CRT: Whiteness is Inherently Evil

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Can you think for yourself?

Yes, but this is not about me. Its about the large group of people who think that the ancestry they share with each other and with me makes us superior to those who are descended from, for example and in particular, the peoples of Africa.

It just gets funnier We are all originally from Africa. Who are all these people? I've never heard anyone say that. You sound as if you are projecting your own innate racism. Different cultures tend to not like each other. That's just humans and is certainly NOT exclusive to one group of people.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Does anyone really think that the US today is anything like it was in the 50s and 60s?

[Veritas Aequitas]

We are told that racism is “prejudice plus power,” therefore, only white people can be racist.

Picking out an issue with this stuff that's not usually discussed, social theory "power" talk is always a mess. What's supposed to be a rigorous, plausible definition of just what counts as "power," and how is it being empirically evidenced (versus falsified) under the rubric of that rigorous, plausible definition?

The problem is those many who are brainwashed with the above beliefs [fallacious] and are putting it into practice.

I believe it is essential we discuss the philosophy underlying the above evil.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Whiteness is not inherently evil. Ignorance and arrogance is a toxic combination, though, that white people are particularly prone to, and white conservatives are masters at exploiting the combination for pretty evil purposes.

Critical race theory is an honest and respectable academic methodology that has turned up important facts that white supremacists have long covered up. Like the practice of redlining, and what the Confederacy actually stood for, and what Martin Luther King Jr. really believed, and events like the Tulsa race massacre.

That is why, for instance, the White Right are so afraid of the New York Times' 1619 Project . It's not because it's inaccurate.

It's because it's true.

That is not my point, it is a point from the Critical Race Theorists.
That "Whiteness is not inherently evil" is a belief adopted by those who promoting elements of the 'Critical Race Theory' and are taking actions and invoking evil consequences therefrom.

I believe the people who started Critical Race Theory, i.e. Derrick Bell, Kimberle Crenshaw, et. al. had good intentions.
Their objectives were not specifically about White Supremacy [disappeared when Apartheid was destroyed] but rather they noted the civil rights movement did not produce enough results to their expectation because they suspect there are still remnants of white racism hidden within various organizations, etc.

Whilst the pioneers of CRT had good intentions, their approaches and applications of 'criticality' was flawed due to the point that it is not holistic.
A philosophical Critique of Critical Race Theory will uncover the inherent flaws in CRT.

The real problem is when some overzealous black and 'white' activists extended the Critical Race Theory with radical ideas, like bringing back the idea of white supremacy per se, whiteness is evil and all the other extreme radical elements related to Critical Race Theory and putting these radical ideas into practice as an ideology.

Many from the Left who are ignorant of what CRT really represent adopted it blindly and some who are perverted will adopt it naturally.

I would suggest you educate yourself with what CRT is really about, review it more critically and philosophically so as to understand its underlying psychology and ideology, else you will be complicit to the evil consequences that arise therefrom.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Can you think for yourself?

Yes, but this is not about me. Its about the large group of people who think that the ancestry they share with each other and with me makes us superior to those who are descended from, for example and in particular, the peoples of Africa.

You are not thinking rationally, critically and philosophically in a wider and deeper mode.

As I had stated ALL humans are programmed with a necessary tribalistic instincts [us vs them] where it had a net positive [more pros over cons] in the beginning of human evolution.
One of the cons to the tribalistic instinct is racialism which brought about the consequences of genocides, mass killing, mass oppression, sense of supremacy and all sort of evils.

Since tribalism is generic to ALL humans, its evil consequences has effected not only in the case of white over black but black over blacks [note the Rwanda racial genocides] as well and also shades of colors.
in any case, to refer skin color on this serious issue is fallacious.

What is significant in all these supposedly skin color issues is tribalism [us vs them] where evil and violence can be triggered by many sort of differences in groups [so not just skin color].
So for the problem of racialism, we need to address the superficial issues, but we should dig into its roots i.e. tribalism which is generic to ALL humans.

Because ALL humans are programmed to evolve and progress, it is evident the impulse of tribalism and its consequences has waned since the beginning to the present and so has racialism. [this is very evident which you cannot deny].

However, as with human nature, humans progress is slow, thus problems of racialism cannot be resolved overnight. Thus we will still have a % of people who are racists and a small % in the extreme. [note normal distribution]. But nevertheless there is an increasing trend of progress in resolving racialism within humanity.

However those involved and support CRT and who are very zealous and tend to be impatient in not understanding that it takes time for human nature to change for the better.
Thus what we have at present [in the USA] are the radical CRT idealogues forcing a false theory via various deceptive ways and manipulating the power structures.

What these radical don't understand is those who disagree with their views and approaches are not stupid stooges and thus they will fight back in various ways. Such actions by both parties are not a win-win for humanity.

If you condone the acts of the radical CRT followers you are complicit to the evil consequences that arise from the acts of the CRTists.

Note the Asian-Americans are also a 'colored' minority and they also suffered from racists actions by the majority, why are they not invoking radical extremes CRT like the blacks and left are doing? Rather they worked their way around those racist pressures and are one of the most successful group in the US.
Therefore there should be research done to understand the difference between the blacks, latino and Asian-Americans in their responses to being a minority and yet can be successful.
I have answers to the why above but it is off topic to discuss here.

[RCSaunders]

Can you think for yourself?

Yes, but this is not about me. Its about the large group of people who think that the ancestry they share with each other and with me makes us superior to those who are descended from, for example and in particular, the peoples of Africa.

Yes, but this is not about me.

But if it's not about you, what do you care what others think. Worrying about race, even if it's only, "others'," is racism.

You and I don't have to think that way, do we?

[RCSaunders]

Does anyone really think that the US today is anything like it was in the 50s and 60s?

No, it was a completely different country.

From mid-40s to mid-60s was the most free society ever in history in the US, but it all went away after that. Of course, even that time was spoiled between 1950-53 with the Korean war. Americans love war.

[uwot]

From mid-40s to mid-60s was the most free society ever in history in the US...

So the period that coincides with McCarthyism and segregation is as free as Americans have ever been eh?

...but it all went away after that.

Those damned Hippies!

[mickthinks]

... what do you care what others think.

When other people have the vote and cast it for people like Adolf Hitler and Donald Trump, I care what they think and I reckon it's time you did too.

Worrying about race, even if it's only, "others'," is racism.
Nice wordplay, but tackling racism isn't racist, RC, and I am not worried; I'm opposed.

[Immanuel Can]

tackling racism isn't racist, RC

What about witch-hunting for racism where there's none, while also ignoring the massive examples of racism that are presently going on around the world in places like China, the former Soviet republics, the Middle East and Africa?

Is that "tackling"?

What about finding "racism" in every "white," but denying it's "racism" when a person of colour beats an Asian grandfather in the street, or two Korean shopkeepers? What about when Asians are denied admission to universities because they aren't the approved minority, and nobody protests?

Is that "tackling"?

[Sculptor]

From: viewtopic.php?p=515518#p515518

For CRTists, in their interpretation, being racist is being evil, i.e. not morally good.


Your views?

My view?

My view is that this entire thread is based on a strawman and consequently not worthy of further contributions.

If there is anything that characterises CRT is the notion that no race can be "inherently" anyting, since they consider race to be socially and culturally defined and NOT natural being characterisable as having "inherent" qualities.

[henry quirk]

From mid-40s to mid-60s was the most free society ever in history in the US

1781-1789: good times

[uwot]

What about witch-hunting for racism where there's none...

Seriously Mr Can, you've never heard of the Ku Klux Klan, the American Nazi Party, the Proud Boys? Here's a few more American groups:

11th Hour Remnant Messenger was a group which was founded by two wealthy retired entrepreneurs who believed that whites were the true biblical Israelites.
American Renaissance, is a "race realist and white advocacy website", formerly a monthly magazine, published by the New Century Foundation.
American Freedom Party, formerly known as the American Third Position Party, is an American political party which promotes white supremacy. It was founded in 2010, and it defines its principal mission as representing the political interests of white Americans.
American Nazi Party is an antisemitic, neo-Nazi organization based largely upon the ideals and policies of Adolf Hitler's NSDAP in Germany during the era of the Third Reich. It also supports Holocaust denial.
Aryan Brotherhood of Texas is, according to the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the largest and most violent white supremacist prison gangs in the United States, responsible for murders and other violent crimes.
Aryan Republican Army was a white nationalist terrorist organization.
Aryan Nations, is a white supremacist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has called Aryan Nations a "terrorist threat", and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the US.
Asatru Folk Assembly, part of the racist ("folkish") branch of the Heathenry movement.
Atomwaffen Division, a Neo-Nazi terrorist organisation.
Council of Conservative Citizens, is an American political organization that supports a large variety of conservative and paleoconservative causes in addition to white separatism.
Creativity Alliance, (formerly known as the World Church of the Creator) is a white supremacist political organization that advocates the racialist religion, Creativity. Mainly religious rather than political, the radical Creativity Alliance or Church of Creativity, founded by Ben Klassen in 1973, worships the white race itself rather than any deity, and advocates a radical form of white supremacism known as RAHOWA.
EURO, is a white separatist organization in the United States. Led by former Louisiana state representative, presidential primary candidate and Grand Wizard of the KKK David Duke, it was founded in 2000.
Hammerskins, also known as Hammerskin Nation, are a white supremacist group formed in 1988 in Dallas, Texas. Their primary focus is the production and promotion of white power rock music, and many white power bands have been affiliated with the group.
Identity Evropa is an American neo-Nazi and white supremacist organization established in March 2016.
Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as The Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy and nationalism. The Klan is classified as a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center. It is estimated to have between 5,000 and 8,000 members, split among dozens of different organizations that use the Klan name as of 2012.
National Alliance, was a white supremacist political organization. It was founded by William Luther Pierce, and was based in Hillsboro, West Virginia.
National Association for the Advancement of White People, was a white supremacist organization in the United States incorporated on December 14, 1953 in Delaware by Bryant Bowles which presents itself as a civil rights organization such as the NAACP.
National Policy Institute, is a think tank based in Augusta, Georgia in the United States. It describes itself as the right's answer to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
National Socialist Movement (United States), a party founded in 1974. Since 2005 the party has become very active, staging many marches and demonstrations.
National Vanguard, was an American National Socialist organization based in Charlottesville, Virginia, founded by Kevin Alfred Strom and former members of the National Alliance.
Nationalist Movement, is a Mississippi-based, white supremacist organization that advocates what it calls a "pro-majority" position. It has been called white supremacist by the Associated Press and Anti-Defamation League, among others.
Occidental Quarterly, is a printed far-right quarterly journal with a web segment, TOQ Online, including interviews, essays and reviews on the website.
The Order, or Brüder Schweigen ("Silent Brotherhood") was a white supremacist Revolutionary organization founded by Robert Jay Mathews, active 1983–1984, probably best known for the 1984 murder of talk show host Alan Berg. Berg's killing was to be the first in a planned series of assassinations, followed by attacks on the United States government, all meant to bring about a race war which would result in fulfillment of White Separatist ideals (see Northwest Territorial Imperative).
Pacifica Forum, is a controversial discussion group in Eugene, Oregon, United States. It has been listed as a white nationalist hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).
Patriot Front is a neo-fascist american nationalist group and an offshoot of Vanguard America
Phineas Priesthood, is a Christian Identity movement that opposes interracial intercourse, the mixing of races, homosexuality, and abortion. It is also marked by its anti-Semitism, anti-multiculturalism, and opposition to taxation.
Pioneer Fund, a white supremacist non-profit that funds scientific racism research.
The Social Contract Press, a publisher of white nationalist literature founded by John Tanton.
Volksfront, describes itself as an international fraternal organization for persons of European descent. It has been called "neo-Nazi" and a "racist-skinhead group" in press reports. The Anti-Defamation League has called the group "one of the most active skinhead groups in the United States." The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has added Volksfront to its list of hate groups.
White America, Inc., a group founded in Arkansas to prevent racial desegregation of the state's schools.
White Aryan Resistance, is a neo-Nazi white supremacist organization founded and led by former Ku Klux Klan leader Tom Metzler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... ted_States

[mickthinks]

tackling racism isn't racist, RC

What about witch-hunting for racism where there's none ...

A witch-hunt is always a bad thing, but very few of the things described as witch-hunts are witch-hunts.

You appear not to have addressed the point of mine you quoted about how tackling racism isn't racist. Did you decide it wasn't important after all? (It seemed to be important to RC.)

[RCSaunders]

From mid-40s to mid-60s was the most free society ever in history in the US...

So the period that coincides with McCarthyism and segregation is as free as Americans have ever been eh?

...but it all went away after that.

Those damned Hippies!

I grew up in the 40' and 50s in what was then the largest leather manufacturing city in the world. Our home was at the intersection to two streets and every family in every house on those two streets were of different ethnic backgrounds, Irish, English, Chinese, French, Greek, Italian, Finish, Black, Japanese, Portugeuse, Turkish, etc. Most of the men worked in the leather factories or in the many businesses that such cosmopolitan city supported from banks to bakeries.

In the almost twenty years I lived there people didn't even lock their cars or houses at night. As a boy growing up in that city, I never saw racism. There was some religious prejudice (which I was not aware of as a boy), but nothing ethnic. Even as a child I could go anywhere in that city safely and there were almost no restrictions on what I could do or where I could go.

My grandfather owned a successful business (all were successful because people believed in earning their own way) and Saturday nights he walked the mile home with the weeks recepts in a paper bag. There were no policemen around at night (and hardly any during the day), there was simply no danger of being robbed. In the almost twenty years I lived there, there was never a murder, a violent crime (there were fights) and any woman could safely walk any street at any time of the day or night.

It is not possible to know what the life of individual Americans in those days were like without actually experiencing them. You apparently know only what your teachers have taught you, believing, just as most people do today, whatever the, "media," and, "politicians," emphasize actually matters, like McCarthyism and segregation, both political issues very few Americans of any ethnicity were the least bit interested in or involved with.

No political system can make any society free. The freedom enjoyed in the 40's through the early 60's was because the government was not as big and powerful, especially at lower (state and municipal) levels, as it has become since the Viet Nam war. With few exceptions, one could live their life without government interference and without having to get government approval for what they bought or owned, what to do with their money, what to eat, what drugs to buy or not buy, how to use their own property, who they would spend their time with. Now the government interferes in all these things, and almost every other aspect of an individual's life.