bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:02 pm
Time is a fundamental entity with the following properties: It exists at an infinitesimal interval so-called now, It changes, it allows change to occurs.
So, you are saying the THING that allows change to occur actually changes itself also anyway, correct?
Yes.
Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
'God' can also be expressed as a 'fundamental entity', with the following properties: It exists, at an infinitesimal interval so-called now. It changes, and It allows change to occur. But NO one is wiser nor closer to understanding what it IS that you are actually talking about.
Everything changes at now. God also is subject to time.
Do you purposely mean to come across as COMPLETELY and UTTERLY NOT understanding any thing at all about what it is that I am pointing out?
So, now I have to ask you what is this 'God' thing?
Is it any thing like this 'time' thing, which you talk about but are completely AND utterly unable to explain, describe, and define?
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
In other words, What is 'time'?
Can you tell me what an electron is?
If I was asserting that I KNEW what it was and what it did, then YES I would be able to tell you what an electron IS.
However, I do NOT like to go and assert things that I am unable to explain, describe, nor define, therefore I do NOT do that.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmElectron is an entity with the specific properties. The same applies to time. Time is an entity with the specific properties, as it stated several times.
And LOL this is way beyond any kind of joke now.
What it appears that you are REALLY asserting now IS, to you, 'time' is some thing but in all truth you have absolutely NO idea what it even could be, let alone what 'time' IS, correct?
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
If you can NOT define it and can NOT explain it, then that would infer that it is NOTHING more than just some conception you have, and thus NOT some REAL actual existing THING.
What do you want me to explain?
What you assert is TRUE and REAL.
If you want to propose that you KNOW some thing, then I want to be at least able to explain what it is that you are proposing.
What else could you think I wanted you to explain?
You ASSERT 'time' is a real THING. So, I WANT you to explain what 'time' IS.
I thought the question I posed to you which was;
What is 'time', exactly? might have given you a clue as to what I WANT you to explain, exactly.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
You can for the rest of your life keep insisting that 'time' exists, and that 'time' changes, and that 'time' allows change to occur, but your insistence does NOT mean that 'time' is some actual REAL THING.
To me, 'time' is some actual REAL THING as 'time' is just the name or label used when 'you', human beings, take measurements between two perceived different events or points. BUT, 'time' is NOTHING else than that.
Where are two points located?
Wherever 'you', the human being, places them
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pm Is a duration for reaching from one point to another point?
The question does not appear, to me anyway, as though it is asking some thing fully.
To me, a 'duration' is the measured distance between two points. For example, the answer to the question; How long did it take to get from one named "point" to another named "point"? would be the 'duration'.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:02 pm
It means that it is not made of something else. It simply exists.
Is this like 'fairies in the garden' are not made of something else, they just simply exist, to some people?
No, it is like electron, quarks, etc.
I think you might find this is a little bit different as electrons, quarks, et cetera can be observed or measured with tools, whereas, to me 'time' can not be observed nor measured with tools, as it is the actually measuring of things, taken from tools, clocks, watches, et cetera, which is what the word 'time' relates to and/or defines.
What does 'time', to you, actually look like when observed or measured?
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:02 pm
Time is an entity that allows change to occur.
You have told us a few times now that 'time' is an 'entity', AND, I have asked you a few times now to tell us what this 'entity' actually IS.
What do you mean with what?
I NEVER said any thing about "with what".
But if you want to KNOW what I want you tell us 'with', then I suggest 'with' those fingers on a keypad.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmWhat is your answer when I ask what is an electron?
The same as I gave you before. I am NOT even asserting an electron exists, therefore I do NOT have to KNOW what an electron IS exactly. But if I did WANT to know, and/or did then want to share the answer with you, then I would look up some scientific literature to find the answer.
Is there ANY scientific literature that actually explains what 'time' IS exactly?
If no, then WHY do you say that 'time' is an 'entity'?
If yes, then WHY do you NOT just read that "scientific literature", and then tell us what 'time' actually IS?
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:02 pm
Change means that one state of affair turns into another state of affair.
Besides the fact you keep repeating this, and I have told you to explain what 'affair' means in relation to this, I do NOT think you will find disagreement that CHANGE occurs with any one here, in this forum.
What I am trying to UNDERSTAND is what is 'time' exactly, because you keep insisting that 'time' is some thing that exists and which change could NOT occur without this THING called 'time', then that implies you KNOW what 'time' actually IS. So, why do you NOT just tell us what 'time' IS? Saying 'time' is an 'entity' says and means NOTHING at all, well to me anyway.
For example, some people keep insisting that 'God' is an entity, which exists, and which allows other things to occur. BUT, if these people who INSIST that they KNOW this do NOT explain what 'God', Itself, actually IS, then, to me, they really are saying NOTHING at all. Other than just expressing their own personal BELIEFS, which they obviously can NOT justify NOR prove is true, right, nor correct.
You need to tell me what do you mean with "what is time?"
Okay. But why do I 'NEED TO'?
If we have to go backwards to the very beginning of learning how to understand what it is that "another" person is saying, then, when an adult human being like yourself starts telling us, still learning and less knowing ones, that either 'time' exists or that 'God' exists, then us, who are still inquisitive and OPEN, tend to wonder; What is this 'thing' actually that these older human beings tell us exist but can NOT tell us what 'it' IS actually. So, what we, of the lesser knowledgeable do, is to ask 'you', of the older age, What is this 'thing' [either 'time' or 'God'] in which you speak of. This is like if you were to tell us about a 'tree' or a 'sailing' ship, and we had not yet had any experience at all of either. We would say some thing like; What is a 'tree'? Or, What is a sailing 'ship'? And then, if you actually KNEW what you were actually talking about, either through observations and/or experiences, then you would, hopefully, explain what you KNEW to us. But, if you did NOT because either you could NOT or just would NOT, then we become VERY DISINTERESTED in what you are saying, and usually just give up listening to you, which is what I USED TO DO.
I, however, now like to POINT OUT and SHOW the inconsistencies of what 'you', human beings, who say, or make out, that you actually KNOW some thing as well as ask you to CLARIFY what you actually ASSERT is the truth. I do this because then either I LEARN more and/or anew. I either LEARN that what I thought was right is actually wrong OR I LEARN that what I think is right might even be MORE right now.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:02 pm
What we experience on a clock is motion in two states of affair. A system simply changes. Time, however, cannot be measured by any instrument since there is no way that an instrument can interact with time.
Could this be because there is NO such THING as 'time', itself?
No. Time is not similar to any other thing that you know, electron for example.
HOW would you KNOW what I "know", AND that 'time' is NOT similar to ANY of those things.
You are just appearing to say more absurd things now, in order to just STICK to what you ALREADY BELIEVE is the Truth of things.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:37 am
bahman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:02 pm
Time is an entity that allows change to occur. It is this thing which I am describing.
LOL
"good" 'TRY' but it is just NOT working.
'God' is an entity that allows creation to occur. 'God' is this thing which I am describing. So, do you now KNOW what 'God' IS?
God, Itself is subject to time if there is any.
LOL you will NOT stop 'trying', will you?
1. You did NOT answer the ACTUAL clarifying question.
2. HOW do you KNOW 'God', Itself is "subject to time"?
3. When you say, "if there is any", then are you referring to 'time' or to 'God'?
And of course there is a 'God'. It is an entity, that creates. It is 'this' THING, which I am describing.
Therefore, 'It' MUST BE TRUE.
Surely you can SEE and UNDERSTAND this?