-1- wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:30 am
Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:07 pmNo, just one. Descartes is very explicit about the "I" being his thoughts
EB
No, two. Count them: He, and his thought.
Again, no.
He was definitely not talking about himself as a public persona or a physical organism. He was talking about the 'I' and only the 'I', and he explained very carefully that by the 'I' he meant his thoughts, and more precisely only the thought he had on the moment.
-1- wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:30 am
I don't know what else Descartes said. Whether he said implicitly or explicitly that he himself is his thought. I beg to differ. His thoughts are not HIM. If you say he is his thoughts, then it's like saying he is his chair, he is his clothes, he is his drink. He is not his chair. He is not his thoughts.
He was using the word 'I' in the context of the Cogito and he defined it as the thought he had on the moment.
-1- wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:30 am
You must not pay that close attention to everything everyone says and then accept it as truth, EB. You must exercise your own critical analysis. Without that you are not a philosopher, but a parrot.
First, I wasn't arguing that Cogito was true. You shouldn't let you imagination take control.
My point was about what Descartes said and what we can infer as to what he meant. You're welcome to argue on this basis.
-1- wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:30 am
Why would it matter anyhow, what Descartes said beyond "cogito ergo sum"?
It matters a lot because the Cogito can very easily be misunderstood and Descartes himself took great care explaining it at length.
To ignore his explanations is to be intellectually fraudulent.
-1- wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:30 am
Can't you draw your own conclusions from that? I am not writing a treatise on Descartes' and his philosophy; I am writing a treatise on "cogito ergo sum" and its ensuing corollaries. If you must doggonedly insist that it's not what Descartes said, then you are darn right. If you are incapable of independent thought, or appreciate one when you see one, then you are again, a parrot, who accepts authority like crazy.
You know nothing about me and yet you draw drastic conclusions?! Bravo!
You're all wrong, though.
And if you want to use Descartes' Cogito in a different way than he did then you better make clear to your reader that's what you're doing.
EB