Philosophy Now Forum

Claim:
If Time Travel would be true throughout the history of human kind, at any point in time whether past or future, time travellers would be "all over us" in telling about the future or past or whatever.

However, there are no stories of either such people or common stories of such being told from one person (the traveller) to another.

Therefore, time travel isn't going to exist ever!

Logic: Modus tollens

If Time Travel then Time Travellers (or common stories of such)
No Time Travellers
No Time Travel

Good?

If only awareness without baggage can travel through time then there is no way of knowing if a Time Traveler isn't just pulling your leg with his or her tales of adventure.

Walker wrote:If only awareness without baggage can travel through time then there is no way of knowing if a Time Traveler isn't just pulling your leg with his or her tales of adventure.

So you assume that Time Travellers are pulling your leg all the time? Isn't that an unreasonable story?
BTW, stories of the future would hold a kind of plausibility or coherence (our reality entails/is able to hold the story of the future by specific calculations, inventions, a record of history from the future or technology all the way up) so that if the stories would be prevalent then the "Nostradamus" stories would be recorded or a record of place and people would be with us.

Well, it sure does throw a logical contradiction at two legs good, four legs bad, because four legs means that your hopping is more stable if one of them is being pulled front or back, which means you're less likely to fall over.

But seriously, a great time-travel story is Farnham’s Freehold, by Robert Heinlein.

Necromancer wrote:Claim:
If Time Travel would be true throughout the history of human kind, at any point in time whether past or future, time travellers would be "all over us" in telling about the future or past or whatever.

Not necessarily so.

UFOs are over us, just not over all nor "all over us" all of the time. The reason these spacetime-travelling ships appear to some of us and the occupants do not interact wholly with all of us telling us about time travel, in the past and present age, is to keep the mystery alive. Have you ever thought that the ships that are called ufo's could in fact actually just be us 'coming back'?

The illusion that they are aliens was done on purpose? The delusion that they were aliens from another planet was past on to the previous us. UFO sightings show that space travel is possble, but that these ships are really just US will be revealed fully at the right time.

When human beings have evolved enough, then how time-travel is actually possible will become more general known. The knowledge of time travel and the ability to travel travel in time evolves gradually with human beings. At a certain point ALL will be, is, or was revealed. That sentence depends on what point in time you are at.

Necromancer wrote:However, there are no stories of either such people or common stories of such being told from one person (the traveller) to another.

There are two reasons this is so.

1. In the days of these writings human beings are still very greedy and still relatively very unlightened peoples. Now imagine that if a traveller did come back today and by just 'coming back' it was shown how time travel does work and the traveller explained how it was created. Most people would probably want to experience this, but you do not need to guess who would take control of this ability first. The most powerful, who are usually the most wealthiest and the most greediest, would get a hold of this first and you could easily imagine the devasting effects that this would have, not just, on humanity itself but on Everything Itself.

2. Human beings on a whole, in this current age, certainly do not deserve any luxury like the ability to time-travel. Look at the way they each treat and mistreat each other, especially the way they all mistreat children. When adult human beings accept and TAKE full responsibility for all the wrong doing they do, and after they have changed enough, and thus evolved enough, then how time-travelling is done will become more known and accepted.

Only after ALL greed and mistreatment of ALL peoples is eliminated completely from society then this society itself will deserve to discover the truth of time travel. These peoples will learn about and understand the responsibility that comes with travelling in time.

ALL things evolve and change, naturally, including human beings, and their ability to travel faster and faster also evolves, with time. The ability to travel faster than, or in, time evolves with the natural order of things. That is only after human beings have fixed their ways and are again living WITH ALL things instead of trying to take as much as they can FROM things then, and only then, will they be given the secrets of time travelling.

Necromancer wrote:Therefore, time travel isn't going to exist ever!

For those old enough, the 'four minute mile' is not going to happen ever also.

Necromancer wrote:Logic: Modus tollens

If Time Travel then Time Travellers (or common stories of such)
No Time Travellers
No Time Travel

Good?

I have seen better.

Necromancer wrote:Claim:
If Time Travel would be true throughout the history of human kind, at any point in time whether past or future, time travellers would be "all over us" in telling about the future or past or whatever.

However, there are no stories of either such people or common stories of such being told from one person (the traveller) to another.

Therefore, time travel isn't going to exist ever!

Logic: Modus tollens

If Time Travel then Time Travellers (or common stories of such)
No Time Travellers
No Time Travel

Good?

I don't believe in time traveling, but the demonstration is not valid, because the first premise is false. According to the first premise, all I have to do is to claim that I'm a time traveler or that I have seen one to prove that there's time traveling, but stories of time travelers do not imply the fact of time traveling.

Necromancer wrote:Claim:
If Time Travel would be true throughout the history of human kind, at any point in time whether past or future, time travellers would be "all over us" in telling about the future or past or whatever.

However, there are no stories of either such people or common stories of such being told from one person (the traveller) to another.

Therefore, time travel isn't going to exist ever!

Logic: Modus tollens

If Time Travel then Time Travellers (or common stories of such)
No Time Travellers
No Time Travel

Good?

Yeah got to agree with Conde here. And besides that, anyone that believes that time travel to the extent you are suggesting is possible don't understand time.

What is TIME?

What then is a moment in time? In the true sense of the word, in a single moment in time there is nothing moving.
For time is simply the occurrence of an event, if there is not an event, then there is not time. Not an electron spinning, a photon emitting...etc

TIME...reversed...EMIT

So to travel earlier in time, would require unraveling causality - i could believe God could do it - but don't think it would bother.

attofishpi wrote:

Necromancer wrote:Claim:
If Time Travel would be true throughout the history of human kind, at any point in time whether past or future, time travellers would be "all over us" in telling about the future or past or whatever.

However, there are no stories of either such people or common stories of such being told from one person (the traveller) to another.

Therefore, time travel isn't going to exist ever!

Logic: Modus tollens

If Time Travel then Time Travellers (or common stories of such)
No Time Travellers
No Time Travel

Good?

Yeah got to agree with Conde here. And besides that, anyone that believes that time travel to the extent you are suggesting is possible don't understand time.

What is TIME?

What then is a moment in time? In the true sense of the word, in a single moment in time there is nothing moving.
For time is simply the occurrence of an event, if there is not an event, then there is not time. Not an electron spinning, a photon emitting...etc

TIME...reversed...EMIT

So to travel earlier in time, would require unraveling causality - i could believe God could do it - but don't think it would bother.

It doesn't matter what you believe. Impossible means impossible.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

Necromancer wrote:Claim:
If Time Travel would be true throughout the history of human kind, at any point in time whether past or future, time travellers would be "all over us" in telling about the future or past or whatever.

However, there are no stories of either such people or common stories of such being told from one person (the traveller) to another.

Therefore, time travel isn't going to exist ever!

Logic: Modus tollens

If Time Travel then Time Travellers (or common stories of such)
No Time Travellers
No Time Travel

Good?

Yeah got to agree with Conde here. And besides that, anyone that believes that time travel to the extent you are suggesting is possible don't understand time.

What is TIME?

What then is a moment in time? In the true sense of the word, in a single moment in time there is nothing moving.
For time is simply the occurrence of an event, if there is not an event, then there is not time. Not an electron spinning, a photon emitting...etc

TIME...reversed...EMIT

So to travel earlier in time, would require unraveling causality - i could believe God could do it - but don't think it would bother.

It doesn't matter what you believe. Impossible means impossible.

..such as God saying im_possible.
http://www.androcies.com

proof of time travel?

ask me in an hour...

-Imp

Conde Lucanor wrote:I don't believe in time traveling, but the demonstration is not valid, because the first premise is false. According to the first premise, all I have to do is to claim that I'm a time traveler or that I have seen one to prove that there's time traveling, but stories of time travelers do not imply the fact of time traveling.

Your story of time travelling will quickly fall apart because it's not coherent with you travelling in time and discovering new histories of science in the future or whatever the "bridged" story that marks a genuine story of time travelling. First, fx., where's your time travelling UFO? In your garage?

Necromancer wrote:

Conde Lucanor wrote:I don't believe in time traveling, but the demonstration is not valid, because the first premise is false. According to the first premise, all I have to do is to claim that I'm a time traveler or that I have seen one to prove that there's time traveling, but stories of time travelers do not imply the fact of time traveling.

Your story of time travelling will quickly fall apart because it's not coherent with you travelling in time and discovering new histories of science in the future or whatever the "bridged" story that marks a genuine story of time travelling. First, fx., where's your time travelling UFO? In your garage?

So you just confirmed that the first premise was false.

Necromancer wrote:However, there are no stories of either such people or common stories of such being told from one person (the traveller) to another.

Therefore, time travel isn't going to exist ever!

However, our time and place may not be high on the radar. After all, if an alien species evolved for ten billion years or more around a red dwarf star, who knows what they may come up with? However, they'd have plenty of space and time to choose from aside from Earth in this brief window of modern humanity.

Our current understanding of physics, however, is not promising for time travel. Theoretically there may be backwards time travel going on within the inner horizon of black holes, but any time-travelling material would seemingly be incinerated and disintegrated en route. The tech and energies needed to support a wormhole would be forbidding enough, never mind the economics. I'm not convinced we are going to find too many Dyson spheres around either.

to go back in time is to create alternate derivatives of time otherwise all of time would change in a given time travelled journey.

or perhaps if you go back in time all is permanently fixed and can't be meddled with.