In defense of Londoner, don't forget that his original point was sort of Platonic: that dog breeds, which are probably somewhat analogous to races, are not timeless and eternal entities, but in flux, and therefore are not real. While that is no doubt true, it doens't change the fact that I like Labradors, and do not like Pugs at all.Londoner wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:04 amThe definition of species isn't that simple:
https://www.quora.com/How-can-tigers-an ... nt-species
And of course there are no problems of fertility at all when humans breed; both their male and female children will be fertile.
Race versus culture
Re: Race versus culture
Re: Race versus culture
No, it is nothing to do with Platonic forms.
You made the mysterious comment:
So the fact of ligers means that lions and tigers never really existed?
I guessed that you were probably trying to say something about speciation and human 'races'. But I really don't know.
So do I gather that you now accept that the human race is a single and very homogeneous species? That it is not the case that there once used to be different 'races' like 'orientals' and 'Aryans' that they are now becoming mixed-up and 'mongrel-ised'? Good!
Absolutely. That is no doubt a fact about you; nobody doubts you have likes and dislikes. What they are disputing is your claim that these are based on science, or reason.While that is no doubt true, it doens't change the fact that I like Labradors, and do not like Pugs at all.
- Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture
But they are not your country are they? And given what you say of your background you'd be viewed as a non-white Muslim foreigner.Seleucus wrote:...
Nothing is gained by bringing millions of Africans and Muslims into our countries.
Re: Race versus culture
So you think it would be somehow wrong to use the words Labrador or Pug?
Re: Race versus culture
You're detective work is infected with bias? I have one English grandparent, one Scottish, one Russian, and one Greek. That's pretty White!Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:34 amBut they are not your country are they? And given what you say of your background you'd be viewed as a non-white Muslim foreigner.Seleucus wrote:...
Nothing is gained by bringing millions of Africans and Muslims into our countries.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Race versus culture
Didn't you say you are Greek? A lot of people can't stand Greeks. Apparently Greek immigrants have awful taste and tacky, vulgar homes (or so I've heard), and fat, spoilt rotten children.Seleucus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:51 amIf I'm not mistaken, the phrase "counter-enlightenment" was coined by Isaiah Berlin, who had a negative view of the movement, so ought possibly to be used with a grain of salt as they say.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 amOh wow. ''Counter-enlightenment'' says it all really.
Re: Race versus culture
My grandmother is Greek. So I can draw on that identity. And she is fat, though I am not. Just about to start my exercise routine right now....vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:47 amDidn't you say you are Greek? A lot of people can't stand Greeks. Apparently Greek immigrants have awful taste and tacky, vulgar homes (or so I've heard), and fat, spoilt rotten children.Seleucus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:51 amIf I'm not mistaken, the phrase "counter-enlightenment" was coined by Isaiah Berlin, who had a negative view of the movement, so ought possibly to be used with a grain of salt as they say.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 amOh wow. ''Counter-enlightenment'' says it all really.
Last edited by Seleucus on Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Race versus culture
And spoilt you rotten no doubt.Seleucus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:51 amMy grandmother is Greek. And she is fat, though I am an Adonis.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:47 amDidn't you say you are Greek? A lot of people can't stand Greeks. Apparently Greek immigrants have awful taste and tacky, vulgar homes (or so I've heard), and fat, spoilt rotten children.
Re: Race versus culture
She was probably about typical for a grandmother. Her and my grandfather were not wealthy so they weren't in much of a position to be spoiling anyone. By the time I was born they were already pensioners.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:52 amAnd spoilt you rotten no doubt.Seleucus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:51 amMy grandmother is Greek. So I can draw on that identity. And she is fat, though I am not. Just about to start my exercise routine right now....vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:47 am
Didn't you say you are Greek? A lot of people can't stand Greeks. Apparently Greek immigrants have awful taste and tacky, vulgar homes (or so I've heard), and fat, spoilt rotten children.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Race versus culture
So how did you end up in a muslim country complaining about the noise of the call to prayer?Seleucus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:46 amYou're detective work is infected with bias? I have one English grandparent, one Scottish, one Russian, and one Greek. That's pretty White!Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:34 amBut they are not your country are they? And given what you say of your background you'd be viewed as a non-white Muslim foreigner.Seleucus wrote:...
Nothing is gained by bringing millions of Africans and Muslims into our countries.
Re: Race versus culture
I can say quite confidently that I am well aware that Slavs, Koreans, Eskimos and Aborigines are all humans. So guess we can agree, that race, just like Golden Retrievers, exists.
Re: Race versus culture
Honestly, this rightism stuff is just as new to me as it may be to you.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 amOh wow. ''Counter-enlightenment'' says it all really.
I'd given up on politics and even humanity. But then I heard about Trump. And then he actually won. And then there was Brexit. And then Geert Wilders got a big chunk of the Dutch parliament, and then Alternative for Deutschland got a chunk of the German parliament. And now Sebastian Kurz has won in Austria.
It's like there's hope again.
Probably just like a lot of people, I was completely alienated and deterritorialized. But now when I have a little time after work, and family duties are taken care of, and exercise and cooking and everything else is done, I have a little free time maybe in the evenings or in the mornings to read something or watch a lecture, and start to understand my racial history, my culture, my languages, and the spiritual heritage of my people.
Re: Race versus culture
So, having got rid of all the pseudo-scientific stuff, we can now refine further our understanding of what you mean by 'race'.
Is it cultural? Such that a black person can become a Slav if they conform to the cultural baggage that goes with being a Slav (and that you have a check list of what that cultural baggage is)?
Or is it about appearance? Is 'race' determined by what you agree are superficial features, like the shade of somebody's skin? So that every person with a sufficiently dark skin, (judged against some sort of colour chart), belongs to the same 'race', irrespective of their culture?
- Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture
Fair point, and what a mix of all the worst but you can lie about the Greek and big up the English then but the Muslim bit's going to be a bit harder.Seleucus wrote:]You're detective work is infected with bias? I have one English grandparent, one Scottish, one Russian, and one Greek. That's pretty White!
Last edited by Arising_uk on Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.