How can propagation of spiritual knowledge lead to control of sin in a country?

[dattaswami]

How can propagation of spiritual knowledge lead to control of sin in a country, when history has proved that the association of religion or spirituality with science, law, development or governance has only led to complications and problems?

[Sin or corruption cannot be controlled in religion-dominated countries, even with strict laws. In fact, selfish religious leaders abuse the innocent public in the name of religion. Those in power do the sinful activities openly without fear, and the rest of the public does the sinful activities in secret due to fear. Whenever, religion has been associated with any field such as science, law or development, it has only led to problems. Hence, it is best not to allow religion or spirituality dominates in any country.]

Swami Replied: Do you think that the sin is absent in a non-religious and non-spiritual country? Moreover, such non-religious country does not exist in this world at any time. The percentage of atheists in any country is very small. Your concept is practically impossible. Even then, let Me examine the truth in your concept. Are you sure that the atheists in any country are fully ethical and the theists are non-ethical?

In fact, the possibility of the growth of non-ethical path is more in the case of atheists. The atheist does not fear for God and fears only for the police and courts. If he escapes these two systems, he has escaped totally the punishment and there is no need of any fear further. The theist also can escape police and courts in the same way but still fears for God, who is omniscient and punishment is inevitable due to His omnipotence. Such fear never arises in the mind of atheist. Exploiting the society to selfish ends is common in both religious theists and non-religious atheists.

But, in the case of theists, the concept of ultimate God and the ultimate punishment can control the sin completely in the case of some theists, which can bring at least the partial control in the other theists. The atheist hides his sin perfectly since that is the ultimate step to escape the punishment forever. In the case of theists, the fear for God and the divine punishment is always burning in his heart and due to this, the theist fails to hide his sin perfectly.

Hence, you are seeing the exposed sin of theists and you are not seeing even a trace of the hidden sin of the atheist. Spiritual knowledge is the essence of all the religions and not certain misinterpreted traditions existing in religions. Due to such excellent advantage, the religions are alive in this universe due to the divine will of God.

[Age]

What does the word 'sin' mean or refer to, EXACTLY?

[dattaswami]

What does the word 'sin' mean or refer to, EXACTLY?

One shall avoid the following vices::


There are six vices, which are 1) illegal sex (kama), 2) violence (krodha), 3) greediness (corruption of money), 4) fascination (moha), 5) Ego (mada) and 6) jealousy (maatsarya). The first three affect other souls and hence are considered to be strong sins or main gates to the hell as per the Gita. The latter three are not serious in case others are not affected.

Illegal sex with some soul pains its life partner to a very deep extent. Violence to kill living beings for food and killing people for various reasons like rowdyism or terrorism is the greatest sin. Earning unlawful money by exploiting others is also a very serious sin since the affected persons suffer a lot.

Out of these six vices, the first three are very serious leading the soul certainly to hell since these three sins are harming others. The latter three sins do not lead to hell provided there is no damage to others. If you have fascination to world, you need not go to hell if your fascination to your wife/husband or issues or money does not harm others. Similarly, your ego will not take you to hell as long as your ego doesn’t hurt others.
Similarly, your jealousy towards others will not give any punishment in hell if it is not harming others. Sometimes, jealousy also helps you in your development. If you examine the first three sins, your anger/violence will certainly damage others. Similarly, your greediness for money is resulting in corruption by which you are stealing others’ money by which others suffer. Similarly, your illegal sex will certainly cause suffering to others.
When Dharmaraja asked his grandfather, Bhishma, about the essence of justice, Bhishma replied that the essence of justice is that one should not do that to others, which, if is done by others to him results in hurting himself. Therefore, the criminal nature of the sin resulting in punishment is always due to only damage done by yourself to others. Hence, God in the Gita mentioned that only these three sins are the main gates to hell, which are violence, financial corruption and illegal sex.
The foremost sin is violence to kill other living beings for the sake of food or some other personal grudge. God Brahma becomes furious by this sin because He alone is the authority to grant longevity. When you do not have power to give life to a killed living being, you do not have any right to kill any living being. The death sentence given by a judge should be ultimate. It means that before implementing death sentence to a living being, you should give several chances to the soul for rectification of sin by reformation.

Reformation is the real aim of any punishment and not vengeance. You are hanging a person to death for the only reason that the criminal may kill another human being. If reformation is achieved and the sin is not practically repeated, there is no need of punishment. Similarly, killing a living being for food is the top most level of this first sin. You must always imagine that you are captured by a demon, which is going to eat you!

Whatever agony you feel in that time and during the time of cutting your body by the jaws of the demon, the same agony is felt by that living being, being killed for the sake of your food! God Brahma represents the quality of Rajas and the anger in violence is also due to Rajas only. This is the qualitative link.
The second type of sin is stealing by cheating or robbing others money by force. Money is Goddess Lakshmi and hence this type of sin makes God Vishnu to become furious. Today, almost everyone is a victim of corruption. Before cheating somebody for the sake of money, you should analyse the damage done to others especially poor people.

You must at least avoid corruption in the case of poor people. If you rob the wealth of a sinner, that money should not be enjoyed by yourself and your family members. That should be spent to serve the beggars or should be spent for spiritual purpose.

You may digest even most dangerous poison but not the sinful money, which will destroy yourself and your family. It is said that the sinful money earned by you comes like a railway engine to carry away by linking with your earned money through justice also, which is like a series of compartments standing on the track by the side of a platform (Anyaayenaarjitam vittam sahamoolam vinashyati).

Vishnu stands for the quality of Sattvam, which is knowledge and analysis. You must analyze carefully whenever you earn or spend money. Most of the people spend money in the way that leads them to hell only. Expenditure or donation of money also leads you to hell. Everybody is spending lot of money on functions donating to relatives and friends, who have enough food in their homes.

You spend lot of money on a function due to your desire to expose yourself based on ego. You deny food to a beggar dying with hunger. You calculate to give food to a devotee or spiritual preacher coming to your house, who helps you in elevating your spiritual knowledge or devotion.
Money is never wasted because its expenditure will either bring good (Punyam) or bad (Paapam). Even if you throw money into river to call it as wastage, such act is also a sin. Hence, you should be very careful with deep analysis while earning or spending money.

[Age]

What does the word 'sin' mean or refer to, EXACTLY?

One shall avoid the following vices::

There are six vices,

To WHO, EXACTLY?

which are 1) illegal sex (kama),

So, according to "dattaswami" and your so-called "logic" here, what is a so-called 'sin' in one country or culture is PERFECTLY legal and NOT a 'sin' in another country or culture. So, how does one KNOW what is ABSOLUTELY a 'sin' from what is ABSOLUTE NOT a 'sin'.

Also, and by the way, you the WAY you are LOOKING AT 'things' and 'sins' here is, by definition, SIN, ITSELF.

But anyway,

2) violence (krodha),

How do you define 'violence'?

3) greediness (corruption of money),

The words 'corruption of money' does NOT make sense and therefore is just NONSENSICAL.

'Money', used to just be coins with numbers on them, then paper, and then plastic, with numbers on them, and then just numbers on a computer screen, and NONE of these 'things', themselves, can be nor become corrupted. Corruption can only happen within the head of human beings. It is only the 'thinking' within human bodies that get 'corrupted', which by the way it is only adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, who ARE GREEDY, and ALL adults who were GREEDY.

Greedy is just in relation to WANTING more of what one does NOT NEED in Life.

4) fascination (moha),

What is 'fascination', to you, EXACTLY?

I am FASCINATED to LEARN and KNOW the views and perspectives from within that body. Does this MAKE 'me' SINNING here?

5) Ego (mada)

So, what 'you' ARE, EXACTLY, is SIN, correct?

Or, do you BELIEVE there is NO 'ego' in that body there?

and 6) jealousy (maatsarya).

'jealousy' in regards to what, EXACTLY?

If one is 'jealous' because they see "others" NOT getting ABUSED, while they ARE, then is it a SIN to be 'jealous' of 'this'?

If no, then WHY NOT?

But, if yes, then WHY?

The first three affect other souls and hence are considered to be strong sins or main gates to the hell as per the Gita.

Considered by WHO, EXACTLY?

The latter three are not serious in case others are not affected.

Serious in relation to WHAT, EXACTLY?

Illegal sex with some soul pains its life partner to a very deep extent.

There are SO MANY 'things' TO CONSIDER here, as well as TO CONSIDER what those 'things' are in relation to, EXACTLY, BEFORE I could even CONSIDER what questions to ask that would be most suited here. So, I MIGHT get back to you on this MOST ABSURD, on first glance, comment of yours here.

Violence to kill living beings for food and killing people for various reasons like rowdyism or terrorism is the greatest sin. Earning unlawful money by exploiting others is also a very serious sin since the affected persons suffer a lot.

Do you realize that you are coming across as just getting more and more ABSURD as we continue here?

Out of these six vices, the first three are very serious leading the soul certainly to hell since these three sins are harming others. The latter three sins do not lead to hell provided there is no damage to others. If you have fascination to world, you need not go to hell if your fascination to your wife/husband or issues or money does not harm others. Similarly, your ego will not take you to hell as long as your ego doesn’t hurt others.
Similarly, your jealousy towards others will not give any punishment in hell if it is not harming others. Sometimes, jealousy also helps you in your development. If you examine the first three sins, your anger/violence will certainly damage others. Similarly, your greediness for money is resulting in corruption by which you are stealing others’ money by which others suffer. Similarly, your illegal sex will certainly cause suffering to others.
When Dharmaraja asked his grandfather, Bhishma, about the essence of justice, Bhishma replied that the essence of justice is that one should not do that to others, which, if is done by others to him results in hurting himself. Therefore, the criminal nature of the sin resulting in punishment is always due to only damage done by yourself to others. Hence, God in the Gita mentioned that only these three sins are the main gates to hell, which are violence, financial corruption and illegal sex.
The foremost sin is violence to kill other living beings for the sake of food or some other personal grudge. God Brahma becomes furious by this sin because He alone is the authority to grant longevity. When you do not have power to give life to a killed living being, you do not have any right to kill any living being. The death sentence given by a judge should be ultimate. It means that before implementing death sentence to a living being, you should give several chances to the soul for rectification of sin by reformation.

Reformation is the real aim of any punishment and not vengeance. You are hanging a person to death for the only reason that the criminal may kill another human being. If reformation is achieved and the sin is not practically repeated, there is no need of punishment. Similarly, killing a living being for food is the top most level of this first sin. You must always imagine that you are captured by a demon, which is going to eat you!

Whatever agony you feel in that time and during the time of cutting your body by the jaws of the demon, the same agony is felt by that living being, being killed for the sake of your food! God Brahma represents the quality of Rajas and the anger in violence is also due to Rajas only. This is the qualitative link.
The second type of sin is stealing by cheating or robbing others money by force. Money is Goddess Lakshmi and hence this type of sin makes God Vishnu to become furious. Today, almost everyone is a victim of corruption. Before cheating somebody for the sake of money, you should analyse the damage done to others especially poor people.

You must at least avoid corruption in the case of poor people. If you rob the wealth of a sinner, that money should not be enjoyed by yourself and your family members. That should be spent to serve the beggars or should be spent for spiritual purpose.

You may digest even most dangerous poison but not the sinful money, which will destroy yourself and your family. It is said that the sinful money earned by you comes like a railway engine to carry away by linking with your earned money through justice also, which is like a series of compartments standing on the track by the side of a platform (Anyaayenaarjitam vittam sahamoolam vinashyati).

Vishnu stands for the quality of Sattvam, which is knowledge and analysis. You must analyze carefully whenever you earn or spend money. Most of the people spend money in the way that leads them to hell only. Expenditure or donation of money also leads you to hell. Everybody is spending lot of money on functions donating to relatives and friends, who have enough food in their homes.

You spend lot of money on a function due to your desire to expose yourself based on ego. You deny food to a beggar dying with hunger. You calculate to give food to a devotee or spiritual preacher coming to your house, who helps you in elevating your spiritual knowledge or devotion.
Money is never wasted because its expenditure will either bring good (Punyam) or bad (Paapam). Even if you throw money into river to call it as wastage, such act is also a sin. Hence, you should be very careful with deep analysis while earning or spending money.

I have NOT read the rest fully because on a quick glance you appear to NOT have answered the ACTUAL QUESTION I posed and asked you ANYWHERE here.

From what I can ascertain here you think or BELIEVE that 'sin' means when one is avoiding six vices.

Which would mean that when one is 'sinning' they now are avoiding doing what is considered 'wrong', by some.

Which seems Truly ABSURD and NONSENSICAL.

[dattaswami]

One shall avoid the following vices::

There are six vices,

To WHO, EXACTLY?

If one of the partner in legally married couple do illegal sex with a third person it will pain the other partner. Hence it is a sin.

[dattaswami]

2) violence (krodha),

How do you define 'violence'?

[/quote]

Harming a good person is violence.

[dattaswami]

The words 'corruption of money' does NOT make sense and therefore is just NONSENSICAL.

'Money', used to just be coins with numbers on them, then paper, and then plastic, with numbers on them, and then just numbers on a computer screen, and NONE of these 'things', themselves, can be nor become corrupted. Corruption can only happen within the head of human beings. It is only the 'thinking' within human bodies that get 'corrupted', which by the way it is only adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, who ARE GREEDY, and ALL adults who were GREEDY.

The money of the public is the wealth of the public, which should be spent for public only giving priority to the poor people.

This public money is very sacred and should not be enjoyed personally by any well-to-do person, unless he/she is extremely poor dying for food. One has to save the life even by doing the sin. In such a case, the sin is not a sin at all. Apart from this extreme condition, any attempt to steal the public money for the enjoyment of self and own family is the greatest sin. If one has livelihood already blessed by God, he/she should see the public money as the excretory matter.

Nobody likes even to look at the excretory matter and in such case, there is no chance of any one to eat the excretory matter and to live always in the excretory matter itself! Therefore, everybody having the minimum needs satisfied should see the public money like excretion. Nobody should even look at the public money and not to speak of the thought to enjoy it. Anybody, who does the corruption of public money, will born as pig eating the excretion. More serious corruption of public money gives the birth of worms living in the excretion itself. You may argue that such enjoyment of excretion by pigs and worms need not be taken as the punishment because the pigs and worms enjoy the excretion like a human being enjoying a good feast. The ignorance of the previous birth of the soul as human being should make the soul to enjoy the excretion like a human being enjoying delicious food.

The excretion for the pig should be like the delicious meal for an ordinary hungry person, if the ignorance of the previous birth masks the soul. This is correct if the pig is unaware of its previous birth. But, the actual fact is totally different since the pig or the worm eating the excretion is given the memory of the previous birth always by the will of God. Now, the soul realizes the difference between delicious food and wretched excretion and is pained deeply with full repentance being forced by the power of God to eat the excretion continuously along with the constant memory of the previous birth.
Such a mental torture brings some realization in the soul at least after some births. This will bring a powerful change and thus the punishment is only to bring a significant change in the soul and not to revenge against the soul for its sin. The punishment involves lot of internally hidden technique so that the punishment is only for the transformation of the soul and not for the revenge. This horrible punishment is considered to be the climax of the list of punishments. The soul subjected to such terrible punishment is almost sure not to return to the human birth again.

The question asked by you was exactly expressed by Me to Lord Dattatreya about ten years back. The Lord gave the above reply, which is presented here word by word. The Lord also showed Me the vision of such births, which showed the corrupt people on the left side and their souls becoming pigs and worms eating and dwelling in the excretion on the right side. I was so much irritated by that ghastly vision and suffered with illness for a long time, which was based on allergy. The illness was so serious increasing day by day and I thought that My death was very near. That wretched vision came to My brain again and again. Then, I prayed the Lord for protection through several prayers. The Lord appeared and touched Me with both hands from top to bottom smiling and saying that the answer is so as the question is. The Lord said that His knowledge is always characterized by the foremost quality called as truth as said in the Veda (Satyam, Jnanam...). Truth cannot be altered since it is harsh.

I did not reveal this topic till now thinking that I should not harm the health of anybody. But, the Lord is forcing Me from inside to reveal the truth as revealed by Him to Me in the past. Since I cannot resist the force of the Lord, I am revealing. The Lord also says the reason for His force. The Lord says that the reason is that today the corruption for money spread even an atomic area of the creation. You also asked Me this question by His will only. We both are like the two sides of the drum alternatively beaten by the two hands of the Lord. Today, you made Me to expose the highest secret so far hidden by Me. The Lord also asks Me that this message should be translated into every language of the world and a print of this message should be kept on the notice board of the office of every public servant from top to bottom level. If anybody is affected by the allergy, I advise him to use the anti-allergic medicines immediately. I am extremely sorry for revealing this truth and I ask for the apology from everybody.

Repentance followed by non-repetition of the sin certainly cancels the sin as per the divine offer given by God in this Kaliyuga. Remember that this offer did not exist in the previous 3 Yugas. But, there is an extra step involved in the sin of corruption for money. The sins are of two types: 1) the sin that can be cancelled by repentance and subsequent non-repetition. This type of sin has no possibility of rectification of the past sin already done. Ex: Ravana killed the bird Jataayu. He cannot give life to this bird after repentance. This sin is non-rectifiable. In this sin, repentance and non-repetition of the sin can cancel the past sin and here the total reformation is completed by these two steps only. 2) This type of sin is rectifiable with respect to the past sin. Therefore, repentance followed by rectification of the past sin and subsequently non-repetition of the similar sin can alone cancel the past sin. This type of sin involves three steps to burn the sin. Ex: Ravana stole Sita. This type of sin can be cancelled only by three steps. First is repentance of the sin done. Second is returning Sita to Rama. The third is not to repeat such a sin in the future.

The corruption for money belongs to this second type of sin. You must return the money already earned by you through corruption to the same person from whom you collected it. The Gita says the same (Tairdattanapradaayaibhyo...Gita). The Veda says that while returning the money, you must analyse and you should not be blind in simply returning back the money (Samvidaadeyam). If the person from whom you collected the money is rich and bad, you need not return the money to him blindly to maintain the general norms of accounting. You should spend such money for the sake of good and poor people. A bad poor person can be helped in terms of material like food, clothes, medicines and shelter but not in terms of cash, which will be misused by him. Another situation of analysis is that, suppose you are not taking the money from a bad rich fellow by corruption, some other officer may take the same amount and use it personally. In such case, it is better that you should take the money through corruption and spend it in the above said right way. All this can be known only by the special knowledge called 'Samvit'.

Don't donate the sinful money to the persons, who are already corrupt. You should donate this sinful money to good people only, who can spend that money in the proper way. Otherwise, if the returned money is misused by the undeserving persons, the sin will not leave you. You must take the responsibility in returning the sinful money for good cause and cannot leave the responsibility to others, who may misuse. You have to take all the pains in relinquishing your responsibility in proper way since the sin is done personally by you only.

The first hymn of the first EeshavaasyaUpanishat of the first Rugveda says that you should not steal other's money, which speaks about the corruption only. By this, you can understand the importance given by the Veda to this most serious sin. It also says that you should enjoy the money associated with sacrifice to deserving receivers (Tenatyaktena...). The Veda also says that sacrifice of money alone is the practical philosophy that leads you to God (DhanenaTyagena). In the Gita, the Lord says everywhere that you should sacrifice the fruit of your work to Him. The essence of all these statement of scriptures is that i) you should avoid the corruption of money everywhere and prevent yourself in doing the sin. ii) If you have already committed the sin, rectification of the sin by returning it as said above should be done. iii) You should return the money to angels given by them to you (the Gita).

This means that the angels are none but good people in this world. It means that you should never steal the money of a good person especially if he is poor. iv) When you donate to God, it should be the fruit of your hard work, which is the most pious money to be given to the most pious God. At least, it can be the money given by your parents (MadhyamamPituraarjitam). v) Donating money to the angels means donating the money to the devotees doing divine work of propagating the right spiritual knowledge so that the entire society gets rectified. This can be the already earned sinful money also since it is going to be spent for the rectification of the society only and the sinful money was collected from the society only.

All these points constitute the steps of sharp analysis, which are necessary before you decide your action as said in the Gita (Jnaatvaakurvita). Rectification of the past sin is very complicated and sharp analysis is a must before taking decisions resulting in actions. Errors in such rectification will lead you to further sin. The basic concept in the donation of your hard earned money or paternal money or earned sinful money is that the donation should be done to the deserving receiver only and not to undeserving receiver. Not donating to deserving receivers and donating to undeserving receivers – both are serious sins as said in the Mahabharata. Your analysis should be based on this fundamental point. Shriyantra means correct plan of the sacrifice of money, which alone leads you to heaven in Pravrutti or to God in Nivrutti. This is the real interpretation of the worship of Shriyantra. Ignorant people worship Shriyantra to earn more money even through unlawful ways!

In Kaliyuga, especially in the modern times, the corruption is spread everywhere and even the controlling agencies like Police, courts, etc., are also becoming corrupt. The basic reason for this chaos is that there is no inbuilt resistance to the sin in every citizen to be founded from the childhood through the education system. In the ancient days of Kaliyuga itself, the education system introduced by the Government (king or monarchy) contained lot of spiritual knowledge based on the concept of God, Heaven, hell, etc. Due to this inbuilt resistance, every citizen feared for God and hell to do the sin since the punishment from God can never be escaped. The present democratic government, especially in India, is spoiled due to the concept of secularism. The secularism is misunderstood as atheism so that no religion is favoured. It is actually strong theism favouring all the religions. Secularism means the universal spiritual knowledge present in all the religions. Secularism means taking the same medicine existing in different coloured bottles in small quantities from each bottle. But, today, the misunderstood secularism is not to take the medicine from any bottle!


The government following a specific religion as conservative is far better than such misunderstood secularism. Such conservative government maintains a single coloured bottle only containing the medicine. At least, it takes the medicine from that single bottle. Corruption in such countries having conservative governments is found at very minimum level.

Today, moral classes are introduced in the education system to very little extent. Morals are taught without the basic concept of God, Heaven and hell. Nobody likes to follow the morals if there is a chance to fool the courts. Morals are followed only for the fear of court punishments. If such punishments can be escaped by over intelligence, there is no loss at all in doing the sin and in such case also if the sin is not done it is mere foolishness! Instead, the concept of God as omniscient and the inevitable hell will control anybody to do the sin because over intelligence fails in the case of God. The ancient kings were very clever in developing the spiritual knowledge to large extent in the education system for creating the inbuilt resistance to the sin in every citizen from the childhood. Due to this, the sin became very rare and the controlling agencies were very few resulting in very smooth administration. In a large kingdom, there used to be a single court (Dharmasanam) in presence of the king since only very few cases of sin used to come from the entire kingdom.
The police departments were almost non-existent.

The reason was everybody feared to do the sin fearing for the omniscient and omnipotent God because even if you escape the court, you can never escape God. Therefore, the lack of place for spiritual knowledge in the education system is the main reason for such expansion of corruption. A specific course called philosophy exists, which can be taken by anybody if interested and we find very very few students only in such course! This is not correct. The philosophy or spiritual knowledge should be common to every student from L.K.G. to P.G. level since every citizen needs the inbuilt resistance to the sin. Introduction of the spiritual knowledge in the education system alone can bring a permanent solution, which is the fundamental rectification. People misunderstand that spiritual knowledge is limited to nivrutti (God & devotion etc.), which is the second part only. The first part of the spiritual knowledge is actually the pravrutti (social justice).You must remember that the Lord said in the Gita that He comes down to earth to establish pravrutti only (dharmasamsthaapanaarthaaya …).

[Walker]

Harming a good person is violence.

So clear. So true. This is something that can be remembered and relied upon when uncertain.

Once realized, the violence turns back upon its origin, and the violent one knows hell.

Thank you, dattaswami, for this spiritual guidance.

It may prevent: hell through ignorance.

*

Movies are the modern touchstone for examples.
They say the same thing with fewer words.


The Unforgiven

What a hell being says about mistreating animals …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X0044_jxFo

[Age]

One shall avoid the following vices::

There are six vices,

To WHO, EXACTLY?

If one of the partner in legally married couple do illegal sex with a third person it will pain the other partner. Hence it is a sin.

Yo MISUNDERSTOOD this question ALSO.

[Iwannaplato]

2) violence (krodha),

How do you define 'violence'?

Harming a good person is violence.

But you cannot possibly harm a good person, in the sense that if you manage to hurt them, they needed this lesson for past behavior.
(according to DS's version of Karma) You would merely be a tool for God and Karma
.
If you can harm a person who does not need that experience, then your idea of Karma is not correct.
If you cannot harm a person who does not need that experience of harm, then there is no problem.

And why is it only violence when it comes to good people? Are you saying violence against bad people is ok?

This sounds very much like you have a concern that one will harm someone who should not be harmed,
but
that is impossible since, as you have said many times, nothing bad can happen to someone unless it is punishment for prior sins.

And it is not for us to determine who is good or not, otherwise we might think child rape was unfair.

For anyone reading this and finding it strange, please investigate further DS's views on how any child being raped or harmed must have sinned in a past life and this is punishment now from God.

[Age]

2) violence (krodha),

How do you define 'violence'?

Harming a good person is violence.
[/quote]

So, to you, harming a so-called 'bad person' is NOT violence.

[Walker]

But you cannot possibly harm a good person, in the sense that if you manage to hurt them, they needed this lesson for past behavior.
(according to DS's version of Karma) You would merely be a tool for God and Karma

If you couldn't do harm, you wouldn't be much of harm tool, would you.

You're responsible for what you do.

Why you do what do it is your own affair, but you're responsible, even if you're The Manchurian Candidate, like Brandon.

In fact, that's one of the reasons for the saying, Life is Unfair.

You can't weasel out of being responsible for what you do, just because you intended the harm, and just because you did the harm.

That is a fundamental error of logic.

[Walker]

So, to you, harming a so-called 'bad person' is NOT violence.

Doing no harm is not violence. In some martial arts, the aim is to protect the attacker.

[Iwannaplato]

But you cannot possibly harm a good person, in the sense that if you manage to hurt them, they needed this lesson for past behavior.
(according to DS's version of Karma) You would merely be a tool for God and Karma

If you couldn't do harm, you wouldn't be much of harm tool, would you.

You're responsible for what you do.

Why you do what do it is your own affair, but you're responsible, even if you're The Manchurian Candidate, like Brandon.

In fact, that's one of the reasons for the saying, Life is Unfair.

You can't weasel out of being responsible for what you do, just because you intended the harm, and just because you did the harm.

That is a fundamental error of logic.

You're missing the point. And note I did not say anything about not being responsible. I understand that my talking about being a tool for God or Karma might imply that was the issue for me, but it's not. Notice that here he says violence is harming a good person. It should read. Violence is harming anyone. Notice what he says elsewhere about responding to injustice with justice.

But the primary problem here is that our judgment of whether a person is good or not is irrelevant. That just leaves the barn door wide open. Well, he was a bad guy. No, that contradicts all sorts of things DS has said and a good teacher would notice this.

With his version of Karma you cannot harm a good person. It is not possible. It is ruled out. If you are harmed, you deserved it. Even if you are a baby who is raped.

I am not looking for a moral get out of jail card. I am not looking for some way to do harm to good people.

I am pointing out that his own version of Karma precludes the possibility of harming a good person. If they are harmed, they needed that experiences as punishment for past sins. In his version of Karma.

And he is so committed to this version of Karma that even babies who are raped deserve that punishment. There is no room for mere harm in his system. It is always punishment for past sins. You cannot harm a good person. It cannot happen.

[dattaswami]

And why is it only violence when it comes to good people? Are you saying violence against bad people is ok?

If violence against bad people is not correct why a criminal is punished and beaten in jail? All cannot change by love and advice. If that is the case then what is the need of police and court in this world? Punishment is also for reformation only and not for revenge or vengeance.

If bad people are not punished then such bad people will harm good people and that will lead to chaos in this world. If somebody is harming a good person you shall try your maximum possible way to save that good person. If you are not capable of punishing that person physically you can contact police and police will take care of such people.