Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmAlso, what would you supposedly be more convinced of here, exactly?
Now, if you would like me to explain, in detail, exactly how and why you are 'wrong', then I suggest you ask a clarifying question, and be as specific as you can be. Then that way less confusion will prevail.
I don't care what is called "wrong" without the reasons and beliefs why and how it is wrong.
Okay. So, without any clarifying question asked, then there is literally absolutely nothing to answer, thus nor to clarify here.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmAlso, what is 'it', exactly, which is stopping you doing from what you say and claim you know you should or ought to be doing?
Lack of motivation—motivations change frequently in life.
Okay. I agree absolutely.
Also, a lack of motivation to do what is Right and/or good, as can be clearly seen here, is just one of the many consequences of having been brought up in an abusive environment as a child.
Which makes doing only what is Right, and good, so much more important.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmIs 'it' further logical, sound, and valid 'advice', or rather illogical, unsound, and/or invalid 'advice', which you are actually listening to and following?
It would be logical and sound advice, but not completely valid. Validity ought to take into account conflicting motivations when suggesting what a person 'ought' to do. Thus, it would be pointless to give people proscriptions, advice, and recommendations that they will not actually follow through with. It's a waste of time of the prescriber and the receiver. Ideally, suggestions should coincide with somebody open to suggestion, and is willing to obey or be commanded, to the point he/she can change daily behaviors and habit.
But you have just said, and shown, that even you 'talking to' "your" own 'self' has absolutely no bearing at all, on you.
you have just shown with your 'lack of motivation' you will not listen to what is logical, sound, nor valid, but will listen to, and follow, what you tell "yourself" that is illogical, unsound, and/or invalid.
So, even suggestions with one who is open to suggestion can all happen within one body.
I found that it is the words used, within one own body, which have the greatest and most remarkable effect on life and 'the world', itself. That is; what you human beings say to "yourselves" within those human bodies, have far more power and influence than what was yet noticed and recognized, in the days when this is being written,
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmOkay, you are absolutely free to choose to do, or not do, absolutely whatever you like, right?
Correct.
At least 'we' agree on and accept 'this'.
So, now, it would not matter what absolutely any one said to you, which obviously includes me, here you will choose, freely, to who and what you listen to, and follow, right?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmOkay, do you have any idea when we will see about 'that'?
Within a month or year.
Okay, so within a month or a year 'we' will see about whether there are no, alleged, unknown and chaotic areas of existence to me, correct?
If no, then please correct me here.
But, if this is correct, then I am not sure how this will play out.
To me, there are no unknown and chaotic areas of existence, so what could possibly change this within a year?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmBut by definition the word 'seem' means or at least implies that what 'seems' to be true is not necessarily true at all, right?
Or do you see and view things differently here?
I don't know if you have any Theocratic Authority yet, any ability to speak coherently and accurately about God-concepts.
You follow conversations and debates; I've not seen you
lead any yet. If you have something to say about God, then by all means do so, in the correct thread and context. This thread is about Free-Will.
Are you not aware that I here just asked you to clarify whether you already knew that if something 'seems' to be true, then it is not necessarily true, at all?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmBut only One could be actually True and Right, right?
No...
Let's say that God were a two-sided statue.
Is this thread about 'free will' or God?
But, okay let us say that God were a two-sided statue.
Why any one would say this I am not sure, especially considering that we just say what God is actually, instead.
Anyway,
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
On one side of the statue, is the figure of a woman. On the other side of the statue, is the figure of a man. Let's further say that half of humanity could only see one side of the statue, without moving to see the other side. So half of humanity would claim that God is female, because they could not see the male side. The other half of humanity would claim that God is male, because they could not see the female side. Unless a person could walk all the way around the statue, and see both sides, he would stay ignorant as to the Nature and Reality of God.
And this partly, and maybe very well, explains why you human beings, in the days when this was being written, still had not yet seen and worked out who and what God is, exactly?
See, those people, back then, as I was continually saying, were just looking at a small and/or narrowed part, of the whole, and thus that is why they were only seeing, and talking about, only a part of the big Picture, as some would call It.
But, as I was also continually saying, and pointing out in and through 'their words', it was their continual presuming and believing, which was what was stopping and preventing them from seeing the whole and/or big Picture, of things.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
You would need to have, understand, accept, and know All perspectives, to understand God, not just one side.
Which I have been saying and/or alluding to here.
But which obviously, so far, no believes nor accepts.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
This is the exact problem of God,
But I still see no actual 'problem' of God.
But, then again, I do appear to use a very different definition for the 'problem' than most of you human beings did, back then. And, for the 'God' word as well, most likely.
But then this was and is just because I can and do use words, and their definitions, in a way, which makes up a crystal clear, or perfect, Picture of Life, and Existence, Itself.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
and why there is not "One True and Right" perspective,
But there is. you human beings in the days when this was being written just had not yet evolved enough and into this way of looking at, and seeing, things, that is; in and from the One True and Right way.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
because people remain on one side of the statue without seeing the other side.
I agree.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
It's a matter of lack of perspective, knowing, and consciousness.
Which is just totally understandable. Because as all these sorts of things are discovered, and/or learned and passed on, you human beings, back then, were not expected to have yet learned how to look at and see things from the Truly open perspective, as I had not yet passed on 'this knowledge', to you.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
One object, one statue, can appear opposite, based on your subjective perspective to it.
This is why looking at, and thus seeing, things from the Truly objective perspective provides the actual and irrefutable Truth of things, and almost immediately I will add.
But one just has to be Truly curious and seriously interested and wanting to learn and understand how to be able to see things from the Truly objective perspective.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Humanity is ingrained in this completely-subjective perspective, unable or unwilling to accept ulterior or contradictory perspectives. The selfish mindset is: "
My perspective is correct, and everybody else's is wrong".
I could not agree more with you here.
However, just as human beings evolved learning to become 'ingrained' with 'that way' of looking and thus seeing things, they can, will, and do keep evolving, and learning, and do become 'ingrained' with a 'much better way' of looking at, and thus seeing, things.
They actually come full circles, as will be discovered and learned, soon enough.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Greater understanding requires greater perspective.
Greatest understanding requires greatest perspective.
This is why there is no "One" perspective—or you would require the totality of All perspectives possible and imaginable.
And 'this' is, and was, easily done, and so simply I will add.
Once just needs to first learn how-to.
See, once one learns how to do something, then just doing it becomes simpler, and easier, and the more it is done, the simpler and easier it keeps become. Until it is just done so naturally, that is seems and appears 'ingrained'.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmOh okay.
And where exactly did you human beings get this Truly irrational fear from, exactly?
Genetic Instinct, Biology, Nature
Are you sure?
I can, and would, show and prove, irrefutably, otherwise, that is; if any one is truly interested to learn, and see, this.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmSo, are you saying here that the emotions within 'you' is what drives you to believe, and/or disbelieve some things, even when you have no proof at all either way?
Emotions influence Confirmation-Bias, compelling people to favor illogical premises and conclusions.
I agree, wholeheartedly, that emotions can influence you, that is; if one is not yet in full control over emotions, themselves.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Most people, and animals,
People are, it could be said, are another animal.
But it is far more correct to say that you human beings are just another animal.
But it appears here that you are suggesting that people, or human beings, are not actually animals. Is this what you are suggesting here?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
trust their 'instincts' over pure logical validity, because logical validity is counter-intuitive to much of experience.
1. Will you provide examples?
2. What some people say are 'instincts' are not actually 'instincts', at all.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Humans don't necessarily "The Best" way of doing things, how to act, how to live life, etc.
Was the word 'know', or something esle, meant to be in between the word 'necessarily', and the, 'the best' words here?
If it was meant to be 'know', then I agree, absolutely, that you human beings, in the days when this was being written, did not yet know what 'the best' was was of doing things. But this absolutely does not mean that you cannot learn 'the best' way of doing things.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmBut what is there 'to, supposedly, fear', exactly?
Losing consciousness forever, being disconnected from all you love and care about, all you value in life stripped from you.
But, you have 'lost consciousness', as you put it here. So, how you would even know;
1. That you have lost consciousness?
2. That you are disconnect from any one?
3. That all your valued, rightly or wrongly, has been so-called 'stripped' from you?
If you cannot know these things, so what, again, is 'it' exactly is there to fear here, exactly?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmBecause some thing appears and/or recurs then does this mean that 'it' is always rational?
I have still yet to hear of any actual reason why you older human beings, and only you older ones, have a so-called 'fear of death'.
Obviously 'fear' is an emotion, but what exactly is 'it' that you people 'fear' in relation to just not being consciously aware anymore. Obviously this is all that happens, and just as obvious is if there one is not consciously aware anymore, then there is no emotion, nor even a thought, being consciously aware of.
Also, and again just as obvious, the visible physical matter of the human body just changes in shape and form, just like it always has, and always will, here in this One and only place called the Universe, Existence, Life, and/or Heaven or Hell.
I don't know
What is 'it' that you do not know?
And, if you do want to know, then just ask the clarifying question to the answer that you would like 'to know'. That is; if there is absolutely anything here that you would like 'to know'.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
—you're referring to the mystery of Life and Death.
But there is no so-called 'mystery of Life, nor of death. Well not to me anyway.
I just explained what happens in, and to you, in what was commonly, but Wrongly, referred to as 'death'. What else is there that wants to be known, and/or understood, here, or there?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
It leads to attachment to God as a concept.
Well;
1. Considering the fact that none of you, when this is being written, has any real conception of who and what God is, exactly, doing or having absolutely any thing, which leads to an attachment of whatever this God thing is, exactly, would be highly not recommended to do, have, nor keep.
2. If the 'fear of death' leads to an attachment of God, as a concept, then why do even some of those young ones of you human beings who have not yet even heard of, thought over, nor talked about 'death' still have a concept of God?
3. If a 'fear of death' leads to attachment of only some concept of God, or of God only as some unknown concept, then all the better reason to rid yourselves of the Truly irrational fear of the Wrong conceived of 'death' word.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Humans mistake Consciousness for Life, as-if somebody in a comatose state, or asleep, is not alive.
Okay, if you say so.
But why do you do this?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
So there is a conflation between consciousness and life. Humanity seems more attached to Consciousness than to Life, as a result. Why is there an attachment? That's a good question. I know
How there is an attachment, through genetic reflex and instinctive compulsion. Instincts form the brunt of action and will.
Is it a possibility that actually you "yourself" are somewhat confused and/or conflated here?
Or, is this not a possibility, to you?
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
I think the attachment to Consciousness, is because people and individuals, don't want to be forgotten.
Well here is another completely Wrongly learned thing, which those human beings had evolved to have, back then, when this was being written.
Why would absolutely any one want to be 'not forgotten'?
The actual reason lies down deep within. But these human beings, once again, were just confusing and conflating their own personal 'selves' with the One and ONLY True and Real Self. Which, obviously, could never be forgotten, ever, anyway.
All of these fears human beings once had, back then, were all for absolutely no Real reason at all.
They were all based on and off absolutely False, Wrong, and/or completely distorted thinking, assumptions and beliefs.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Consciousness wants to be remembered forever,
No It does not.
Some of you human beings however might.
Consciousness, Itself, already knows that It cannot be forgotten.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
In the same way life wants to reproduce forever.
Life, with capital 'l', also already knows that It is reproducing always, already.
So, no 'want' is even necessary.
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:40 am
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:20 pmWithin you human beings, and existing exactly in the way that it does. That is; by providing the 'ability to choose'.
Interesting...