A new superpower

[chaz wyman]

But Labour former home secretary Alan Johnson criticised the decision and claimed Mrs May had made a decision which was "in her own party's best interests but it's not in the best interests of this country".

He said: "Gary McKinnon is accused of very serious offences. The US was perfectly within its rights and it was extremely reasonable of them to seek his extradition."

I'm a bit puzzled by Johnson - if he was so keen on extradition why did he not do it whilst Labour were in power?
He's just blowing party political hot air.

[bobevenson]

The disgrace is Europe, not the USA. The European Union is the failed disgrace of the entire planet!

Would you care to elaborate why you find this to be so?

Europe thinks it can become another United States, but that's absolutely laughable since you can't bring disparate languages and cultures under a single umbrella. That's as big a joke as the stupid Euro!

[chaz wyman]

The disgrace is Europe, not the USA. The European Union is the failed disgrace of the entire planet!

Would you care to elaborate why you find this to be so?

Europe thinks it can become another United States, but that's absolutely laughable since you can't bring disparate languages and cultures under a single umbrella. That's as big a joke as the stupid Euro!

What is really laughable is that most Americans dislike their own Federal authority and would be more happy with what we have in Europe, and funnily enough you have stated that yourself.

As it is in purchasing power and GDP, Europe outstrips the USA.
The main difference is that the EU is in much less debt than the USA.
We have a far more thorough democracy with member states wielding proper sovereign power, unlike the states in the US which are no more than puppets of Washington.

So, let's think what the EU wants from the US... er.... fuck all.

[bobevenson]

How about the Pied Piper of Greece leading all the lemmings into the sea, and Europe becoming the lost continent of Atlantis?

[chaz wyman]

How about the Pied Piper of Greece leading all the lemmings into the sea, and Europe becoming the lost continent of Atlantis?

The contents of your dreams are not my concern.

[Arising_uk]

... leading all the lemmings into the sea ...

Disney yet again! You do know that he made that shot up don't you?

[i blame blame]

Europe thinks

What or whom do you mean, when you say "Europe thinks"? Every European citizen, the majority of citizens of Europe, of the European Union? Every European government, or the majority thereof?

it can become another United States, but that's absolutely laughable since you can't bring disparate languages and cultures under a single umbrella.

Why can't you? China and India are multilingual and multicultural states.

[chaz wyman]

The USA has crushed 100s of languages, in just 200 years. They are still trying to hold back the tide of Spanish, but the death of the native languages is like a holocaust, and reflects an actual one.

For what it is worth Europe has 9 official languages and 40 indigenous ones.

Despite what bon says the US has a much higher linguistic diversity (.353) than most individual european countries such as the UK (.139).

Here's an interesting fact: 95% of Europeans are taught English at school to secondary level!
In the US less than 95% of children finish secondary school.


Did you like that one Bob?

[HughKnows]

What is really laughable is that most Americans dislike their own Federal authority and would be more happy with what we have in Europe, and funnily enough you have stated that yourself.

As it is in purchasing power and GDP, Europe outstrips the USA.
The main difference is that the EU is in much less debt than the USA.
We have a far more thorough democracy with member states wielding proper sovereign power, unlike the states in the US which are no more than puppets of Washington.

Actually, this is a complicated question.

The EU's Europe-wide lawmaking institutions are clearly a lot less democratic than the corresponding federal-level institutions in the USA. The EU does have a democratically-elected Parliament, but it is largely window-dressing, because it does not have the power to initiate legislation. Only the unelected European Commission can do that. The European Parliament does have a limited power to revise legislation that has been proposed by the Commission, but only in certain policy areas. In theory it can vote to reject legislation, but in practice this hardly ever happens.

However, I think you mean is that member states of the EU retain more power than member states of the USA. I think this is probably true, though it depends which states you are talking about. For instance, those EU states which stayed out of the euro have more decision-making power on economic issues than states inside the Eurozone. EU member states are required to regularly adopt new EU legislation into their own laws, but estimates of the percentage of member states' laws which come from the EU vary wildly depending on who you are talking to and what their political agenda is! Some states in the Eurozone seem to have very little power at all - for instance, the Greek government currently has most of its decisions dictated to it from outside, in a way that no US state would put up with, so you could well argue that Greece now has less "sovereign power" (whatever that means) than a US state.

[chaz wyman]

What is really laughable is that most Americans dislike their own Federal authority and would be more happy with what we have in Europe, and funnily enough you have stated that yourself.

As it is in purchasing power and GDP, Europe outstrips the USA.
The main difference is that the EU is in much less debt than the USA.
We have a far more thorough democracy with member states wielding proper sovereign power, unlike the states in the US which are no more than puppets of Washington.

Actually, this is a complicated question.

The EU's Europe-wide lawmaking institutions are clearly a lot less democratic than the corresponding federal-level institutions in the USA. The EU does have a democratically-elected Parliament, but it is largely window-dressing, because it does not have the power to initiate legislation. Only the unelected European Commission can do that. The European Parliament does have a limited power to revise legislation that has been proposed by the Commission, but only in certain policy areas. In theory it can vote to reject legislation, but in practice this hardly ever happens.

True, this is a complex question, but...
The point I was making is that there is far more autonomous democracy within European states, and however democratic Europe as an entity is - or is not, is not important as it is basically much less powerful than the Federal Authority of the US.
In the US one man can bring the US out in war, but the EU has no power to declare war at all. In the US the Feds have huge amount of power in national security, and foreign affairs including calling out troops against its own people - as it did in the South in the 1960s and in FLorida after the hurricane - these soldiers can shoot to kill. In the EU, there is no body charged with these tasks and any security actions requires the heads of state to agree. As yet they have never acted within Europe.

The basis of the EU is contractual rather than democratic. Governments periodically agree a program of activities and economic measures and this contract is revised from time to time. The Council of Ministers are appointed by democratically elected governments, and that is where the power lies. The Euro-parliament is a pretend office and has little to do bu scrutinise and ratify - as I understand it. It's role is more the get the populace to think more about Europe come election time.

[bobevenson]

Chaz says, "We have a far more thorough democracy with member states wielding proper sovereign power, unlike the states in the US which are no more than puppets of Washington."

At least we don't have a goddamn fairy-tale queen who bleeds us dry, you moron!

[chaz wyman]

Chaz says, "We have a far more thorough democracy with member states wielding proper sovereign power, unlike the states in the US which are no more than puppets of Washington."

At least we don't have a goddamn fairy-tale queen who bleeds us dry, you moron!

The civil list is around £2million the last time I looked. Whilst I do not agree in the continuation of the monarch, it is the democratic wish of the vast majority of the British people. They regard her as good value for money.
But she has no power, whereas your King, though temporary can send troops against his own people, as has been done on several occasions. That is a power that no single person has in the UK.
So given a choice, there is no contest.