Christianity and YouTube

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:31 pm

Evidence Jesus Christ Rose from the Dead | William Lane Craig: https://youtu.be/Od8U-Z_NVFA?si=HqPJTEe_m9T2QZPc

William Lane Craig seems to argue as I do above. Suggesting that the resurrection of Christ from the grave is by far the most crucial factor in establishing the Christian faith. After all, he points out, all the way up to the resurrection, this could, historically, well be just the story of someone who claimed to be the Messiah, who riled the authorities and who was executed. Think David Koresh?

But to have irrefutable, rock-solid historical evidence that Jesus Christ was in fact resurrected from the grave?

That would certainly impress me.

Craig starts here...

"...even the most skeptical New Testament critics admit that the earliest disciples at least believed that God raised Jesus of Nazareth from the dead...in fact they pinned everything on it. Without belief in Jesus' resurrection, Christianity could never have come into being. The crucifixion would have remained the final tragedy in the hapless life of the Prophet from Nazareth."

Now, I'm no Biblical scholar. So, what is being noted here? Did or did not the early disciples interact with Jesus after the resurrection and know that He had risen from the grave...or did they just believe that He must have in order for Christianity to derive that mysterious element "X"?

Then he goes into the role that Pagans might have played here given their own "spiritual" assessments pertaining to resurrection..

Nope, scratch that. Nothing about resurrection among the Pagans. Same thing with the Jews? Actually, the Jews did believe in the resurrection of the dead, but apparently "...the Jewish conception of resurrection differed from Jesus' resurrection in two fundamental respects. In Jewish thought the resurrection always occurred after the end of the world...it was for purposes of Judgment and then going to Heaven or Hell....Secondly, it always concerned all of the people...never an isolated individual."

Again, back to how Craig is making a point that, if true, allows us to make that important distinction between Jews and Christians. If Jesus Christ was the real deal back then then Christianity is indeed the path one must choose to the God of Moses and Abraham.

But where is Craig's evidence so far? Hard evidence that unequivocally establishes the fact of Christ's resurrection?

Because if the hard evidence is actually there, then all those here who refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior will be damned.

All the more reason to watch those YouTube videos yourself, find the evidence that convinces you the Christian God does in fact reside in Heaven, then pass that on to the rest of us so that that your own insights save still more souls.

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:28 am

"Is the Jesus Story Stupid and the Resurrection Totally Mythical?"

https://youtu.be/h58RvduPnac?si=py8Z7TmALfadN24h

This is rather typical of the videos that attempt to provide us with "proof" that Jesus Christ was resurrected.

Oh, and don't be fooled by the bit with Bill Maher at the beginning. By the end of the video, Frank Turek would no doubt have even him accepting Christ as his personal savior.

He starts out with this sort of "evidence".

"Why do I believe the resurrection occurred? First of alll resurrections are possible...why?...because the greatest miracle in the Bible has already occurred...the creation of the universe out of nothing. We have good scientific and philosophical evidence that the first book of the Bible is true...in the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. If that verse is true then every other verse is at least possible."

Then he provides us with..."the six lines of evidence that all begin with the letter E that will help you remember them..."

1] early testimony
2] eyewitness testimony
3] embarrassing details
4] excruciating testimony
5] expected testimony
6] extra Biblical testimony

"There are ten ancient non-Christian sources within 150 years of Jesus's life that mention Jesus and the Apostles very briefly and they say the same basic story the New Testament documents say...that His disciples believed that He rose from the dead and they were willing to die for their beliefs."

Why just "very briefly"?

And back again to the gap between what the Disciples believed about the resurrection and what they themselves could provide us in the way of actual substantive proof.

Okay, grapple with the "six E" Proof he notes and explain why in your own opinion it does constitute "good scientific and philosophical evidence" that God did in fact create the Heavens and the Earth and that Jesus Christ had risen from the dead.

Proof solid enough that even Bill Maher would come around?

promethean75 · Post by **promethean75** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:31 pm

"First of alll resurrections are possible...why?...because the greatest miracle in the Bible has already occurred...the creation of the universe out of nothing."

That's actually not a bad argument. If creation ex nihilo is possible, shirley a dude comin back to life is possible, no?

Okay but watch this. It could be that resurrection is possible but that particular instance of it did not happen. So the arguer can get away with that line of reasoning but he's burdened to prove that this particular Jesus was resurrected rather than somebody else being resurrected somewhere, sometime. Or, resurrection is possible but hasn't yet been observed by anyone.

Iow, that's a decent argument but it in no way proves that J was a ressurrectee.

Those bible guys do that shit all the time. One minute they're smart enough to understand Aquinas and the next their tellin little lies... fudging shit and claiming conclusions that don't follow. U gotta watch em.

attofishpi · Post by **attofishpi** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:57 pm

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:48 pm

promethean75 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:31 pm "First of alll resurrections are possible...why?...because the greatest miracle in the Bible has already occurred...the creation of the universe out of nothing."

That's actually not a bad argument. If creation ex nihilo is possible, shirley a dude comin back to life is possible, no?

It's a good argument. It's a bad argument. On the other hand, when does it stop being just an argument and, instead, actually includes substantive evidence to back the argument up?

Did the Christian God create the Heavens and Earth? Did He become His own son that He then resurrected from the dead?

Meanwhile, IC's 17 videos are bursting at the seams with "just the arguments" that He did.

Okay, I am someone who is truly interested in at least the possibility of immortality and salvation. If it's the real deal and your own God/religious path is the only ticket in town, by all means, provide me with both an argument and a ton of actual hard evidence that it is true.

I want to be a Christian again. I want to feel as comforted and consoled as I once did all those years ago. Trust me: very, very few of us are comforted and consoled believing that their own existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless, being fractured and fragmented morally, tumbling over into the abyss that is oblivion.

But with all of these folks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...claiming to be the one and the only ticket in town, why one and not the others?

With those like IC, the "cognitive dissonance" revolves around insisting that Jesus Christ is the only route to immortality and salvation on the one hand, while providing little more than the arguments made in the videos to "back" it up.

Where is the indisputable evidence -- scientific, philosophical, theological -- that the Christian God did create everything, that Jesus Christ did rise from the dead?

Or, sure, take that Kierkegaardian leap of faith to Him, make that Pascalean wager that He is the one, use the Bible as "proof" that He is the real deal. If that comforts and consoles you, then it worked!

It just doesn't work for me anymore.

attofishpi · Post by **attofishpi** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:55 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:48 pm Okay, I am someone who is truly interested in at least the possibility of immortality and salvation. If it's the real deal and your own God/religious path is the only ticket in town, by all means, provide me with both an argument and a ton of actual hard evidence that it is true.

I want to be a Christian again. I want to feel as comforted and consoled as I once did all those years ago. Trust me: very, very few of us are comforted and consoled believing that their own existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless, being to be fractured and fragmented morally, tumbling over into the abyss that is oblivion.

But with all of these folks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...claiming to be the one and the only ticket in town, why one and not the others?

You really are a confused individual. Why pick one and discount all the others - that's what an idiot does.

Belief in Christ doesn't mean holding on to all the crap that man has made Christianity to become either.

Belief in Christ is the most logical path to contemplation of God.

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:01 pm

Note to William Lane Craig:

Since you write for Philosophy Now magazine in regard to Christianity, perhaps you follow the PN forum discussions. Perhaps you have come upon this thread. If so, please respond to the points I raise above.

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:09 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:55 pm
iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:48 pm Okay, I am someone who is truly interested in at least the possibility of immortality and salvation. If it's the real deal and your own God/religious path is the only ticket in town, by all means, provide me with both an argument and a ton of actual hard evidence that it is true.

I want to be a Christian again. I want to feel as comforted and consoled as I once did all those years ago. Trust me: very, very few of us are comforted and consoled believing that their own existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless, being to be fractured and fragmented morally, tumbling over into the abyss that is oblivion.

But with all of these folks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...claiming to be the one and the only ticket in town, why one and not the others?
You really are a confused individual. Why pick one and discount all the others - that's what an idiot does.

Belief in Christ doesn't mean holding on to all the crap that man has made Christianity to become either.

Belief in Christ is the most logical path to contemplation of God.

Talk about comic relief!!

Note to Meno, Ecmandu, Ichthus77 and lorikeet:

By all means, invite him/her to post here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewforum.php?f=5

What's one more clown in the car?

attofishpi · Post by **attofishpi** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:11 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:09 pm
attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:55 pm
iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:48 pm Okay, I am someone who is truly interested in at least the possibility of immortality and salvation. If it's the real deal and your own God/religious path is the only ticket in town, by all means, provide me with both an argument and a ton of actual hard evidence that it is true.

I want to be a Christian again. I want to feel as comforted and consoled as I once did all those years ago. Trust me: very, very few of us are comforted and consoled believing that their own existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless, being to be fractured and fragmented morally, tumbling over into the abyss that is oblivion.

But with all of these folks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...claiming to be the one and the only ticket in town, why one and not the others?
You really are a confused individual. Why pick one and discount all the others - that's what an idiot does.

Belief in Christ doesn't mean holding on to all the crap that man has made Christianity to become either.

Belief in Christ is the most logical path to contemplation of God.
Talk about comic relief!!

Clearly as an atheist godbotherer you are the biggest FOOL on the forum.

You want to be a Christian again>?? bullshit, you just want to spout ridiculous crap all over the forum.

...AND, you still think HEAVE_n is some other place - you fucking SAP!!

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:20 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:11 pm Clearly as an atheist godbotherer you are the biggest FOOL on the forum.

You want to be a Christian again>?? bullshit, you just want to spout ridiculous crap all over the forum.

...AND, you still think HEAVE_n is some other place - you fucking SAP!!

Note to Meno, Ecmandu, Ichthus77 and Lorikeet:

By all means, invite him/her to post here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewforum.php?f=5

What's one more clown in the car?

attofishpi · Post by **attofishpi** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:24 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:20 pm
attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:11 pm Clearly as an atheist godbotherer you are the biggest FOOL on the forum.

You want to be a Christian again>?? bullshit, you just want to spout ridiculous crap all over the forum.

...AND, you still think HEAVE_n is some other place - you fucking SAP!!

Note to Meno, Ecmandu, Ichthus77 and Lorikeet:

By all means, invite him/her to post here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewforum.php?f=5

What's one more clown in the car?

WELL, Y DON'T U FUCK OFF THERE FOOL?

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:27 pm

Taking Issue with The God Issue
Raymond Tallis argues against theist arguments in PN 99

An atheist’s work is never done. Just when you think that God has been buried in an unmarked grave, lo and behold, there He is back again, stalking the surface of the earth, looking for infidels to annoy.

With God you have access to Commandments. With God you have access to immortality. With God you have access to salvation.

Next up: what you have access to with Raymond Tallis.

And however annoyed atheists might become with the faithful sucking on their celestial pacifiers, that never changes. Not only that but I myself am wretched enough to cling to at least a smidgen of hope that someone here might bring me back into the fold myself.

And so it was the other month, in this very journal, when two accomplished polemicists attempted to bring God back from the dead. In Philosophy Now 99: The God Issue, William Lane Craig mobilised arguments and Timothy Chappell appealed to personal experiences to persuade us to fall on our atheistic knees and admit that we were wrong. Needless to say, your columnist demurred. So I hope the Editor will permit a little civil war within Philosophy Now for the sake of truth. (I have singled out Craig and Chappell for their merits rather than their deficiencies, as it is difficult to imagine how their cases could have been set out more clearly.)

I reacted to the Craig article myself above. IC recommended that I read it as the next best thing to the Bible and those videos in demonstrating that a God, the God, his God does exist. I'll explore the points that Chappel makes down the road.

On the other hand, when it comes to God and religion, there's what can be pinned down clearly and there's what has never been. It's just that, as always, it is more incumbent upon those who claim the existence of God to demonstrate that than for the atheists to demonstrate that He doesn't exist.

Or so that clearly seems to be the case for me.

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:44 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:24 pm
iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:20 pm
attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:11 pm Clearly as an atheist godbotherer you are the biggest FOOL on the forum.

You want to be a Christian again>?? bullshit, you just want to spout ridiculous crap all over the forum.

...AND, you still think HEAVE_n is some other place - you fucking SAP!!

Note to Meno, Ecmandu, Ichthus77 and Lorikeet:

By all means, invite him/her to post here: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewforum.php?f=5

What's one more clown in the car?
WELL, Y DON'T U FUCK OFF THERE FOOL?

Because there my task is now to upend the clown car. Or at the very least to expose it as the joke it's become as a "philosophy forum".

As with Ierrellus...

Ierrellus wrote:Is this the religion forum? Theologians are dissed as making declarative sentences while thread stopping buffoonery has its moment. Are you there, Dan?

attofishpi · Post by **attofishpi** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:16 am

iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:44 pm Where's the beef that it is the Christian God and not one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

It's the same God. You are confusing man's interpretation of the divine throughout the aeons, that created the world's religions, with God.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:44 pmThen the part where the Christian God is reconciled with these godawful calamities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... _eruptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... l_cyclones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ore_deaths
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_diseases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

Good job God exists then since and from experience, it can limit the amount of pain an individual feels. Souls taken prior to great suffering.

I've been watching utube Mr Ballenm - some horrific workplace accidents a couple of accounts of poor souls being stuck in a workplace oven that gradually begins to heat and after watching I am relieved to know the power of this God.

Seems apparent God isn't willing to have heaven on Earth for everyone. Maybe heaven is earned, worked for even, heave_n.

iambiguous · Post by **iambiguous** » Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:55 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:16 am
iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:44 pm Where's the beef that it is the Christian God and not one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions
It's the same God. You are confusing man's interpretation of the divine throughout the aeons, that created the world's religions, with God.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:44 pmThen the part where the Christian God is reconciled with these godawful calamities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... _eruptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... l_cyclones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ore_deaths
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_diseases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
Good job God exists then since and from experience, it can limit the amount of pain an individual feels. Souls taken prior to great suffering.

I've been watching utube Mr Ballenm - some horrific workplace accidents a couple of accounts of poor souls being stuck in a workplace oven that gradually begins to heat and after watching I am relieved to know the power of this God.

Seems apparent God isn't willing to have heaven on Earth for everyone. Maybe heaven is earned, worked for even, heave_n.

Logically, right?

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