How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

[Dontaskme]

Now it's interesting to watch myself saying this because I spent many years and much energy exploring various paths of enlightenment. And during that time, I believed that "other people needed to know such things too". But I'm much more relaxed about all of it now. All seems perfectly fine as it is. I use my creativity to manifest all sort of things in all sorts of directions. I favor certain qualities, but it's no more crucial than a painting on a canvas. It is my/this art. I do not obsess over it or claim to know what a much larger cosmic canvas is or must be... or what "I" or others are in relationship to that... because it all appears to be one, shimmering from different levels and facets like sunlight on water. There is no need to define or focus on any separateness or time EXCEPT for this world stage... and this world stage is a playground to dream and sleep and awake and dream some more. It doesn't matter because it's all one. That's my guess.

Life neither is dreaming nor dreams, life flows and the flow of life (light) manifests an illusory auditory and optical illusion of dreams to an illusory man and only in the illusory mind of a human being. Life has no intentions, because life which is light has no cause. Only that which has cause has intention, which is the ego. And the ego is an auditory illusion of sound. Life has manifested sound that appears as knowledge and beliefs, albeit illusory. This means the dreams and knowledge only appear to be present to an illusory man but are not actually present.

Academy of Absolute Understanding.

[Reflex]

In a sense, Ken and Lacewing are right, but here's the problem: pure awareness, awareness without any content at all, is non-existence. To exist is to define, to establish boundaries, i.e., to formulate beliefs about ourselves and the world around us. On the other hand, and this is where they get it right, any instance of learning must diverge from our reliance on intellectual data, let go of assumptions, associations, emotional considerations, and “knowing.” This back-and-forth is what can be described as an evolving dialectic.

Ken and Lacewing seem to be advocating complete disengagement or non-existence. Now, that may be consistent with some Eastern philosophies, but it is hardly "spiritual." We live in a participatory universe, and the definition of "spirit" is the vital principle or animating force within living things. To act is to define, and to define is to establish ephemeral beliefs.

[Lacewing]

pure awareness, awareness without any content at all, is non-existence

I'm guessing that's true. I'm not striving for that extreme.

To exist is to define, to establish boundaries, i.e., to formulate beliefs about ourselves and the world around us.

I do not see a definitive degree to which this needs to be done. Some people project their beliefs and definitions onto everything to such a degree that they can perceive nothing beyond that. This is what I try to avoid. I'm guessing that this world is so different than what I could fathom it to be, that I try to remain open to seeing more. Meanwhile, I work and play with what I see, but I try not to take any of it too seriously, nor define any of it too rigidly, nor identify myself with it. And yet at the same time, I honor it and am grateful to be here, doing whatever this is.

Ken and Lacewing seem to be advocating disengagement or non-existence.

I'm not doing that. I immerse myself in life... and in playing with all of it... which includes being forgetful sometimes, and "believing" it is one thing or another... until someone reminds me that we're just making up stuff. We can believe one thing one minute, and another thing another minute... so beliefs don't seem very reliable to me. If other people want to maintain serious and/or long-term beliefs, I hope that is serving them well. I simply don't want them imposing THEIR BELIEFS on me. The world surely works in more ways than any ONE'S beliefs can encompass.

And there are surely more ways to navigate through life effectively than tethering oneself to beliefs to a certain degree all along the way.

[Reflex]

Are saying, then, that you DO, after all, qualify your assertion that belief is unnecessary? How the hell is that any different than what I've been saying? It's a question of emphasis: define/believe, yes, but not so rigidly as to suffocate, but also not so ephemeral as to be meaningless.

[ken]

For someone who posits no beliefs, Lacewing sure has a lot of them. Ken, too, for that matter.

Just maybe reflex sees and defines the word 'believe' differently from ken. What exactly does reflex think I mean when i use the word believe?

If ken allegedly has a lot of beliefs as you say, then name just one, and then let us all see if reflex is remotely open enough to see and understand what ken writes following that.

[ken]

who is going to get into a discussion and then have to admit defeat or that they are wrong?

Also, just because you have a certain way of looking and doing this does in no way mean all others are the exact same as dontaskme.

You obviously do not read my posts throughly. In fact you are so dumb and blind, I'm actually starting to feel really sorry and embarrassed for you.

Maybe i OBVIOUSLY, to you, do not read thoroughly enough, unlike 'you' do, but there is no need to feel really sorry nor embarrassed at all for me. I am not worth it. I have also been accused of looking too deeply and thus too thoroughly also. So i do not know what i could do better.

I've stated many times in this thread that we each hold our own unique truth...and that ken,means that each individual will see reality as they see it, and it matters not how another one sees it, they'll either take what they need and reject what they don't...or they will not bother to read here at all. I'm not here to force this down peoples throat and say this is gospel truth believe it at your peril. If people are reading this thread it's usually because they either share an interest in the topic or they just can't resist poking in their nose with smarmy little irrelevant comments to make themselves feel good.

By your response here I think you may have lost my point completely. But you do not have to feel anything bad because it is all my fault. If you can not understand me, then i need to learn how to write gooderer. Thus the reason i am here to learn from you.

You were asking a question, which i answered, and which was completely opposite of the point you were trying to make. I have already answered i do get into discussions to admit defeat and that I was totally wrong if in fact that is proven. 'I' am in so many ways completely and utterly different from 'you'.

What you were thinking and assuming when you wrote a question AND answered it yourself is very obvious to me. So i pointed out that just because you think a certain way and/or you answer a question a certain way do not assume ALL others think the same way as you do, which is exactly what you wiĺl notice you were doing if you re-read this post thoroughly enough.

[Hobbes' Choice]

An entire thread where no one is talking about anything. Or is every one talking about nothing.

[ken]

Hmm... and yet I have a very successful life that I live consciously and with gratitude every day. Wonder how that's possible?

Your unconscious beliefs.

Lacewing, I know EXACTLY what you and Ken are talking about. Been there, done that. It was just a phase I went through. I eventually put it behind me as a childish fantasy.

And you really don't see the irony in what you're saying?

Are you saying here that you were born with no beliefs, then started gaining and maintaining beliefs, then stopped having beliefs, and then started gaining and holding onto beliefs again?

Also, if you stopped having beliefs for a "childish phase" which if you are still with us means that you must of functioned through it, then that would be more proof that we can actually function without beliefs.

By the way are you absolutely sure you know exactly what me and lancewing are talking about? From my perspective it appears you do not.

I do not know of any child, nor any adult for that matter, that fantasizes about not having beliefs. A person either sees what having and maintaining beliefs can do and so just stops having them or they do not.

[ken]

Ken, having a "view," which you do say you have, entails belief. I already gave you an example of what looks like a pretty strong belief that you have. That, by itself, invalidates the thrust of everything you say about you not having any beliefs or disbeliefs. However, you have too much of yourself invested in your belief in your lack of belief and disbelief to to let go easily.

Beliefs come in gradations and is not necessarily an assumption of knowledge. That would be a barrier to growth. We all have beliefs: openness (not-knowing) is not a lack of belief -- belief provides us with the structure we need in order to function creatively in the world -- but the ability to accommodate new experience and information without prejudice.

I have had this discussion previously. I said i have on beliefs. They said that i must have a belief. Because i actually had no beliefs i was truly open to what they said so i thought that if i MUST have a belief, then that belief is a belief in the Self. As i have said to you previosly that i do have a belief in the Self and Its ability to create, do and achieve anything that It really wants.

So, as you said, in order to function creatively in the world then i do have one belief, and one only, as just described. I however unlike you neither disbeieve nor believe (in) anything else.

[Dontaskme]

An entire thread where no one is talking about anything. Or is every one talking about nothing.

Words are an auditory illusion of sound...we speak sounds and not words, but hear words and not sounds. Words build a universe and a whole fake reality takes shape in the form of silence sounding.Written words appearing on a computer screen are an optical illusion of light.

[Hobbes' Choice]

An entire thread where no one is talking about anything. Or is every one talking about nothing.

Words are an auditory illusion of sound...we speak sounds and not words, but hear words and not sounds. Words build a universe and a whole fake reality takes shape in the form of silence sounding.Written words appearing on a computer screen are an optical illusion of light.

Thanks for the self refuting post.

[ken]

Words are an auditory illusion of sound...we speak sounds and not words, but hear words and not sounds. Words build a universe and a whole fake reality takes shape in the form of silence sounding.Written words appearing on a computer screen are an optical illusion of light.

This sort of talk sounds very familiar to all the other well known religions. "We actually do not know what we are talking about but we will respond to your questions with answers like 'there are some things that we are not meant to know', 'because we do not know the answer so no one else could know how to answer it also', or 'there is no answer', etc., etc., etc."

dontaskme, how many people do you really expect to know exactly what you mean when you write things like "Written words appearing on a computer screen are an optical illusion of light?

Do you also suggest the computer screen is some sort of illusion also?

[ken]

Ahhh ok, now I am understanding more here. Some people are like "golden childs", right? ....Wrong!

Are these ones born with enlightenment or are they born to become enlightened? .....No!

You yourself dontaskme were the one who wrote people are born the way they are, only some people are capable of somethings, e.g., a brain surgeon, enlightened, etc.

What are you saying now, your answers seem contradictory from what you said previously BUT one word answers do not really give to much away.

Maybe you are not really sure of what it is that you are trying to say?

[ken]

Also, did you not have a judgmental view about deciding in not having anything further to say and so commented about some one else "giving up" also, before in this post?

Yes you are correct, I said people are only interested in winning their opponent over to their side of the debate, including me...

The intelligent people that I know of are not inerested at all in doing that. In fact the intelligent ones do the exact opposite of what you yourself do here. Truly intelligent people stay truly open so that they are then able to see, find and discover Truth.

[ken]

Thank you for sharing your beliefs, Lacewing. (Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?) As always, your sanctimonious comments are the epitome of empty-headedness.

I'm all for "openness." Openness is critical to personal growth. But beliefs are the rungs on the ladder of personal growth and indeed the very foundation civilization is built on. All of history is one of old beliefs being discarded and replaced by new and (hopefully, but not always) better beliefs, but not no beliefs.

It's always easier to demonize beliefs than to formulate superior ones.

I did not see one belief in lancewing's comments. To me Lancwing only provide how they saw things.