Sleeping Giants and Fading Empires

[Dubious]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... eb99ec6bd0

To be honest, perhaps we should allow our military to fade into insignificance. Perhaps it will teach us to favor diplomacy more. Perhaps China would take the lead. However, how long would they be able to keep the lead before militarism degrades their culture and economy also? Wouldn't it be better to just bury the hatchet and for all nations to work more cooperatively toward peaceful prosperity?

What do others think? Is it time to put militarism out to the pasture and have more faith in diplomacy and humanity? Fuck militarism. Fuck fearmongering.

Your idea has merit only if all the main powers default to diplomacy. If not - which has long been our current state of managing geopolitics - having any Western nation - the U.S. especially - unilaterally rescind its military would be devastation for the West. Working toward greater cooperation and prosperity would be the unquestioned global solution, but the realpolitik at this time, and possibly for more years to come, will tragically not permit it. In that case, one has to ensure that one's fist can hit with at least equal but preferably greater force than that of its adversaries who are aware of the consequences. Unfortunately, it looks like the wimpy West is in danger of losing any advantage it once had. Who knows what the status quo will be in the coming years. It's not far-fetched that the East will eventually end up controlling most of the planet. There are a lot of idiots in our hemisphere who think that's a good thing!

[Age]

Yes, Pollyanna.

'Trying to' RIDICULE one for seeking out ways to BETTER 'the world' is ANOTHER typical response of some adult human beings.

Or, if you were NOT 'trying to' RIDICULE here, then what do you ACTUALLY MEAN here?

I only meant that such are the things dreams are made of.

And EVERY thing else that human beings have created, so far, was once just a dream.

[Age]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... eb99ec6bd0

To be honest, perhaps we should allow our military to fade into insignificance. Perhaps it will teach us to favor diplomacy more. Perhaps China would take the lead. However, how long would they be able to keep the lead before militarism degrades their culture and economy also? Wouldn't it be better to just bury the hatchet and for all nations to work more cooperatively toward peaceful prosperity?

What do others think? Is it time to put militarism out to the pasture and have more faith in diplomacy and humanity? Fuck militarism. Fuck fearmongering.

Your idea has merit only if all the main powers default to diplomacy. If not - which has long been our current state of managing geopolitics - having any Western nation - the U.S. especially - unilaterally rescind its military would be devastation for the West.

LOL

A lot of the so-called "west" do NOT want the us, nor their ridiculous and stupid military, which has caused a LOT of the completely UNNECESSARY Wrong in the 'world'.

It was this type of STUPID thinking or BELIEVING that WITHOUT the us and its military there would be DEVASTATION was the reason WHY that ABSURD military STILL existed, in the days when this was being written.

Working toward greater cooperation and prosperity would be the unquestioned global solution, but the realpolitik at this time, and possibly for more years to come, will tragically not permit it.

As an example, it was through the USE of totally False words, like 'real' here, WHY things took SO LONG to CHANGE, for the better.

In that case, one has to ensure that one's fist can hit with at least equal but preferably greater force than that of its adversaries who are aware of the consequences.

Here is ANOTHER example of ABSURDNESS, in the extreme. That is; UNTIL we can 'get along' WITH 'them', we HAVE TO SHOW and/or DESTROY 'them', through POWER and MIGHT.

Unfortunately, it looks like the wimpy West is in danger of losing any advantage it once had. Who knows what the status quo will be in the coming years. It's not far-fetched that the East will eventually end up controlling most of the planet. There are a lot of idiots in our hemisphere who think that's a good thing!

But there are NO idiots AT ALL who think that the people of just one country having CONTROL OVER ALL of the other countries is NOT a good thing, right?

I would like to suggest here that there are in fact MORE idiots who think that one country having control over most or all of the planet is BETTER than half of the world having control over all or most of the planet, than there are idiots who think that half of the world having control over most of the planet is a BETTER thing.

Obviously ANY 'thing' having CONTROL OVER ANOTHER 'thing' is NOT a GOOD 'thing' AT ALL.

[popeye1945]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... eb99ec6bd0

To be honest, perhaps we should allow our military to fade into insignificance. Perhaps it will teach us to favor diplomacy more. Perhaps China would take the lead. However, how long would they be able to keep the lead before militarism degrades their culture and economy also? Wouldn't it be better to just bury the hatchet and for all nations to work more cooperatively toward peaceful prosperity?
What do others think? Is it time to put militarism out to the pasture and have more faith in diplomacy and humanity? Fuck militarism. Fuck fearmongering.

The essential problem I think is the types of people that gain political power, in the case of many countries, the whole political field is one that is amoral with all the sensitivity of a group of psychopaths. I am thinking of the American government right now.

Why are you thinking specifically of the American government? I get that you're angry at the US but I think it behooves you to acknowledge that it's a problem with a lot of governments, including that of Russia. Otherwise, you're not really getting to the heart of the problem, I don't think. I mean, America uses the same logic to justify its wars and incursions. Special pleading in order to justify the unjustifiable is the way corrupt government officials think. I think the better option is to step out of the box and denounce all the bad actors, not just one. Otherwise, I think you're just going to end up with someone else doing a lot of depraved stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think of the America government because it is the most violent and the only superpower, their experience of both world wars was to find war profitable and I believe have had a permanent war economy since the end of World War two. The industrial military complex is what Eisenhower warned the American public about. It needs war to feed itself, grow and expand, not unlike cancer. The states/industrial military complex decided at some point America should rule the world and up to the present it has not been a kind master. Interesting point here. I think nearly all the NATO nations are those who were colonizers in the past and those they are pitting themselves against are their old colonies. NATO has grown and is spreading and now it's on Russia's border. There is China as well who they have already defined as their number one enemy, surrounded with at least forty military bases with nuclear weapons. The American people are to the power elite, just cattle to be funneled to think and believe what they are told, praise the lord! Christian fascism!! Never mind, my country sucks up to America power better than most, Canada falls in line. As many countries that whored themselves to oppress the Vietnamese people are behind American aggression against Russia.

[Gary Childress]

The essential problem I think is the types of people that gain political power, in the case of many countries, the whole political field is one that is amoral with all the sensitivity of a group of psychopaths. I am thinking of the American government right now.

Why are you thinking specifically of the American government? I get that you're angry at the US but I think it behooves you to acknowledge that it's a problem with a lot of governments, including that of Russia. Otherwise, you're not really getting to the heart of the problem, I don't think. I mean, America uses the same logic to justify its wars and incursions. Special pleading in order to justify the unjustifiable is the way corrupt government officials think. I think the better option is to step out of the box and denounce all the bad actors, not just one. Otherwise, I think you're just going to end up with someone else doing a lot of depraved stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think of the America government because it is the most violent and the only superpower, their experience of both world wars was to find war profitable and I believe have had a permanent war economy since the end of World War two. The industrial military complex is what Eisenhower warned the American public about. It needs war to feed itself, grow and expand, not unlike cancer. The states/industrial military complex decided at some point America should rule the world and up to the present it has not been a kind master. Interesting point here. I think nearly all the NATO nations are those who were colonizers in the past and those they are pitting themselves against are their old colonies. NATO has grown and is spreading and now it's on Russia's border. There is China as well who they have already defined as their number one enemy, surrounded with at least forty military bases with nuclear weapons. The American people are to the power elite, just cattle to be funneled to think and believe what they are told, praise the lord! Christian fascism!! Never mind, my country sucks up to America power better than most, Canada falls in line. As many countries that whored themselves to oppress the Vietnamese people are behind American aggression against Russia.

Then support Russian aggression by all means. We'll see how long the honeymoon lasts.

[popeye1945]

Why are you thinking specifically of the American government? I get that you're angry at the US but I think it behooves you to acknowledge that it's a problem with a lot of governments, including that of Russia. Otherwise, you're not really getting to the heart of the problem, I don't think. I mean, America uses the same logic to justify its wars and incursions. Special pleading in order to justify the unjustifiable is the way corrupt government officials think. I think the better option is to step out of the box and denounce all the bad actors, not just one. Otherwise, I think you're just going to end up with someone else doing a lot of depraved stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think of the America government because it is the most violent and the only superpower, their experience of both world wars was to find war profitable and I believe have had a permanent war economy since the end of World War two. The industrial military complex is what Eisenhower warned the American public about. It needs war to feed itself, grow and expand, not unlike cancer. The states/industrial military complex decided at some point America should rule the world and up to the present it has not been a kind master. Interesting point here. I think nearly all the NATO nations are those who were colonizers in the past and those they are pitting themselves against are their old colonies. NATO has grown and is spreading and now it's on Russia's border. There is China as well who they have already defined as their number one enemy, surrounded with at least forty military bases with nuclear weapons. The American people are to the power elite, just cattle to be funneled to think and believe what they are told, praise the lord! Christian fascism!! Never mind, my country sucks up to America power better than most, Canada falls in line. As many countries that whored themselves to oppress the Vietnamese people are behind American aggression against Russia.

Then support Russian aggression by all means. We'll see how long the honeymoon lasts.

Sometimes things are really simple, and yet, some fail to grasp the obvious, like who is on whose border. Are the Chinese aggressive with forty or more American military bases surrounding them and equipped with nuclear weapon. You're a Yanky Doodle Dandy me thinks, all other nations have no choice but wear black hats, a whore nation gets a grey one.

[Gary Childress]

I think of the America government because it is the most violent and the only superpower, their experience of both world wars was to find war profitable and I believe have had a permanent war economy since the end of World War two. The industrial military complex is what Eisenhower warned the American public about. It needs war to feed itself, grow and expand, not unlike cancer. The states/industrial military complex decided at some point America should rule the world and up to the present it has not been a kind master. Interesting point here. I think nearly all the NATO nations are those who were colonizers in the past and those they are pitting themselves against are their old colonies. NATO has grown and is spreading and now it's on Russia's border. There is China as well who they have already defined as their number one enemy, surrounded with at least forty military bases with nuclear weapons. The American people are to the power elite, just cattle to be funneled to think and believe what they are told, praise the lord! Christian fascism!! Never mind, my country sucks up to America power better than most, Canada falls in line. As many countries that whored themselves to oppress the Vietnamese people are behind American aggression against Russia.

Then support Russian aggression by all means. We'll see how long the honeymoon lasts.

Sometimes things are really simple, and yet, some fail to grasp the obvious, like who is on whose border. Are the Chinese aggressive with forty or more American military bases surrounding them and equipped with nuclear weapon. You're a Yanky Doodle Dandy me thinks, all other nations have no choice but wear black hats, a whore nation gets a grey one.

Fair enough. Go for it.

[Gary Childress]

I mean, our leaders have been a pack of assholes, attacking countries that didn't deserve to be attacked. Perhaps it'll be good medicine for them to lose Allies over it. I would just think there should be a better way of holding them accountable for their evil than supporting the evil of another. But maybe two wrongs make a right. Heck, in this world, it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case.

[Dubious]

I think of the America government because it is the most violent and the only superpower, their experience of both world wars was to find war profitable and I believe have had a permanent war economy since the end of World War two. The industrial military complex is what Eisenhower warned the American public about. It needs war to feed itself, grow and expand, not unlike cancer. The states/industrial military complex decided at some point America should rule the world and up to the present it has not been a kind master. Interesting point here. I think nearly all the NATO nations are those who were colonizers in the past and those they are pitting themselves against are their old colonies. NATO has grown and is spreading and now it's on Russia's border. There is China as well who they have already defined as their number one enemy, surrounded with at least forty military bases with nuclear weapons. The American people are to the power elite, just cattle to be funneled to think and believe what they are told, praise the lord! Christian fascism!! Never mind, my country sucks up to America power better than most, Canada falls in line. As many countries that whored themselves to oppress the Vietnamese people are behind American aggression against Russia.

Then support Russian aggression by all means. We'll see how long the honeymoon lasts.

Sometimes things are really simple, and yet, some fail to grasp the obvious, like who is on whose border. Are the Chinese aggressive with forty or more American military bases surrounding them and equipped with nuclear weapon. You're a Yanky Doodle Dandy me thinks, all other nations have no choice but wear black hats, a whore nation gets a grey one.

Very true! Like those whose arguments are completely one-sided, with one always mentioned as completely bad while the other is barely mentioned at all, in spite of there being so much more to say. Yours is a perspective on history so single-minded and unbalanced you can't possibly claim to know anything about history which has to take all sides and conditions into consideration.

[popeye1945]

Then support Russian aggression by all means. We'll see how long the honeymoon lasts.

Sometimes things are really simple, and yet, some fail to grasp the obvious, like who is on whose border. Are the Chinese aggressive with forty or more American military bases surrounding them and equipped with nuclear weapon. You're a Yanky Doodle Dandy me thinks, all other nations have no choice but wear black hats, a whore nation gets a grey one.

Very true! Like those whose arguments are completely one-sided, with one always mentioned as completely bad while the other is barely mentioned at all, in spite of there being so much more to say. Yours is a perspective on history so single-minded and unbalanced you can't possibly claim to know anything about history which has to take all sides and conditions into consideration.

Would you have had that same recommendation in 1939 Germany as the Nazi's burned Jewish stores and murdered their people, crystal night. There is only one side that is righteous in the face of those hell-bent on world domination, whether that be overt or covert. Interesting though that Russia saved all our asses in World War two. Now Germany is sending tanks to the Ukraine effort, that is a little more than bad taste. The middle of the road is not always a winning formula, sometimes you just get run over. With the shifting power in the world and the vulnerable America dollar about to be brought down, this wasn't foreseen by the American power elite. More than half the world is saying enough America and no more.

[Dubious]

Sometimes things are really simple, and yet, some fail to grasp the obvious, like who is on whose border. Are the Chinese aggressive with forty or more American military bases surrounding them and equipped with nuclear weapon. You're a Yanky Doodle Dandy me thinks, all other nations have no choice but wear black hats, a whore nation gets a grey one.

Very true! Like those whose arguments are completely one-sided, with one always mentioned as completely bad while the other is barely mentioned at all, in spite of there being so much more to say. Yours is a perspective on history so single-minded and unbalanced you can't possibly claim to know anything about history which has to take all sides and conditions into consideration.

Would you have had that same recommendation in 1939 Germany as the Nazi's burned Jewish stores and murdered their people, crystal night. There is only one side that is righteous in the face of those hell-bent on world domination, whether that be overt or covert. Interesting though that Russia saved all our asses in World War two. Now Germany is sending tanks to the Ukraine effort, that is a little more than bad taste. The middle of the road is not always a winning formula, sometimes you just get run over. With the shifting power in the world and the vulnerable America dollar about to be brought down, this wasn't foreseen by the American power elite. More than half the world is saying enough America and no more.

Russia saved itself with a lot of help from the West. It certainly did not save our asses. Putin too is of the opinion that Germany sending tanks to Ukraine is in bad taste. The two of you have a lot in common. I guess compared to bad old Germany, Putin is the good guy justified in the crimes committed against his neighbour; wouldn't you agree?

Also, there is no such thing as an invulnerable currency including the American buck. Eventually it will be replaced but not for a long time since it remains the go to currency whenever the global economy falters. The question then is will it be one of the currencies existing now or will it be based on a completely new paradigm?

Your hatred of the West is truly sickening! Why not move to Russia, a land more sinned against than sinning, the West, of course, being the sinners? But that begs the question, why are so many Russians eager and desperate to leave the old homeland, ashamed of what it has become under Putin.

[Gary Childress]

Sometimes things are really simple, and yet, some fail to grasp the obvious, like who is on whose border. Are the Chinese aggressive with forty or more American military bases surrounding them and equipped with nuclear weapon. You're a Yanky Doodle Dandy me thinks, all other nations have no choice but wear black hats, a whore nation gets a grey one.

Very true! Like those whose arguments are completely one-sided, with one always mentioned as completely bad while the other is barely mentioned at all, in spite of there being so much more to say. Yours is a perspective on history so single-minded and unbalanced you can't possibly claim to know anything about history which has to take all sides and conditions into consideration.

Would you have had that same recommendation in 1939 Germany as the Nazi's burned Jewish stores and murdered their people, crystal night. There is only one side that is righteous in the face of those hell-bent on world domination, whether that be overt or covert. Interesting though that Russia saved all our asses in World War two. Now Germany is sending tanks to the Ukraine effort, that is a little more than bad taste. The middle of the road is not always a winning formula, sometimes you just get run over. With the shifting power in the world and the vulnerable America dollar about to be brought down, this wasn't foreseen by the American power elite. More than half the world is saying enough America and no more.

Well, if the Biden administration is the 21st-century embodiment of the spirit of the Nazis, then I'd be interested in seeing how that analogy works. It seems to me that the administration has made some very considerable concessions toward those on the left who talk a great deal about racial justice, gender equality, economic justice, and such. I mean, if you're from Canada, I have to wonder what we've done to Canada that is so horrible and unconscionable as to make you think we're the moral equivalents of the Fourth Reich or whatever and that Russia is entirely justified in invading Ukraine. It almost sounds like some kind of personal angle is clouding your judgment or something. Maybe I'm wrong.

I mean, I'm no fan of our leadership either but I don't think I'd go as far as to say that the Biden administration is the embodiment of evil. We have at least one living former president (Bush Jr.) and maybe some members of his administration right now who likely deserve to be extradited to Geneva for some serious trials as war criminals. Other than that, the last serious offenders (Bush Sr. and Reagan) are dead and buried. Clinton wasn't ideal either but at least his worst exploit, Somalia, was a semi-half-baked PR attempt to appear ostensibly like good guys who were going to bring food, peace, and stability to a country overrun by warlords. Ridiculous all the same but not up there with the bold faced atrocities of the Bushes and Reagan.

[Gary Childress]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... eb99ec6bd0

To be honest, perhaps we should allow our military to fade into insignificance. Perhaps it will teach us to favor diplomacy more. Perhaps China would take the lead. However, how long would they be able to keep the lead before militarism degrades their culture and economy also? Wouldn't it be better to just bury the hatchet and for all nations to work more cooperatively toward peaceful prosperity?

What do others think? Is it time to put militarism out to the pasture and have more faith in diplomacy and humanity? Fuck militarism. Fuck fearmongering.

Your idea has merit only if all the main powers default to diplomacy. If not - which has long been our current state of managing geopolitics - having any Western nation - the U.S. especially - unilaterally rescind its military would be devastation for the West. Working toward greater cooperation and prosperity would be the unquestioned global solution, but the realpolitik at this time, and possibly for more years to come, will tragically not permit it. In that case, one has to ensure that one's fist can hit with at least equal but preferably greater force than that of its adversaries who are aware of the consequences. Unfortunately, it looks like the wimpy West is in danger of losing any advantage it once had. Who knows what the status quo will be in the coming years. It's not far-fetched that the East will eventually end up controlling most of the planet. There are a lot of idiots in our hemisphere who think that's a good thing!

Hey, maybe it's a matter of a leap of faith. Russia, N. Korea, and that gang seem to think of the US as an ever-present threat as an invader and an aggressor. I can't say that fear is entirely unjustified given the horrible foreign policy of many past administrations. Maybe if we throttle down, they'll stop rattling their swords. I just think the powers that be in American politics need to stop relying on military might as a first go-to resort. Maybe just keep a standing army on par with that of Russia and China and some nukes as a deterrent and leave it at that. From there focus on economics and diplomacy. Let other nations do their thing and when someone gets out of line, rely on the UN and international opinion to dominate the matter. Let good deeds form the impression that other nations have of us.

If nothing else, seriously, make an example of the G.W. Bush administration. Those clowns did more to fuck up the world than any administration still living. Maybe throw in a few holdovers from the Bush Sr. and Reagan administrations, if any still have a pulse. It's time to identify at least some of the real criminals in the US. That and scale back the funding of the US intelligence community. They have as much relevance as the KGB. And given their "intelligence collecting" record over the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, they are nothing but a liability to a truly free world. If they're going to fuck up that bad, then we're better off without them. It's better to rely blindly on goodwill and a sound heart than let a pack of incompetent assholes with a way overinflated sense of self-importance lead us into committing one atrocity after another.

[Alexis Jacobi]

To be honest, perhaps we should allow our military to fade into insignificance. Perhaps it will teach us to favor diplomacy more. Perhaps China would take the lead. However, how long would they be able to keep the lead before militarism degrades their culture and economy also? Wouldn't it be better to just bury the hatchet and for all nations to work more cooperatively toward peaceful prosperity?

I believe that I do understand that your position is something 'felt' but not really thought-through. So what you often say seems to me emotionalized statements by an uncertain man.

But there are other perspectives that are much more developed and not based in what is 'felt' -- but in a more developed historical perspective.

I found myself captivated when watching this interview with Stephen Kotkin. Here he touches on the Ukrainian situation, and also Taiwan, but from a 'historical' if also an openly pro-West position that, in some aspects, opposes the popular position of non-involvement.

It might interest you. And also for those who have been involved in this thread and this issue.

[popeye1945]

Very true! Like those whose arguments are completely one-sided, with one always mentioned as completely bad while the other is barely mentioned at all, in spite of there being so much more to say. Yours is a perspective on history so single-minded and unbalanced you can't possibly claim to know anything about history which has to take all sides and conditions into consideration.

Would you have had that same recommendation in 1939 Germany as the Nazi's burned Jewish stores and murdered their people, crystal night. There is only one side that is righteous in the face of those hell-bent on world domination, whether that be overt or covert. Interesting though that Russia saved all our asses in World War two. Now Germany is sending tanks to the Ukraine effort, that is a little more than bad taste. The middle of the road is not always a winning formula, sometimes you just get run over. With the shifting power in the world and the vulnerable America dollar about to be brought down, this wasn't foreseen by the American power elite. More than half the world is saying enough America and no more.

Russia saved itself with a lot of help from the West. It certainly did not save our asses. Putin too is of the opinion that Germany sending tanks to Ukraine is in bad taste. The two of you have a lot in common. I guess compared to bad old Germany, Putin is the good guy justified in the crimes committed against his neighbour; wouldn't you agree?

Also, there is no such thing as an invulnerable currency including the American buck. Eventually it will be replaced but not for a long time since it remains the go to currency whenever the global economy falters. The question then is will it be one of the currencies existing now or will it be based on a completely new paradigm?

Your hatred of the West is truly sickening! Why not move to Russia, a land more sinned against than sinning, the West, of course, being the sinners? But that begs the question, why are so many Russians eager and desperate to leave the old homeland, ashamed of what it has become under Putin.

Love it or leave it, I can see your intellectual sparks from all the way over here- - - lol!! brilliant!!!