Abortion

[chaz wyman]

Whist the foetus is gestating it is part of the mother,

you are playing fast and loose with the notion of 'part' there chaz

it has a different blood type

it has a different brain

it has a different heart

you are stretching the notion of part there

LEGALLY

A foetus is not yet a person.

begging the question are we

LEGALLY

But one thing is for sure for those wanting to demand that all pregnancies go full terms; it is the matter of the enslavement of the woman to be forced to keep a foetus she does not want.

of course

just as women are enslaved by the idea that if you are still a virgin at 17 you are some kind of fugly loser

THat is your problem.

[Kayla]

legally what?

[chaz wyman]

legally what?

... part of the mother


... not a person.

[Kayla]

i am not sure which laws yo uare talking bout

in any case the question here is not what law are or are not

but the morality of abortion

what laws exist in that regard is not relevant here

[artisticsolution]

"Whilst I maintain the woman's right to choose I also retain the right to verbally admonish any woman who is a persistent aborter."

I agree.

Yep. Although it is thankfully quite rare, there is evidence that a tiny minority of women tend to use it carelessly as an alternative to contraception.

Here is what I don't understand...If you believe it is a woman's right to choose....then I am assuming you don't think abortion is killing a child....so then why is it only okay (morally) to have one abortion? If it is wrong to have many abortions then it seems to me it should be wrong to have one abortion.

This is why I think it all boils down to societies view of woman as their possession rather than an individual who is able to make a free decision over their person. What makes us want to protect the fetus over the mother? What makes us loathe the women who choose themselves and their life over anothers? Just asking cause it seems like there is a disconnect here. How can one be for a woman's right to choose...but then think it's wrong for them to make a certain choice more than once. If it's wrong more than once then it's also wrong once.

[Kayla]

Here is what I don't understand...If you believe it is a woman's right to choose....then I am assuming you don't think abortion is killing a child....so then why is it only okay (morally) to have one abortion? If it is wrong to have many abortions then it seems to me it should be wrong to have one abortion.

good point

even supporters of abortion do not feel entirely comfortable with the notion if you question them closely

and will be willing to condemn to some extent or another women who use it as means of birth control

it makes more sense to see abortion as, in some situations, a necessary evil - but the claim that abortion is a morally neutral medical act does not withstand any sort of philosophical scrutiny

[reasonemotion]

Anti Abortion


"The narrower the range of a person's psychological understanding of life, so correspondingly will the authentic range of his philosophy also be narrow. Without an adequate understanding of life, so the thinker is dependent on imagination and prejudice when trying to stretch his ideas to fit aspects of reality that he has never experienced." (Ian Heath)

[artisticsolution]

Anti Abortion


"The narrower the range of a person's psychological understanding of life, so correspondingly will the authentic range of his philosophy also be narrow. Without an adequate understanding of life, so the thinker is dependent on imagination and prejudice when trying to stretch his ideas to fit aspects of reality that he has never experienced." (Ian Heath)

That quote could be said of most any viewpoint, just depends on which side of the fence you are on.

[chaz wyman]

i am not sure which laws yo uare talking bout

in any case the question here is not what law are or are not

but the morality of abortion

what laws exist in that regard is not relevant here

Laws are the practical expression of all morality.
The laws are 100% relevant.

[chaz wyman]

"Whilst I maintain the woman's right to choose I also retain the right to verbally admonish any woman who is a persistent aborter."

I agree.

Yep. Although it is thankfully quite rare, there is evidence that a tiny minority of women tend to use it carelessly as an alternative to contraception.

Here is what I don't understand...If you believe it is a woman's right to choose....then I am assuming you don't think abortion is killing a child....so then why is it only okay (morally) to have one abortion? If it is wrong to have many abortions then it seems to me it should be wrong to have one abortion.

That's an easy enough question to answer. Abortions can be harmful to the woman's health and future fertility. Abortions are expensive and wasteful of resources. They are provided free in most instances - but as we all know nothing is ultimately free.
But further than that, although I do not consider abortion wrong per se, I think that the whole process is the result of a lack of care, and the act itself is utterly distasteful and to be avoided where possible.
I do not care for the argument that one is the same as many.

This is why I think it all boils down to societies view of woman as their possession rather than an individual who is able to make a free decision over their person. What makes us want to protect the fetus over the mother? What makes us loathe the women who choose themselves and their life over anothers?

I do not recognise your caricature. I do not think any woman that has an abortion in the UK is 'loathed' by the vast majority of people. I know of no one personally who would take that stance - but might agree that serial aborters need to consider their position with some care.

Just asking cause it seems like there is a disconnect here. How can one be for a woman's right to choose...but then think it's wrong for them to make a certain choice more than once. If it's wrong more than once then it's also wrong once.

I think the answer is obvious enough. You might consider an analogy with having your teeth pulled out because you refuse to brush your teeth.

[Kayla]

Laws are the practical expression of all morality.
The laws are 100% relevant.

relevant to what

you cannot conclude from the fact that something is legal that it is moral

at most it is an indicator of what many people think is moral

the question here is whether or not abortion is moral, not whether or not it is in fact legal

[reasonemotion]

Is abortion right or wrong?
There is no one correct answer to this question. Each individual can have different values and beliefs, and therefore a different definition of what is right or wrong. The question to ask is whether or not an abortion is right or wrong for you. It is important for every woman facing this decision to examine her beliefs and wishes, and makes a decision based on what is best for her. A woman considering abortion should make sure the choice is hers alone, and not allow others to pressure her or force her into making a decision she is not comfortable with.

Some statistics
On the basis of current abortion rates, one in three American women will have had an abortion by age 45 according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute. Fifty-two percent of U. S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25 years of age. Women aged 20-24 years obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 19%. Over 60% of abortions are among women who have had 1 or more children. No racial or ethnic group makes up a majority of women having abortions. Eighty-eight percent of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.

Why do women have abortions?
There are a wide variety of reasons why women have abortions. The decision to have an abortion is typically motivated by multiple, diverse, and interrelated reasons. Some women feel having a child would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities they already have. Others have had all the children they want and do not want more. Some women cannot afford to have a child or to have another child. Other women are unmarried or have relationship problems with their partner, and do not want to be a single parent. Some women are very young and not mature enough to handle the responsibility of a child, while others may feel they are too old to have a child, and may be worried about the health risks associated with pregnancy later in life. Birth defects or fetal abnormalities may cause some women to choose abortion, if they feel they cannot care for a disabled child, or if they know that the child would not live after birth. Some women with prior health problems find their own health to be at stake during pregnancy, and may choose abortion in order to preserve or save their own lives. Some women choose to have an abortion if the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest. Hence, there are many reasons why women may choose to have an abortion and many times more than one reason can apply.

I think this covers all aspects.

[chaz wyman]

Laws are the practical expression of all morality.
The laws are 100% relevant.

relevant to what

you cannot conclude from the fact that something is legal that it is moral

I did not say that. I said exactly what I meant to say, not what you wanted me to say.

at most it is an indicator of what many people think is moral

And THAT is exactly why it is relevant. If it were no laws concerning abortion then we would probably not even be discussing it. In fact most of the conversation has revolved around the exact and precise legal structure that best represents the moral normative positions. WHo decides; in what circumstances can it be done; how old is the foetus; was the woman raped etc.. all points addressed by laws.



the question here is whether or not abortion is moral, not whether or not it is in fact legal

Indeed not.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Is having an unwanted child moral?
Is overpopulation moral?
Is telling someone what to do with their body moral?
Is playing god moral?
Is spreading your legs for the fun of it, without contraception moral?
Is spreading someones legs for the fun of it, without contraception moral?
Is killing a fetus moral?
Is raping someone moral?
Is putting your life on the line for a child moral?
Is not putting your life on the line for a child moral?
Is having a child contract AIDS/STD's as a result of childbirth moral?
Is potentially having a child with birth defects moral?
Is having the baby of your father or brother moral?
Does morality exist with a god?
Does morality exist without a god?
Are morals up to each individual depending upon what they believe?
What is morality, who is right and who is wrong, and who is to say?

[chaz wyman]

Is having an unwanted child moral?
Is overpopulation moral?
Is telling someone what to do with their body moral?
Is playing god moral?
Is spreading your legs for the fun of it, without contraception moral?
Is spreading someones legs for the fun of it, without contraception moral?
Is killing a fetus moral?
Is raping someone moral?
Is putting your life on the line for a child moral?
Is not putting your life on the line for a child moral?
Is having a child contract AIDS/STD's as a result of childbirth moral?
Is potentially having a child with birth defects moral?
Is having the baby of your father or brother moral?
Does morality exist with a god?
Does morality exist without a god?
Are morals up to each individual depending upon what they believe?
What is morality, who is right and who is wrong, and who is to say?

I think what you are asking is really not 'is it moral." But is it morally good or bad.
All are moral questions except the questions about God which are epistemological.
But none of these moral questions can be evaluated without the specific context for each event they envisage.

But you also confuse yourself. An act cannot be moral or immoral, per se. I think when you have got that sorted then you will understand ethics. "Killing is immoral" is false. Think about it.
Such statements are impossible.
The last two lines above are evidence that you are finally thinking about the issues that you need to if you are to avoid your usual judgemental position.