!00% Proof Gods Don't Exist: Part Deux.
Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:20 pm
Most if not all devotees of the 'big three' religions would claim that their God is perfect.
It follows then, that in their opinion, their God must possess 'perfect justness'*, along with 'perfect' every other attribute. After all, it's perfect.
Most if not all devotees of the 'big three' religions would claim that their God is the ultimate moral authority in the Universe.
It follows then that, in their opinion, their God is morally perfect.
Most if not all of would agree that “Although democracy may not be a perfect system, it's the best system we've got.”.
It follows then that we do not consider the “My word is law” scenario to be just.
However; many of you are willing to accept that a perfectly moral, perfectly just, creator of the Universe, considers the “My word is law” scenario to be perfectly just. However; for the “My word is law” scenario to be perfectly just, for a creator God, would mean that no “more just” scenario could possibly exist. After all, if God is perfectly just, and perfectly moral, He wouldn't have created anything but the “most just possible” universe. Here's the problem, even I can see a “more just” scenario than that, and I'm not omniscient. Oh, and before you point to my not being omniscient as a possible reason for my scenario being impossible, isn't nothing impossible for your God?
What is it?
A universe in which a 'truly just' creator or creators, do nothing to influence the outcome of its/their creation. We make our beds, we lie in them.
What is more I can even visualize a 'truly just' scenario.
What is it?
A multiverse were every possible scenario plays out, and therefore we all become 'truly just' ourselves somewhere, and are then elevated to 'truly just creator beings' ourselves. I am truly just, and that is what my creation would have been like.
To many of you, that may not sound like the sort of system that a 'loving creator' would create. After all, people are suffering here, some of them horribly. The world is full of inequality and injustice. Etc:.
To avoid getting all bogged down in verbiage, since I proposed this creation scenario, I will use the first person in the following Socratic methodology.
Why don't you put an end to injustice?
Could you learn what justness is without having witnessed or experienced injustice?
How can you let children die of diseases?
Could you learn to care for others if nobody needed your care?
If I prevented suffering, here, why not there too, oh, and there, and there...?
What about Hitler?
If I took Hitler out of history, the timeline would have changed, and who knows, maybe billions would have died not millions.
Any manipulation of your lives on Earth, no matter how slight, would alter the future.
To truly have freewill, you have to be truly free. That requires that there be no 'fixing' from an external source.
Does that mean that nobody gets punished by you either?
Yes. You were all born into the world that you created, and were thus created by it. Who am I to judge? Had Hitler been born into a different world, would he have followed the same path? Who should I hold to account?
How can you let horrible things happen to us if you love us?
Because I love you so much, that I have to let you be free. I cannot lift a finger to 'help you', but there is nothing that I wouldn't endure 'for you'.
These were just a few questions that I felt might be asked. If you have others please fire away. I know that it can be a harsh proposition to people who believe in gods, prayers being answered, and carrot and stick lifestyles, but there you are.
The truly just would never consider themselves gods, and if your God isn't truly just, it isn't perfect.
*As you no doubt understand, there is no such thing as 'perfect justness' as it pertains to all possible scenarios. What may be just for person (a) may not be quite as just for person (b) and not at all just for person (c), in a complex utilization of justness. For that reason I use the term 'true justness', meaning the 'most just possible' application of justness.
It follows then, that in their opinion, their God must possess 'perfect justness'*, along with 'perfect' every other attribute. After all, it's perfect.
Most if not all devotees of the 'big three' religions would claim that their God is the ultimate moral authority in the Universe.
It follows then that, in their opinion, their God is morally perfect.
Most if not all of would agree that “Although democracy may not be a perfect system, it's the best system we've got.”.
It follows then that we do not consider the “My word is law” scenario to be just.
However; many of you are willing to accept that a perfectly moral, perfectly just, creator of the Universe, considers the “My word is law” scenario to be perfectly just. However; for the “My word is law” scenario to be perfectly just, for a creator God, would mean that no “more just” scenario could possibly exist. After all, if God is perfectly just, and perfectly moral, He wouldn't have created anything but the “most just possible” universe. Here's the problem, even I can see a “more just” scenario than that, and I'm not omniscient. Oh, and before you point to my not being omniscient as a possible reason for my scenario being impossible, isn't nothing impossible for your God?
What is it?
A universe in which a 'truly just' creator or creators, do nothing to influence the outcome of its/their creation. We make our beds, we lie in them.
What is more I can even visualize a 'truly just' scenario.
What is it?
A multiverse were every possible scenario plays out, and therefore we all become 'truly just' ourselves somewhere, and are then elevated to 'truly just creator beings' ourselves. I am truly just, and that is what my creation would have been like.
To many of you, that may not sound like the sort of system that a 'loving creator' would create. After all, people are suffering here, some of them horribly. The world is full of inequality and injustice. Etc:.
To avoid getting all bogged down in verbiage, since I proposed this creation scenario, I will use the first person in the following Socratic methodology.
Why don't you put an end to injustice?
Could you learn what justness is without having witnessed or experienced injustice?
How can you let children die of diseases?
Could you learn to care for others if nobody needed your care?
If I prevented suffering, here, why not there too, oh, and there, and there...?
What about Hitler?
If I took Hitler out of history, the timeline would have changed, and who knows, maybe billions would have died not millions.
Any manipulation of your lives on Earth, no matter how slight, would alter the future.
To truly have freewill, you have to be truly free. That requires that there be no 'fixing' from an external source.
Does that mean that nobody gets punished by you either?
Yes. You were all born into the world that you created, and were thus created by it. Who am I to judge? Had Hitler been born into a different world, would he have followed the same path? Who should I hold to account?
How can you let horrible things happen to us if you love us?
Because I love you so much, that I have to let you be free. I cannot lift a finger to 'help you', but there is nothing that I wouldn't endure 'for you'.
These were just a few questions that I felt might be asked. If you have others please fire away. I know that it can be a harsh proposition to people who believe in gods, prayers being answered, and carrot and stick lifestyles, but there you are.
The truly just would never consider themselves gods, and if your God isn't truly just, it isn't perfect.
*As you no doubt understand, there is no such thing as 'perfect justness' as it pertains to all possible scenarios. What may be just for person (a) may not be quite as just for person (b) and not at all just for person (c), in a complex utilization of justness. For that reason I use the term 'true justness', meaning the 'most just possible' application of justness.