Philosophy Now Forum

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:07 pm My answer is no.

Consider prisons where security is supposed to be very high. There have been prison breakouts (including "El Chapo"). The border wall does not keep undesirables trapped, only designed to keep them out of the US. I can't see the wall being effective under these circumstance and I consider the other issues concerning the wall to be minor in comparison.

PhilX

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:59 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:07 pm My answer is no.

Consider prisons where security is supposed to be very high. There have been prison breakouts (including "El Chapo"). The border wall does not keep undesirables trapped, only designed to keep them out of the US. I can't see the wall being effective under these circumstance and I consider the other issues concerning the wall to be minor in comparison.

PhilX

"Good fences make good neighbours."

We will soon have scientific verification on this either way. Six progressive politicians have agreed to participate in a government funded experiment to get to the bottom of it. They will remove the doors to their homes for three months and see if it allows unwanted visitors to enter. The hypothesis is that people are basically good and respectful to others so doors are unnecessary and just breed ill will. Therefore there will be no unwanted visitors. It is rewarding to find people willing to act on their beliefs.

fooloso4 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:23 pm There are many who think that Trump himself leads the list of undesirables and is potentially if not actually more dangerous than all others.

Who and what determines the criteria of undesirability? The assumption that because someone comes from what Trump calls shithole countries they are undesirable is and should be questioned.

The problem of immigration has much more to do with numbers than with the spin it is being given regarding the character of individuals. A wall might slow the number of people entering the country illegally, but no wall will keep out all undesirable and we already have plenty of homegrown undesirables.

A successful wall would keep out the migrant workers who are essential for agribusiness and and other businesses that rely on manual labor. Accommodations will have to be made, but this will be a form of indentured servitude without liberty and perhaps without a path to citizenship.

"How effective will Trump's border wall be?" which implies a bunch of questions.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:23 am Yes. It should help to keep them out of Mexico.

fooloso4 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:40 am PhilX:

"How effective will Trump's border wall be?" which implies a bunch of questions.

In terms of efficacy I think there are two main issues: can it built and can it be traversed or gone around. There are geographic, political, budgetary, and legal problems with building it. As to its ability to keep people and drugs out, it will make it more difficult for individuals, but in addition to going over and under and through, there are other ways to get in such as planes, ships and trucks to get in and drug cartels have the resources to do so.

Other questions include cost/benefit - it is not just a matter of building it, but of guarding and maintaining it, and environmental impact.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:40 am To you: absolutely.

To me: just necessary.