Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
The exerpt i copied included
a philosophical anthropology. Kierkegaard’s own irony served to ‘ mask ’ his deep, personal commitment to Christianity. If Socrates asked, how can I become a man, Kierkegaard asked, how can I become a Christian? In the Concept of Irony Kierkegaard emphasizes the negativity of irony insofar as any knowledge claim is subject to the critical power of the ironic standpoint. Irony is the antithesis of the actual and is oriented in the direction of the ideal infinity of the possible.................
Those like IC have no conception of what it means to be a man mush less a Christian. Yet they stick their nose up in the air without a clue as to why the human condition compels society as a whole to be controlled by an aimless existence
a philosophical anthropology. Kierkegaard’s own irony served to ‘ mask ’ his deep, personal commitment to Christianity. If Socrates asked, how can I become a man, Kierkegaard asked, how can I become a Christian? In the Concept of Irony Kierkegaard emphasizes the negativity of irony insofar as any knowledge claim is subject to the critical power of the ironic standpoint. Irony is the antithesis of the actual and is oriented in the direction of the ideal infinity of the possible.................
Those like IC have no conception of what it means to be a man mush less a Christian. Yet they stick their nose up in the air without a clue as to why the human condition compels society as a whole to be controlled by an aimless existence
- Immanuel Can
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
You have to answer the question, then: did you read Camus's book, The Myth of Sisyphus, Nick?
If you didn't, then there was nothing to "appeal" to you, in the first place.
A myth doesn't "appeal" to the person "not-reading" it.
Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
I read it years go in college but the real issue is why you don't understand what you read. If you did you would appreciate the intricacies of why Humanity accepts absurdity as a desirable alterntiveImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:03 pmYou have to answer the question, then: did you read Camus's book, The Myth of Sisyphus, Nick?
If you didn't, then there was nothing to "appeal" to you, in the first place.
A myth doesn't "appeal" to the person "not-reading" it.
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
I Can is sysiphus. He is one of the persons absurdly pushing the rock up the hill thinking there there is some sort of meaning to life. He deludes himself the he is god's special creation, and sees his life as a struggle to unpack the truth in the design of the universe.Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:13 pmI read it years go in college but the real issue is why you don't understand what you read. If you did you would appreciate the intricacies of why Humanity accepts absurdity as a desirable alterntiveImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:03 pmYou have to answer the question, then: did you read Camus's book, The Myth of Sisyphus, Nick?
If you didn't, then there was nothing to "appeal" to you, in the first place.
A myth doesn't "appeal" to the person "not-reading" it.
He'll never get Camus.
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
I've read it (several years ago)Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:49 amDid you have a chance to read the book, actually? Or are you talking more about what you would do...
if camus finds his life an absurd misery, good for him - it's his life, let him embrace his fate
if someone enjoys their apparent "drudgery" then that which one as an external observer "sees" might look absurd from a fatalist's perspective...
and those who love their fate... but that's a question for fast freddy
-Imp
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
Fair enough. I had no reason to doubt you.Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:58 amI've read it (several years ago)Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:49 amDid you have a chance to read the book, actually? Or are you talking more about what you would do...
I was only addressing that question to Nick, because his comments suggest that he really has no idea at all what Camus says. I think he never read Camus, but is just looking for a chance to rhapsodize about Simone.
Right.if camus finds his life an absurd misery, good for him - it's his life, let him embrace his fate
if someone enjoys their apparent "drudgery" then that which one as an external observer "sees" might look absurd from a fatalist's perspective...
and those who love their fate... but that's a question for fast freddy
I think he's wrong about it being possible to make the rock "my rock." He's really just counselling a kind of elaborate self-deception...no more.
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
Camus wroteImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:13 amProve it. Quote the book, and show me where I'm wrong.
If I'm wrong, I'll change my view.
Camus is not suggesting suicide but admitting that recognizing human meaning and purpose requires more that what our senses are capable of understanding. It is obvious that he believes there must be more beyond the senses. That is why he called Simone Weil the only great mind of our times. She had the will, need, and courage, to experience from above. Camus is really suggesting the conclusion of Ecclesiastes.“What I know, what is certain, what I cannot deny,
what I cannot reject—this is what counts. I can negate everything
of that part of me that lives on vague nostalgias, except this desire
for unity, this longing to solve, this need for clarity and cohesion. I
can refute everything in this world surrounding me that offends or
enraptures me, except this chaos, this sovereign chance and this
divine equivalence which springs from anarchy. I don’t know
whether this world has a meaning that transcends it. But I know
that I do not know that meaning and that it is impossible for me
just now to know it. What can a meaning outside my condition
mean to me? I can understand only in human terms. What I touch,
what resists me—that is what I understand. And these two
certainties—my appetite for the absolute and for unity and the
impossibility of reducing this world to a rational and reasonable
principle—I also know that I cannot reconcile them. What other
truth can I admit without lying, without bringing in a hope I lack
and which means nothing within the limits of my condition?”
The world as we know it is meaningless so just obey God's laws and make the best of it as you push the great Rock..Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
8 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher.
“Everything is meaningless!”
The Conclusion of the Matter
9 Not only was the Teacher wise, but he also imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. 10 The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true.
11 The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one shepherd. 12 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.
Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
Now the perennial presence of Christianity makes its appearance once again in Jesus' return bringing the Spirit. The tension described in Ecclesiastes can be resolved by the Holy Spirit which connects above and below also described by St.Paul in Romans7
Camus is in good place as he describes nihilism. Once a person feels the depth of meaninglessness, they have the potential to get out of their own way long enough inwardly turn toward the light and experience the inner direction leading to human meaning.7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Camus leads us to nihilism and those capable of inwardly turning towards the light can have a life experience which will change their lives.
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
Interesting. I found exactly the same quotation, clipped exactly the same way as you did, on this site:
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/8 ... phe?page=2
Amazing that they would clip it exactly at the points, and in exactly the same way, that you have.
Not surprisingly, almost nothing of what you said subsequently accurately reflected Camus's argument, expounded any point he made accurately, or built anything out of what he actually said. It's almost like you never actually read the book at all...
Unfortunately for you, I did...and have it on hand. So bluffs like this are really hard to pull off.
Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
This isn't rockett science. You asked for quote so I dug round and found one that describes the human condition which can lead a person to nihilism and the revelations that can take place. The expansion esoteric thought leads to including socratic irony isn't your thingImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:27 amInteresting. I found exactly the same quotation, clipped exactly the same way as you did, on this site:Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:52 amCamus wrote...etc.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:13 am
Prove it. Quote the book, and show me where I'm wrong.
If I'm wrong, I'll change my view.
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/8 ... phe?page=2
Amazing that they would clip it exactly at the points, and in exactly the same way, that you have.
Not surprisingly, almost nothing of what you said subsequently accurately reflected Camus's argument, expounded any point he made accurately, or built anything out of what he actually said. It's almost like you never actually read the book at all...
Unfortunately for you, I did...and have it on hand. So bluffs like this are really hard to pull off.
There is no reason to bluff but for some reason you believe that by proudly waving book around it means you understand something
Camus makes a good point. Why not open your mind to the potential benefits of nihilism.
Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
It would be pearls before swine.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:54 amOh, do take me on on this one, Scuply. Please do.
Let's hear what you have to say about The Myth of Sisyphus.
You are mentally deficient to understand Camus due to your conditioning.
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
Nobody asked for that, Nick. Not here.
Again, if you want to talk about Simone, start a thread with her name on it. See how many people want to engage with you about her. There's no need for you to derail the train here.
If you believe Simone is important, then show you do, by starting your own thread. Show you believe that people want and need to talk about her. And if you don't want to do that, how it is that you have so lost faith in Simone?
I've read it. You clearly haven't.There is no reason to bluff but for some reason you believe that by proudly waving book around it means you understand something
So while, for argument's sake, my having read it may not be an absolute guarantee I understood it, your having not read it is an absolute and ironclad guarantee you don't.
- Immanuel Can
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Re: Albert Camus: The Myth of Sisyphus
Puff Puff Puff!Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:25 pmAnd yet...you can't do it. You can't talk intelligently about Camus's book, because you don't know squat about it.
And aren't you charming...