to grok society

[Advocate]

society = civilized nature
government = formalized society

[Agent Smith]

Society = Truce
Government = Peacemaker

[promethean75]

Society = Spook
Government = Spook

[Sculptor]

I see no groking here.

Civilisation; society based on the civitas. Slaves and wage slaves bound by dependencies of money to fulfil the wishes and needs of the rich and powerful.
Civilisation is slavery

[Sculptor]

Society = Truce
Government = Peacemaker

shockingly naive

[Agent Smith]

How true! What's your take on the issue? Me all eyes.

[promethean75]

If the question is aksing about the essential, reductive materialistic nature of an economic civilization, it is the experiment of putting a yuge group of people togther to have them compete for ways and opportunities to reproduce and acquire property while laboring the least to do so becuz who wants to work. 

Two words. Hiztorical Materializm.

[Agent Smith]

There's this person ... s/he has it all figured out! Before you ask me any relevant questions, I'd like to say that the last time I met him/her s/he didn't give me his/her phone number and no, s/he didn't give me her card.

[Impenitent]

867-5309

-Imp

[Walker]

If the question is aksing about the essential, reductive materialistic nature of an economic civilization, it is the experiment of putting a yuge group of people togther to have them compete for ways and opportunities to reproduce and acquire property while laboring the least to do so becuz who wants to work. 

Two words. Hiztorical Materializm.

Society creates time to specialize in education, training, and application. That way, not everyone needs to learn brain surgery in order to stay alive, stay alive. Because they deal directly with prolonging life, the brain surgeons’ reward from society is amongst the greatest, because as we all now know, life is the measure of all things, including the measure of one’s intrinsic value to society made tangible via remuneration. This is why with life as the measure, burger flippers are usually near the low end of the wage scale, unless government steps in and tampers with a minimum wage requirement, and steps in with the creation of a shadow of economy that consists of pumping millions of illegals into the labour market, so that good ol' boy contributors to The Party can save a dime or two on manpower, and womanpower, which is usually one of their greatest production costs, unless the good ol' boys buy slaves.

[promethean75]

"the brain surgeons’ reward from society is amongst the greatest"

and not just because life is so dear, but because of what is invested in his/her education and training. not necessarily that the brain surgeon is a special kind of person; most average to above bright IQs could be a brain surgeon with the proper education and training. however no... a burger flipper would never make as much as a brain surgeon in any society with a lick of sense.

about the minimum wage and the government tampering thing... hey, that's a creation of your liberal welfare-state capitalist economies, not anything Marxist... but i know the title 'leftist' doesn't necessarily mean Marxist qua marxism.

As a rule of thumb you can count most anything the hard right says about Marxism and describes as Marxist as in fact a version and instance of centrist capitalism, right?

If the democrat party is socialist, then all things socialist aren't Marxist, and the democrats aren't Marxist socialists.

If socialism must exclude free-market, then democrats aren't socialist either.

You really have to mince werdz here Luke ForumWalker. Don't let Mannie or Hannity or Henry mislead you with their anti Marxist party slogans.

[Walker]

"the brain surgeons’ reward from society is amongst the greatest"

and not just because life is so dear, but because of what is invested in his/her education and training. not necessarily that the brain surgeon is a special kind of person; most average to above bright IQs could be a brain surgeon with the proper education and training. however no... a burger flipper would never make as much as a brain surgeon in any society with a lick of sense.

about the minimum wage and the government tampering thing... hey, that's a creation of your liberal welfare-state capitalist economies, not anything Marxist... but i know the title 'leftist' doesn't necessarily mean Marxist qua marxism.

As a rule of thumb you can count most anything the hard right says about Marxism and describes as Marxist as in fact a version and instance of centrist capitalism, right?

If the democrat party is socialist, then all things socialist aren't Marxist, and the democrats aren't Marxist socialists.

If socialism must exclude free-market, then democrats aren't socialist either.

You really have to mince werdz here Luke ForumWalker. Don't let Mannie or Hannity or Henry mislead you with their anti Marxist party slogans.

I like that. Consider though, the objective is the essence. Keep distilling towards the essence beyond those labels of Marxism, or socialism, or democracy, republic, free markets, regulations, etc., and what it boils down to is: Good vs. Evil. Since everyone knows wrong from right, the complexity is found in all the rationalizations.