How important is struggle to our nature?

[artisticsolution]

That way your mother could feel important too. She is interested in psychology and so she may get a chance to tell something interesting to her daughters. You had your turn as an expert in philosophy, she can have her turn as an expert in psychology.

It makes more sense to do such things when the situtation is still fresh, of course.

She attacked you a little bit and you defended yourself and argued successfully. A psychological interpretation is always interesting. All three of you could have given one and compared them. And this time your mother would have the best arguments at her disposal, probably.

Oh, I see what you mean now. No...I don't think you understand. My sister and I have lived with a daily dose of my mom's "Psychological interpretation" since birth. We were never allowed to explore anything else, my mom was one of those type who thought anything different was the occult. We were not even allowed to play with kids who played dungeons or dragons or have any other idea that she thought was "against God."

We were her captive audience and she would lecture us on her interpretation of the "Psychology" of "evil people" that seemed to be everywhere in her eyes. If we said something in the lecture...then we would have to hear that "something is HORRIBLY wrong with you...and if you think that then you need a psychiatric overhaul" And she would say it with a kinda spooky sing song voice I can't describe...but one that sounded like she was in the presence of the devil...meaning us and our questions. She would also love to give us lectures in the mirror....meaning she would turn her back to us and look at herself in the mirror as she dramatically lectured us on the psychology of the evil.

So you see...the problem isn't that she thinks she is unimportant...the problem is that she thinks that anyone or anything that strays from psychology or God...is evil. You could not even mentioning reading something as silly as Harry Potter to her...she would go into a psychology interpretation of why it is evil. She commands the spotlight in a conversation no one else can get a word in...and if they do she always finds something "psychologically" wrong with them afterward....this is why it was so rare for her to actually hear what I said and say, "I see what you mean and why you like it."

Btw...I have never told her I liked philosophy before the other day. And look at the letter I got in response. And did you notice that she immediately silenced me by giving me the letter and then saying, "Now I don't wish to discuss this again." I have liked philosophy since I came to this forum...how many years has that been? I am no expert....but can you imagine...being around my mother all those years...and never once getting a chance to tell her about myself?

[artisticsolution]

isn't the beginning of life a struggle to get away, or more specifically out, from your mother?

-Imp

That is not where my mindset is. I am grateful to my mother for raising me...she could have left like my father did. That she raised us while being mentally ill is amazing. I don't think I could have done it myself. So there is a respect for her in that way. But the thing is...I want a relationship with my mother and there is nothing wrong with that.

Also, I will not kick her to the curb in her old age...so it isn't even an option. I am strong enough to let her have her opinion. But that doesn't mean that I sometimes don't want to pull my hair out.

[duszek]

Does your sister share this opinion of your mother being controlling, AS ?
Then you and her could start together an attempt to correct her attitude, "Mother, we think that you are too controlling and we are both adults now, so please consider the following proposals ... "

Impenitent

You are perfectly right, mothers have often difficulty letting their children - especially sons - go their own way. There are some real stories of mama´s boys who finally murder their mothers when they become aged, overweight and embittered.

I´m going to read a novel by Edward St Aubyn "Mother´s Milk" which is probably about this problem. I borrowed it only today, I discovered it by chance. But first I will read Julian Barnes´s "Arthur and George".

[artisticsolution]

Does your sister share this opinion of your mother being controlling, AS ?
Then you and her could start together an attempt to correct her attitude, "Mother, we think that you are too controlling and we are both adults now, so please consider the following proposals ... "

Yes, everyone shares this opinion of my mother. I mean everyone...even her sisters who love her. But they know that there is no use in arguing with my mother. Do you remember me telling you about how my cousin lived with us when we all were little and then my mom getting mad at my aunt and then sending her daughter back and never letting us see her again? Well my mom convinced herself then that what she was doing was protecting her daughters from "evil." This is how she deals with differences.
If we had a conversation like you suggest, she would conjure up some sort of delusion....like she does with everyone who makes suggestions that are not on her agenda....so she could be seen as the hero casting out evil.

She does it to absolutely everyone. She did it to my step father as well. All was great and then one day..she decided she had to get divorced because he was going to kill her. She had to save herself...so she separated from him.

Now I might add...that he had health problems all his life...and he was getting to the point where he had so much wrong with him that he could barely move. I just have to wonder if she didn't conjure up all this stuff about him wanting to kill her so that she would have a good excuse (in her own mind) to leave him so she would not have to take care of him. An excuse that would not make her the "bad guy."

I might add...the reason I think there is something different there than what she says...is because after she left him...she would go visit him so that the grand kids could see him...as they loved him so much.

Now I ask you....would you take your grand kids to visit a man who you think is trying to murder you?

Trust me....when speaking rationally with her, you are trying to be reasonable with an unreasonable mind. It just doesn't work. Unless you agree with her...you are the devil and can't be trusted.

[duszek]

I see.

But if someone is so despotic he has no friends and he is not close to anyone. Your mother is a lonely tyrant.
And to deal with a tyrant one has to be politically correct, and this is sad.
I am politically correct towards my enemies because they do not deserve any better.

[The Voice of Time]

my mother is a tyrant, not lonely, and I'm overweight, and I want to kill her. Buuuuut I reasoned its not worth it, and applause that artisticsolution manage his relationship with his mother so well. When i think of my mother it is usually with a bit of dribbling taste for blood coming from my mouth and maybe an alarming knowledge of where the closest knife lies or where's the highest fall.

[duszek]

Why don´t you move out and become independent ? Are you still under age ?

[The Voice of Time]

Why don´t you move out and become independent ? Are you still under age ?

have moved out, but did it drastically and became independent through a not so smooth process. So now I live pretending she just doesn't exist and never has.

[duszek]

Good.

So now you are free to develop according to your own best judgment.
And later on, when you calm down, you could perhaps start a new and more mature relationship with your mother.
Or not.

As a general rule: people who dislike each other strongly should seperate.

[The Voice of Time]

As a general rule: people who dislike each other strongly should seperate.

agreed. Separation until further notice.

[sandystevees]

It is more important in our life or nature.The one who does not know the struggle of life is either an immature soul, or a soul who has risen above the life of this world. The object of a human being in this world is to attain to the perfection of humanity, and therefore it is necessary that man should go through what we call the struggle of life.Because life means a continual battle, one’s success, failure, happiness, or unhappiness mostly depends upon one’s knowledge of this battle. Whatever be one’s occupation in life, whatever be one’s knowledge, if one lacks the knowledge of the battle of life one lacks the most important knowledge of all.

[george74]

Regarding in this subject, conflict, struggle, conquest, being part of our nature, is probably critical to our continued advancement as a species. So, isn't it reasonable to think we should seek how to embrace this part of our nature, without letting it control us, to harness this part of nature, and use it to forge a better world, rather than as a destructive force.