit: क्लेश, romanized: kleśa; Pali: किलेस kilesa; Standard Tibetan: ཉོན་མོངས། nyon mongs), in Buddhism, are mental states that cloud the mind and manifest in unwholesome actions. Kleshas include states of mind such as anxiety, fear, anger, jealousy, desire, depression, etc. Contemporary translators use a variety of English words to translate the term kleshas, such as: afflictions, defilements, destructive emotions, disturbing emotions, negative emotions, mind poisons, and neuroses.

In the contemporary Mahayana and Theravada Buddhist traditions, the three kleshas of ignorance, attachment, and aversion are identified as the root or source of all other kleshas. These are referred to as the three poisons in the Mahayana tradition, or as the three unwholesome roots in the Theravada tradition.

While the early Buddhist texts of the Pali canon do not specifically enumerate the three root kleshas, over time the three poisons (and the kleshas generally) came to be seen as the very roots of samsaric existence.

Pali literature
Pāli Canon

1. Vinaya Piṭaka
1. Suttavibhaṅga
2. Khandhaka
3. Parivāra
2. Sutta Piṭaka
1. Dīgha Nikāya
2. Majjhima Nikāya
3. Saṃyutta Nikāya
4. Aṅguttara Nikāya
5. Khuddaka Nikāya
3. Abhidhamma Piṭaka
1. Dhammasaṅgaṇī
2. Vibhaṅga
3. Dhātukathā
4. Puggalapaññatti
5. Kathāvatthu
6. Yamaka
7. Paṭṭhāna
vte
In the Pali Canon's discourses (sutta), kilesa is often associated with the various passions that defile bodily and mental states. In the Pali Canon's Abhidhamma and post-canonical Pali literature, ten defilements are identified, the first three of which – greed, hate, delusion – are considered to be the "roots" of suffering.

Sutta Piṭaka: mental hindrances
In the Pali Canon's Sutta Piṭaka, kilesa and its correlate upakkilesa[1] are affective obstacles to the pursuit of direct knowledge (abhijñā) and wisdom (pañña).

For instance, the Samyutta Nikaya includes a collection of ten discourses (SN 27, Kilesa-saṃyutta) that state that any association of "desire-passion" (chanda-rāgo) with the body or mind[2] is a "defilement of mind" (cittasse'so upakkileso):

"Monks, any desire-passion with regard to the eye is a defilement of the mind. Any desire-passion with regard to the ear... the nose... the tongue... the body... the intellect is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing."[3]
More broadly, the five hindrances – sensual desire (kāmacchanda), anger (byāpāda), sloth-torpor (thīna-middha), restlessness-worry (uddhacca-kukkucca), and doubt (vicikicchā) – are frequently associated with kilesa in the following (or a similar) manner:

[A]ll those Blessed Ones had first abandoned the five hindrances,
defilements of the mind that weaken wisdom ...[4] sabbe te bhagavanto pañcanīvaraṇe pahāya
cetaso upakkilese paññāya dubbalīkaraṇe ... .[5]
Additionally, in the Khuddaka Nikaya's Niddesa, kilesa is identified as a component of or synonymous with craving (taṇhā) and lust (rāga).[6]
Post Reply