What Hard Problem?

[popeye1945]

There is a difference between a simulated reality and a dream. A simulation could be consciously created, as for example a computer simulation. A dream is not a simulation of any particular reality, it is its own reality.
Our minds are not expansive enough or powerful enough to dream a universal dream reality. In our dreams our dream people are not conscious. While we are conscious within the universal dream, it is not our dream.
A deity’s consciousness in contrast can be divided into both dreaming consciousness and non-dreaming consciousness with the dreaming consciousness resulting from a play of ideas on it by the awake consciousness of the deity who can simultaneously be both dreaming and awake; consciously transcendent to the dream.

Yeah, but the dreamer is the choreographer, how does one express one's self in relation to others and the context of the inner world in general. It is interesting to try to interpret one's dreams, sometimes it is self-evident of what significant aspects of the nightly drama mean to one. Other aspects of dreams, maybe elements of childhood long forgotten consciously, this is one reason it is so difficult to understand sometimes what any individual in any given time frame is reacting to, one thing certain is that it is all process. The conscious and the subconsciousnes and their interactions contribute to one's ever-growing identity and behaviors of the moment.

The mind of the dreamer does not consciously choreograph anything as it is asleep while the subconscious mind is active. There may be nonsense dreams; a processing of the events of the day.

There is an interplay between the conscious and the subconscious to the degree that consciousness feeds into the subconscious and the subconscious speaks to what is deemed the conscious activities/behaviors of the day. I think Jung established that pretty certainly.


Ancient kings were right to have a dream interpreter for dreams that were significant, especially dreams that were prophetic, advising of the likely outcome of a potential conflict with an adversary. Whether it was better to go full speed ahead or stay low until a more auspicious time. The fates being suitably aligned for victory being considered of the utmost importance. As the saying goes, timing is everything. [/quote]

That would be mind reading without much in the way of credibility. They would be far better off consulting the book, "The Art of War."

If consciousness is the substance of everything, a universal subconsciousness that tosses everything up into manifestation, it is not a hard problem, as we could understand it from our own experience in dreams. If it is not, then the hard problem remains, what is it? If dumb matter evolved it, evolved in this case meaning created it, that would be miraculous. [/quote]

Consciousness was assumed by Spinoza to arise from substance/God, but we know now that energy is the more fundamental; and we at least suspect that there are only things/objects for a conscious subject, the conscious subject being itself energy. In which case all is the interplay of energy fields. Just as we were wrong calling space empty so too, we are wrong calling matter inanimate, if inferring inactivity, for its all energy in a grand play of energies, out of which life as consciousness arose.

If it was always there until being unsheathed through evolution in the four kingdoms, mineral, plant, animal, and human, with its destination being Superman, unity with Itself, as they perceive it to be in the East, it would have a purpose. A dream creation and a final waking up from the dream with the dream and dreamer united in one conscious mind. As happens with us when we wake from our nightly dreams. [/quote]

To dream a dream where it might seem---------------?


The Western perspective that matter created it makes matter godlike and that is how materialists perceive matter.

Surely that is old school now that we know all is energy.

The two views may be compatible if consciousness is considered to be the substance of everything. The only thing to be resolved is whether it is just dreaming consciousness alone, or both, a dreaming consciousness and a consciousness that is transcendent to the dream. The latter appears more likely, as it would make sense of it all.

For a while yet, ultimate reality will remain a shadow world.

[owl of Minerva]

Yeah, but the dreamer is the choreographer, how does one express one's self in relation to others and the context of the inner world in general. It is interesting to try to interpret one's dreams, sometimes it is self-evident of what significant aspects of the nightly drama mean to one. Other aspects of dreams, maybe elements of childhood long forgotten consciously, this is one reason it is so difficult to understand sometimes what any individual in any given time frame is reacting to, one thing certain is that it is all process. The conscious and the subconsciousnes and their interactions contribute to one's ever-growing identity and behaviors of the moment.

The mind of the dreamer does not consciously choreograph anything as it is asleep while the subconscious mind is active. There may be nonsense dreams; a processing of the events of the day.

There is an interplay between the conscious and the subconscious to the degree that consciousness feeds into the subconscious and the subconscious speaks to what is deemed the conscious activities/behaviors of the day. I think Jung established that pretty certainly.


Ancient kings were right to have a dream interpreter for dreams that were significant, especially dreams that were prophetic, advising of the likely outcome of a potential conflict with an adversary. Whether it was better to go full speed ahead or stay low until a more auspicious time. The fates being suitably aligned for victory being considered of the utmost importance. As the saying goes, timing is everything.

That would be mind reading without much in the way of credibility. They would be far better off consulting the book, "The Art of War."

If consciousness is the substance of everything, a universal subconsciousness that tosses everything up into manifestation, it is not a hard problem, as we could understand it from our own experience in dreams. If it is not, then the hard problem remains, what is it? If dumb matter evolved it, evolved in this case meaning created it, that would be miraculous. [/quote]

Consciousness was assumed by Spinoza to arise from substance/God, but we know now that energy is the more fundamental; and we at least suspect that there are only things/objects for a conscious subject, the conscious subject being itself energy. In which case all is the interplay of energy fields. Just as we were wrong calling space empty so too, we are wrong calling matter inanimate, if inferring inactivity, for its all energy in a grand play of energies, out of which life as consciousness arose.

If it was always there until being unsheathed through evolution in the four kingdoms, mineral, plant, animal, and human, with its destination being Superman, unity with Itself, as they perceive it to be in the East, it would have a purpose. A dream creation and a final waking up from the dream with the dream and dreamer united in one conscious mind. As happens with us when we wake from our nightly dreams. [/quote]

To dream a dream where it might seem---------------?


The Western perspective that matter created it makes matter godlike and that is how materialists perceive matter.

Surely that is old school now that we know all is energy.

The two views may be compatible if consciousness is considered to be the substance of everything. The only thing to be resolved is whether it is just dreaming consciousness alone, or both, a dreaming consciousness and a consciousness that is transcendent to the dream. The latter appears more likely, as it would make sense of it all.

For a while yet, ultimate reality will remain a shadow world.
[/quote]

True. Objective knowing, as in science, is not enough. It is just objective facts. Intuitive knowledge is better but that cannot be conveyed because when it is, it too becomes objective, capable of being understood, or not, or totally misunderstood and turned into something else entirely.

It has been said that Christ was crucified once and his teaching has been crucified multiple times since.

[popeye1945]

Objective knowing, as in science, is not enough. It is just objective facts. Intuitive knowledge is better but that cannot be conveyed because when it is, it too becomes objective, capable of being understood, or not, or totally misunderstood and turned into something else entirely.
It has been said that Christ was crucified once and his teaching has been crucified multiple times since. [/quote]


There is no objective knowing, the energies that surround us affect the organism's body and are processed through the understanding at which time those energies become things/objects. So, the only thing that can be said to be objective is energy. There are only objects for biological consciousness, that is why Einstein stated; that he believed the moon was there whether it was being observed or not, but he was wrong. In the absence of a conscious subject there is no physical world, no object. This is why I have stated, biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Experience is knowledge, they are one and the same thing; they are what given energies mean to the body and understanding of the organism.

[VVilliam]

What is a dream but a simulated reality experience?

There is a difference between a simulated reality and a dream. A simulation could be consciously created, as for example a computer simulation. A dream is not a simulation of any particular reality, it is its own reality.
Our minds are not expansive enough or powerful enough to dream a universal dream reality. In our dreams our dream people are not conscious. While we are conscious within the universal dream, it is not our dream.
A deity’s consciousness in contrast can be divided into both dreaming consciousness and non-dreaming consciousness with the dreaming consciousness resulting from a play of ideas on it by the awake consciousness of the deity who can simultaneously be both dreaming and awake; consciously transcendent to the dream.

Yeah, but the dreamer is the choreographer, how does one express one's self in relation to others and the context of the inner world in general. It is interesting to try to interpret one's dreams, sometimes it is self-evident of what significant aspects of the nightly drama mean to one. Other aspects of dreams, maybe elements of childhood long forgotten consciously, this is one reason it is so difficult to understand sometimes what any individual in any given time frame is reacting to, one thing certain is that it is all process. The conscious and the subconsciousnes and their interactions contribute to one's ever-growing identity and behaviors of the moment.

I was speaking more to the idea that a Creator has dreamed what we call "reality" and in that sense, the Creators Dream can be understood as a Simulation which we within said dream, experience as real.
Thus, we are experiencing a Reality Simulation.

This idea is also related to a discussion I just had, which I posted here.

[popeye1945]

There is a difference between a simulated reality and a dream. A simulation could be consciously created, as for example a computer simulation. A dream is not a simulation of any particular reality, it is its own reality.
Our minds are not expansive enough or powerful enough to dream a universal dream reality. In our dreams our dream people are not conscious. While we are conscious within the universal dream, it is not our dream.
A deity’s consciousness in contrast can be divided into both dreaming consciousness and non-dreaming consciousness with the dreaming consciousness resulting from a play of ideas on it by the awake consciousness of the deity who can simultaneously be both dreaming and awake; consciously transcendent to the dream.

Yeah, but the dreamer is the choreographer, how does one express one's self in relation to others and the context of the inner world in general. It is interesting to try to interpret one's dreams, sometimes it is self-evident of what significant aspects of the nightly drama mean to one. Other aspects of dreams, maybe elements of childhood long forgotten consciously, this is one reason it is so difficult to understand sometimes what any individual in any given time frame is reacting to, one thing certain is that it is all process. The conscious and the subconsciousnes and their interactions contribute to one's ever-growing identity and behaviors of the moment.

I was speaking more to the idea that a Creator has dreamed what we call "reality" and in that sense, the Creators Dream can be understood as a Simulation which we within said dream, experience as real.
Thus, we are experiencing a Reality Simulation.

This idea is also related to a discussion I just had, which I posted here.

Apparent reality you might say is like a dream, for it is the effect of surrounding energies altering one's biology that creates an interpretation of said dream energies as apparent reality. There is only an object for biological consciousness, in the same way, that there is sound only for biological consciousness.

[owl of Minerva]

Objective knowing, as in science, is not enough. It is just objective facts. Intuitive knowledge is better but that cannot be conveyed because when it is, it too becomes objective, capable of being understood, or not, or totally misunderstood and turned into something else entirely.
It has been said that Christ was crucified once and his teaching has been crucified multiple times since.

There is no objective knowing, the energies that surround us affect the organism's body and are processed through the understanding at which time those energies become things/objects. So, the only thing that can be said to be objective is energy. There are only objects for biological consciousness, that is why Einstein stated; that he believed the moon was there whether it was being observed or not, but he was wrong. In the absence of a conscious subject there is no physical world, no object. This is why I have stated, biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Experience is knowledge, they are one and the same thing; they are what given energies mean to the body and understanding of the organism.
[/quote]

owl of Minerva:

If energy is an expression of consciousness, then space, the quantum field is out there. It there there was no space, no out there, there would be no screen for the play of ideas on substance. If, as appears likely we, and what we perceive, are reflections similar to the moon on a lake: a soul or ray of light, consciousness, mind, plus biology, we cannot say that “biology is the measure and the meaning of all things.”

If we start at the visibly tangible; biology, as materialists do, we are starting at the end point of the devolution of consciousness and energy and not at the beginning. Physicists in contrast to biologists are close to the beginning. Biology is the start of evolution, which it is primary to, nothing more.

As everything physical enters the worldwide web so could we transcend body consciousness, mind consciousness, and soul consciousness to Infinite consciousness, fully manifested rather that just reflected.

Consciousness itself is quite other to its expressions, including energy, never tangible, never visible, accessible through experience only with existence being primary to its being experienced, Objective knowing does exist as perception. We cannot deny that we experience ourselves as subjects experiencing an objective world out there which we take to be real. The observer freezes its dance and turns it into something meaningful.

[owl of Minerva]

There is a difference between a simulated reality and a dream. A simulation could be consciously created, as for example a computer simulation. A dream is not a simulation of any particular reality, it is its own reality.
Our minds are not expansive enough or powerful enough to dream a universal dream reality. In our dreams our dream people are not conscious. While we are conscious within the universal dream, it is not our dream.
A deity’s consciousness in contrast can be divided into both dreaming consciousness and non-dreaming consciousness with the dreaming consciousness resulting from a play of ideas on it by the awake consciousness of the deity who can simultaneously be both dreaming and awake; consciously transcendent to the dream.

Yeah, but the dreamer is the choreographer, how does one express one's self in relation to others and the context of the inner world in general. It is interesting to try to interpret one's dreams, sometimes it is self-evident of what significant aspects of the nightly drama mean to one. Other aspects of dreams, maybe elements of childhood long forgotten consciously, this is one reason it is so difficult to understand sometimes what any individual in any given time frame is reacting to, one thing certain is that it is all process. The conscious and the subconsciousnes and their interactions contribute to one's ever-growing identity and behaviors of the moment.

I was speaking more to the idea that a Creator has dreamed what we call "reality" and in that sense, the Creators Dream can be understood as a Simulation which we within said dream, experience as real.
Thus, we are experiencing a Reality Simulation.

This idea is also related to a discussion I just had, which I posted here.

I do not disagree with that, it being a dream but we sometimes associate simulation to something done by humans as virtual reality or as some thing some alien intelligence might do. That is why I, personally, stick with dream and do not use simulation or associate what we experience with that word as it, for me, has other lesser connotations than the dream of an Infinite Reality.

[VVilliam]

Yeah, but the dreamer is the choreographer, how does one express one's self in relation to others and the context of the inner world in general. It is interesting to try to interpret one's dreams, sometimes it is self-evident of what significant aspects of the nightly drama mean to one. Other aspects of dreams, maybe elements of childhood long forgotten consciously, this is one reason it is so difficult to understand sometimes what any individual in any given time frame is reacting to, one thing certain is that it is all process. The conscious and the subconsciousnes and their interactions contribute to one's ever-growing identity and behaviors of the moment.

I was speaking more to the idea that a Creator has dreamed what we call "reality" and in that sense, the Creators Dream can be understood as a Simulation which we within said dream, experience as real.
Thus, we are experiencing a Reality Simulation.

This idea is also related to a discussion I just had, which I posted here.

I do not disagree with that, it being a dream but we sometimes associate simulation to something done by humans as virtual reality or as some thing some alien intelligence might do. That is why I, personally, stick with dream and do not use simulation or associate what we experience with that word as it, for me, has other lesser connotations than the dream of an Infinite Reality.

What I do is try to understand the patterns within the reality experience. Humans have reached the stage where we can create simulations and are thus repeating a pattern.

[popeye1945]

Objective knowing, as in science, is not enough. It is just objective facts. Intuitive knowledge is better but that cannot be conveyed because when it is, it too becomes objective, capable of being understood, or not, or totally misunderstood and turned into something else entirely.
It has been said that Christ was crucified once and his teaching has been crucified multiple times since.

There is no objective knowing, the energies that surround us affect the organism's body and are processed through the understanding at which time those energies become things/objects. So, the only thing that can be said to be objective is energy. There are only objects for biological consciousness, that is why Einstein stated; that he believed the moon was there whether it was being observed or not, but he was wrong. In the absence of a conscious subject there is no physical world, no object. This is why I have stated, biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Experience is knowledge, they are one and the same thing; they are what given energies mean to the body and understanding of the organism.

owl of Minerva:

If energy is an expression of consciousness, then space, the quantum field is out there. If there was no space, no out there, there would be no screen for the play of ideas on substance. If, as appears likely we, and what we perceive, are reflections similar to the moon on a lake: a soul or ray of light, consciousness, mind, plus biology, we cannot say that “biology is the measure and the meaning of all things.” [/quote]

I believe I am missing your point, there is only one type of knowing, and that is subjective knowing. Energy is the expression of everything for a conscious subject, and nothing if it is not perceived/processed through biology. The reflection you mention biologizes creation through biological processes of apparent reality. That which is called apparent it is true only to the biology experiencing it, there is in fact only energy. If you think of space as empty you are mistaken, for it is a field of energy like, almost, like a living tissue out of which things pop in and out of existence for a conscious awareness.

If we start at the visibly tangible; biology, as materialists do, we are starting at the end point of the devolution of consciousness and energy and not at the beginning. Physicists, in contrast to biologists, are close to the beginning. Biology is the start of evolution, which is primary to nothing more. [/quote]

Yes, that is the new understanding, if we are to advance further in our quest to understand reality whether that be apparent of ultimate reality; we must think in terms of energy, frequencies, vibrations and fields, this is the original chemistry that has created and maintains itself, for there is no separation.

As everything physical enters the worldwide web so could we transcend body consciousness, mind consciousness, and soul consciousness to Infinite consciousness, fully manifested rather than just reflected. [/quote]

We most definitely are something larger than ourselves, as I have stated before, there is no such thing as independent existents. Soul consciousness you're going to have to define that for me. This transmission that you speak of through the world wide web is energy reflecting back at you what your biology already conjures on its own, the real insight is, it is all energy.

Consciousness itself is quite other to its expressions, including energy, never tangible, never visible, accessible through experience only with existence being primary to its being experienced, Objective knowing does exist as perception. We cannot deny that we experience ourselves as subjects experiencing an objective world out there which we take to be real. The observer freezes its dance and turns it into something meaningful.
[/quote]

Yours is a different way of saying what I have been saying all along. There are only object/s for biological consciousness, and consciousness takes in all life forms. Consciousness is not something an organism has or has not, consciousness is organism. What we experience is what we call apparent reality the world of objects, but what is, is energy.

At the beginning of your post, you misquoted me. I would never bring in fictional characters such as Jesus into a rational conversation. Not to worry, misquoting pops up here and there in these threads, but it does create a bit of confusion.

[owl of Minerva]

Objective knowing, as in science, is not enough. It is just objective facts. Intuitive knowledge is better but that cannot be conveyed because when it is, it too becomes objective, capable of being understood, or not, or totally misunderstood and turned into something else entirely.
It has been said that Christ was crucified once and his teaching has been crucified multiple times since.

There is no objective knowing, the energies that surround us affect the organism's body and are processed through the understanding at which time those energies become things/objects. So, the only thing that can be said to be objective is energy. There are only objects for biological consciousness, that is why Einstein stated; that he believed the moon was there whether it was being observed or not, but he was wrong. In the absence of a conscious subject there is no physical world, no object. This is why I have stated, biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Experience is knowledge, they are one and the same thing; they are what given energies mean to the body and understanding of the organism.

owl of Minerva:

If energy is an expression of consciousness, then space, the quantum field is out there. If there was no space, no out there, there would be no screen for the play of ideas on substance. If, as appears likely we, and what we perceive, are reflections similar to the moon on a lake: a soul or ray of light, consciousness, mind, plus biology, we cannot say that “biology is the measure and the meaning of all things.”

I believe I am missing your point, there is only one type of knowing, and that is subjective knowing. Energy is the expression of everything for a conscious subject, and nothing if it is not perceived/processed through biology. The reflection you mention biologizes creation through biological processes of apparent reality. That which is called apparent it is true only to the biology experiencing it, there is in fact only energy. If you think of space as empty you are mistaken, for it is a field of energy like, almost, like a living tissue out of which things pop in and out of existence for a conscious awareness.

If we start at the visibly tangible; biology, as materialists do, we are starting at the end point of the devolution of consciousness and energy and not at the beginning. Physicists, in contrast to biologists, are close to the beginning. Biology is the start of evolution, which is primary to nothing more. [/quote]

Yes, that is the new understanding, if we are to advance further in our quest to understand reality whether that be apparent of ultimate reality; we must think in terms of energy, frequencies, vibrations and fields, this is the original chemistry that has created and maintains itself, for there is no separation.

As everything physical enters the worldwide web so could we transcend body consciousness, mind consciousness, and soul consciousness to Infinite consciousness, fully manifested rather than just reflected. [/quote]

We most definitely are something larger than ourselves, as I have stated before, there is no such thing as independent existents. Soul consciousness you're going to have to define that for me. This transmission that you speak of through the world wide web is energy reflecting back at you what your biology already conjures on its own, the real insight is, it is all energy.

Consciousness itself is quite other to its expressions, including energy, never tangible, never visible, accessible through experience only with existence being primary to its being experienced, Objective knowing does exist as perception. We cannot deny that we experience ourselves as subjects experiencing an objective world out there which we take to be real. The observer freezes its dance and turns it into something meaningful.
[/quote]

Yours is a different way of saying what I have been saying all along. There are only object/s for biological consciousness, and consciousness takes in all life forms. Consciousness is not something an organism has or has not, consciousness is organism. What we experience is what we call apparent reality the world of objects, but what is, is energy.

At the beginning of your post, you misquoted me. I would never bring in fictional characters such as Jesus into a rational conversation. Not to worry, misquoting pops up here and there in these threads, but it does create a bit of confusion.
[/quote]




owl of Minerva response paragraph by paragraph, point by point is as follows:


If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly, consciousness is all and all is consciousness. What that would mean, to start at the beginning, what lies behind the elemental organic world we see and inhabit are states of being as follows:

Consciousness predates organisms and it also predates energy. What is manifest in the material world begins with consciousness, (l) then light, (2) then magnetism polarized by intelligence and sense mind, (3) which leads to the polarized magnetic field (4), which leads to the polarized forces (5) (strong and weak) balanced by the neutral force. The substance of all being consciousness.

The only external force is the weak force, whose substance is also consciousness, (the light that fell from heaven) or if you prefer, what is visible to the naked eye, all above mentioned being invisible to the naked eye. All gradually being discovered by material science and physics (what lies behind matter) which so far is more about the forces themselves than the interactions between forces. Science is about discovering and understanding things, not so much about interactions, meaning, or ultimate ends.

It was not my intention to misquote you.

On fictional characters, if you want to see anyone as a fictional character that is alright with me, we are all entitled to our opinions. Many view the aviators of East or West as indicators of our evolutionary journey. Here is where we are where someday you will be in your evolutionary journey. That is how they are viewed by many. The prophets are so many and predate Christianity that if all are fictional, even the ones that were put to death, which was the fate of most, especially in the West, prior to their messages gaining traction. Either they are right, not wrong, or humanity, in its ultimate wisdom, was, and is, wrong, not right. There are many who are inclined to bet on the latter.

[popeye1945]

owl of Minerva response paragraph by paragraph, point by point is as follows:


If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly, consciousness is all and all is consciousness. What that would mean, to start at the beginning, what lies behind the elemental organic world we see and inhabit are states of being as follows:
Consciousness predates organisms and it also predates energy. What is manifest in the material world begins with consciousness, (l) then light, (2) then magnetism polarized by intelligence and sense mind, (3) which leads to the polarized magnetic field (4), which leads to the polarized forces (5) (strong and weak) balanced by the neutral force. The substance of all being consciousness.

Consciousness is the creator of the material world, as in the world as object/s for it is through the processes of biology that energy becomes manifest as things/objects, when in fact all there really is, is energy. So yes, consciousness is the source of the physical, it is a biological readout of the experiences of the body and its consciousness. Just as there is no such thing in the physical world as sound or color so too there is no such thing in the absence of biological consciousness as object, all is energy including the conscious subject. "The substance of all being is consciousness", this is very true, where being represents the physical. Only unmanifested energy can be said to be objective.


The only external force is the weak force, whose substance is also consciousness, (the light that fell from heaven) or if you prefer, what is visible to the naked eye, all above mentioned being invisible to the naked eye. All gradually being discovered by material science and physics (what lies behind matter) which so far is more about the forces themselves than the interactions between forces. Science is about discovering and understanding things, not so much about interactions, meaning, or ultimate ends. [/quote]

Well, I think you're expressing your own thoughts here. Most often we do not see energy but feel its effects in altering our physical body somewhat; it was Spinoza that pointed out that the physical world lets itself be known to us through this process. What Spinoza revealed I just take a step further and say, it is the energies altering our biology which create for us the physical world of objects. Spinoza don't forget was speaking from the seventeenth century. Yes, just as in the physical world where all is interconnected so to, I think, the world of energies, frequencies, vibrations and fields.

It was not my intention to misquote you. [/quote]

Not to worry about it, it happens, I've done it myself no big deal.

On fictional characters, if you want to see anyone as a fictional character that is alright with me, we are all entitled to our opinions. Many view the aviators of the East or West as indicators of our evolutionary journey. Here is where we are, where someday you will be in your evolutionary journey. That is how they are viewed by many. The prophets are so many and predate Christianity that if all are fictional, even the ones that were put to death, which was the fate of most, especially in the West, prior to their messages gaining traction. Either they are right, not wrong, or humanity, in its ultimate wisdom, was, and is, wrong, not right. There are many who are inclined to bet on the latter. [/quote]

Prophets I don't have a problem with, it's all the supernatural nonsense passed on through time I have a problem with, personally I am a son of the morning light.

[owl of Minerva]

owl of Minerva response paragraph by paragraph, point by point is as follows:


If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly, consciousness is all and all is consciousness. What that would mean, to start at the beginning, what lies behind the elemental organic world we see and inhabit are states of being as follows:
Consciousness predates organisms and it also predates energy. What is manifest in the material world begins with consciousness, (l) then light, (2) then magnetism polarized by intelligence and sense mind, (3) which leads to the polarized magnetic field (4), which leads to the polarized forces (5) (strong and weak) balanced by the neutral force. The substance of all being consciousness.

Consciousness is the creator of the material world, as in the world as object/s for it is through the processes of biology that energy becomes manifest as things/objects, when in fact all there really is, is energy. So yes, consciousness is the source of the physical, it is a biological readout of the experiences of the body and its consciousness. Just as there is no such thing in the physical world as sound or color so too there is no such thing in the absence of biological consciousness as object, all is energy including the conscious subject. "The substance of all being is consciousness", this is very true, where being represents the physical. Only unmanifested energy can be said to be objective.


The only external force is the weak force, whose substance is also consciousness, (the light that fell from heaven) or if you prefer, what is visible to the naked eye, all above mentioned being invisible to the naked eye. All gradually being discovered by material science and physics (what lies behind matter) which so far is more about the forces themselves than the interactions between forces. Science is about discovering and understanding things, not so much about interactions, meaning, or ultimate ends.

Well, I think you're expressing your own thoughts here. Most often we do not see energy but feel its effects in altering our physical body somewhat; it was Spinoza that pointed out that the physical world lets itself be known to us through this process. What Spinoza revealed I just take a step further and say, it is the energies altering our biology which create for us the physical world of objects. Spinoza don't forget was speaking from the seventeenth century. Yes, just as in the physical world where all is interconnected so to, I think, the world of energies, frequencies, vibrations and fields.

It was not my intention to misquote you. [/quote]

Not to worry about it, it happens, I've done it myself no big deal.

On fictional characters, if you want to see anyone as a fictional character that is alright with me, we are all entitled to our opinions. Many view the aviators of the East or West as indicators of our evolutionary journey. Here is where we are, where someday you will be in your evolutionary journey. That is how they are viewed by many. The prophets are so many and predate Christianity that if all are fictional, even the ones that were put to death, which was the fate of most, especially in the West, prior to their messages gaining traction. Either they are right, not wrong, or humanity, in its ultimate wisdom, was, and is, wrong, not right. There are many who are inclined to bet on the latter. [/quote]

Prophets I don't have a problem with, it's all the supernatural nonsense passed on through time I have a problem with, personally I am a son of the morning light.
[/quote]



owl of Minerva:

Matter is the weak force, on its own it as dead as a doornail.. Force implemented by consciousness is what animates it, otherwise biology is inert, dead. It is energy animated by the three hidden nuclear forces; the strong, neutral, and weak.

It is good to support prophets, they were severely dealt with in times of greater ignorance. They may be scoffed at today but at least they would not be done away with.

In today’s crazy world those with a messianic complex, threaten us all. They unite myth with reason, modes which should exist always as the separate modalities which they are. A savior complex is a dangerous thing if it is personal, unmoored, and without universal sanction.

Consequently we should all honor the morning light, grateful that a mushroom cloud does not come between us and it.

[Agent Smith]

And so th4y lived happily ever after.