The Continuum Concept in Practice

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

  • Also problematic for him is that one terrible step in an argument or justification of a conclusion can lead to 0 objectivity. He doesn't get this. If there are ten steps in an argument and 9 of them are objective or objectively arrived at subconclusions, and the last step is ridiculous. The conclusion of that process is not 90% objective 10% subjective. The whole thing gets undermined. Or even if he gives it a .00001 percent objective rating, this is a confusion. I could accept a subjective step in the argument possibly not undermining the whole thing, but something that has no justification or is randomly subjective like 'because I am the legitimate owner of the universe' it doesn't matter how objective the other steps in the argument/justification are objective.

    If I bake a pie and it's 99% excellent ingredients and I even follow an excellent recipe, but it's got 1% arsenic in it, it's not a good pie unless my intent is to kill.

    It's 100% a bad pie.

    And if someone wants to argue 'but maybe the intent was to kill', well then it's 100% a good pie for those purposes. The good ingredients just make it more insidious and tasty.
The above is a strawman as I had explained many times.

Principle:
1. Whatever is objective is conditioned upon a human-based specific FSK.
2. A FSK itself must be logically valid.
3. Anything that is not logically valid do not qualify to be a valid FSK.
4. An invalid FSK cannot be a base for objectivity.

Thus if a FSK has any non-logical premises, it is non-sequitor, then it is not a valid FSK, thus cannot be used to deliberate on objectivity.
As such, if a 10-premise-argument has 9 valid premises and the last premise is invalid, then the whole argument [non-starter] cannot be used to deliberate on objectivity [in various degrees].
  • If there are ten steps in an argument and 9 of them are objective or objectively arrived at subconclusions, and the last step is ridiculous.
Because the last step is ridiculous or logically invalid within the constitution of the specific FSK, then the whole argument of the 10 premises is considered invalid, thus a non-starter to be considered for objectivity [and degrees of objectivity].

Note this is a valid human-based FSK and it is objective;
  • 1. The theological FSK is constituted upon its agreed holy text [say Gospel].
    2. The Gospels stated God exists.
    3. Therefore God exists.
The above FSK is logically valid, thus its conclusion is objective.
But the element of God therein is illusory.
In contrast to the scientific FSK objectivity [empirical] as the standard [100/100], the Christian FSK [non-empirical] is at the other extreme of objectivity, say 0.0001 degrees of objectivity.

Let say, this ridiculous argument,
  • 1. The theological FSK is constituted upon its agreed holy text [say Gospel].
    2. The Gospels stated God exists.
    3. The Gospels also stated God do not exists.
    4. Therefore God exists.
The above argument is ridiculous, contradictory, thus not logically valid.
Because it is not logical valid, we cannot even start to use it for deliberation of objectivity in any degrees. The WHOLE argument must be rejected for any deliberation of objectivity.

That to interpret the above as 67.666 objectivity and 33.333 non-objective based on the number of premises is a strawman.
Such an argument is a washout and a non-starter for any deliberation of objectivity.

Say,
1. All humans are mortal
2. All metal are not mortal
3. Socrates is a man and a metal
4. Socrates is mortal

The WHOLE argument above is logically invalid and thus is a non-starter for consideration of reality, truths and objectivity.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Skepdick
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Skepdick »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:53 am
Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:53 am Objective reality is by definition not on a continuum, it's an absolute.

We can only put human objectivity vs human subjectivity on a continuum.
Also problematic for him is that one terrible step in an argument or justification of a conclusion can lead to 0 objectivity. He doesn't get this. If there are ten steps in an argument and 9 of them are objective or objectively arrived at subconclusions, and the last step is ridiculous. The conclusion of that process is not 90% objective 10% subjective. The whole thing gets undermined. Or even if he gives it a .00001 percent objective rating, this is a confusion. I could accept a subjective step in the argument possibly not undermining the whole thing, but something that has no justification or is randomly subjective like 'because I am the legitimate owner of the universe' it doesn't matter how objective the other steps in the argument/justification are objective.

If I bake a pie and it's 99% excellent ingredients and I even follow an excellent recipe, but it's got 1% arsenic in it, it's not a good pie unless my intent is to kill.

It's 100% a bad pie.

And if someone wants to argue 'but maybe the intent was to kill', well then it's 100% a good pie for those purposes. The good ingredients just make it more insidious and tasty.
Then “objectivity” is a 100% bad pie.

Perfect is the enemy of good.
Skepdick
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Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Skepdick »

Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:53 am Objective reality is by definition not on a continuum, it's an absolute.
The fuck?

“Absolute objective reality” relativizes just fine with respect to the continuum of time.
Atla
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Atla »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:37 am Principle:
1. Whatever is objective is conditioned upon a human-based specific FSK.
Objective reality is by definition not conditioned on any human-based FSK.

Only FSK-based intersubjective objectivity is FSK-based.

Your principle is a principle of Sheer Sophistry, simple as that.
Atla
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Atla »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:40 am
Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:53 am Objective reality is by definition not on a continuum, it's an absolute.
The fuck?

“Absolute objective reality” relativizes just fine with respect to the continuum of time.
?! time is probably a dimension or direction of/within objective reality.
Iwannaplato
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Iwannaplato »

So, why don't they call it continuum mechanics instead of quantum mechanics. Continuous or discretely packeted.
It's funny, it's...up in the air.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... -discrete/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ontinuous/
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:37 am 4. An invalid FSK cannot be a base for objectivity.

Thus if a FSK has any non-logical premises, it is non-sequitor, then it is not a valid FSK, thus cannot be used to deliberate on objectivity.
As such, if a 10-premise-argument has 9 valid premises and the last premise is invalid, then the whole argument [non-starter] cannot be used to deliberate on objectivity [in various degrees].
  • If there are ten steps in an argument and 9 of them are objective or objectively arrived at subconclusions, and the last step is ridiculous.
Because the last step is ridiculous or logically invalid within the constitution of the specific FSK, then the whole argument of the 10 premises is considered invalid, thus a non-starter to be considered for objectivity [and degrees of objectivity].
We should find out what it is that makes these FSK things valid or invalid.

The morality-proper FSK thing wouldn't survive the enquiry.
Skepdick
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Skepdick »

Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 am ?! time is probably a dimension or direction of/within objective reality.
What or where are dimensions/direction? That's abstract nonsense.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Atla
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Atla »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:41 am
Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 am ?! time is probably a dimension or direction of/within objective reality.
What or where are dimensions/direction? That's abstract nonsense.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Then time is also abstract nonsense, and so is your continuum of time. Fail.
Skepdick
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Skepdick »

Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:45 am
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:41 am
Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 am ?! time is probably a dimension or direction of/within objective reality.
What or where are dimensions/direction? That's abstract nonsense.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Then time is also abstract nonsense, and so is your continuum of time. Fail.
I am not the one making an ontological argument for "absolute obejective reality".

Your failure as an ontologist is my entertainment as an epistemologist.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Atla
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Atla »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:47 am I am not the one making an ontological argument for "absolute obejective reality".

Your failure as an ontologist is my entertainment as an epistemologist.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ultimately I'm agnostic, while you and VA are making an argument for the non-existence of objective reality. So total fail.
Skepdick
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Skepdick »

Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:52 am
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:47 am I am not the one making an ontological argument for "absolute obejective reality".

Your failure as an ontologist is my entertainment as an epistemologist.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ultimately I'm agnostic, while you and VA are making an argument for the non-existence of objective reality. So total fail.
The social norms of Philosophy don't allow for agnosticism.

Law of Excluded middle. The middle (where the agnostics sit) is excluded.

Even without all that - you speak too much for an agnostic.
Atla
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Atla »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:24 pm
Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:52 am
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:47 am I am not the one making an ontological argument for "absolute obejective reality".

Your failure as an ontologist is my entertainment as an epistemologist.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ultimately I'm agnostic, while you and VA are making an argument for the non-existence of objective reality. So total fail.
The social norms of Philosophy don't allow for agnosticism.

Law of Excluded middle. The middle (where the agnostics sit) is excluded.

Even without all that - you speak too much for an agnostic.
"don't know for certain" isn't the middle between yes and no.
Last edited by Atla on Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Skepdick
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Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Skepdick »

Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:32 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:24 pm
Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:52 am
Ultimately I'm agnostic, while you and VA are making an argument for the non-existence of objective reality. So total fail.
The social norms of Philosophy don't allow for agnosticism.

Law of Excluded middle. The middle (where the agnostics sit) is excluded.

Even without all that - you speak too much for an agnostic.
"don't know for certain" isn't the middle between yes and no.
However you qualify your lack of knowledge it doesn't get you off the fence.
Atla
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: The Continuum Concept in Practice

Post by Atla »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:38 pm
Atla wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:32 pm
Skepdick wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:24 pm
The social norms of Philosophy don't allow for agnosticism.

Law of Excluded middle. The middle (where the agnostics sit) is excluded.

Even without all that - you speak too much for an agnostic.
"don't know for certain" isn't the middle between yes and no.
However you qualify your lack of knowledge it doesn't get you off the fence.
The fence is a treatment of the yes/no question from one level higher, something you can't understand because you lack abstract thinking.
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