seeds wrote:
Humans would love to know the ultimate truth of reality, but they never seem to consider the possible consequences of such knowledge.
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
Indeed! This is just another instance of being careful what you wish for.
seeds wrote:
It should come as no surprise that you and I have a diametrically opposed interpretation of what my quoted statement represents.
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
In that case, you should have phrased it a little differently because that’s what it seems to imply.
I apologize to you, Dubious, I didn’t mean to give the impression that your suggestion of this being another instance of “...being careful what you wish for...” was an inappropriate response to my statement, for indeed it was perfectly reasonable.
What I was attempting to highlight is that you and I seem to have polar-opposite views when it comes to the reason for our existence.
For example, you apparently believe that we (as individuals) have no ultimate and eternal purpose, which, of course, is in stark contrast with my belief that our eternal purpose is so wonderful that it must be kept hidden from us.
In which case, I simply meant to point out that full and irrefutable knowledge (confirmation) of either one of those scenarios being true would no doubt elicit uniquely different consequences – consequences that could affect humanity in extremely negative ways.
The point is that your warning of “...being careful what you wish for...” was indeed spot on, but for a completely different reason than mine.
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
It would be wise to recall what happened the first time we got kicked out from the The Garden of Eden, metaphorically speaking. The noumenon may itself be nothing more than a container for all that exists.
seeds wrote:
Nah, infinity is the container for all that exists.
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
Who knows and is it even possible to know!
What I am about to suggest is obviously speculation, however, the unbounded “ARENA” of what seems to be an infinite void into which our universe is continuously expanding – as is metaphorically depicted in the blackened area surrounding the bubble of our reality in the image below...
...not only extends omnidirectionally away from the reality of our universe, but it also extends omnidirectionally away from any other context of reality imaginable (including those of a transcendent nature).
Therefore, there is absolutely nothing (including nothingness itself) that is not contained within the endless and boundless reaches of infinity.
A true visualization of infinity (i.e., the unbounded extent of the infinite void) can reduce the perceived size of the universe down to that of a single grain of sand.
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
It could be what "Ultimate Reality" as the default of all other realities amounts to; in essence, quite contrary to any divine revelation we assume would be its consequence in knowing.
seeds wrote:
Or, it could be that “Ultimate Reality” is so amazing that any direct and irrefutable knowledge of it would cause humans to long for it and seek it out prematurely.
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
This is more of a religious view than a philosophical one where some supposed knowledge of Ultimate Reality offers humans the perpetually craved anodyne of salvation.
Come on now, Dubious, there’s nothing “religious” in my assertions. I’m not positing any doctrines or dogmas that must be obeyed for the sake of one’s salvation.
I’m simply offering a theoretically plausible description of reality from an idealistic perspective (as in all of reality is “mind-based” and “alive”).
How can that not be a subject of philosophy when according to the first dictionary definition that pops-up when Googled:
Philosophy is “...the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence...”?
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
The way things are going we will be defeated by reality long before we reach any “irrefutable knowledge” of Ultimate Reality…if there is such a thing.
And therein lies a clear example of the aforementioned diametrical contrast of our opposing views.
Wherein I see that the “irrefutable knowledge of Ultimate Reality” would reveal something amazing and wonderful concerning our ultimate destiny,...
...you, on the other hand, seem to see it as something that would reveal our ultimate and eternal oblivion.
seeds wrote:
I understand what you’re getting at, but I highly doubt that “NOTHING” is what Kant had in mind when referring to the “noumenal” aspect of a “phenomenon” or that of the “thing-in-itself.”
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
The noumenon can also be referred to as the object, itself inaccessible to experience, to which a phenomenon is referred for the basis or cause of its sense content. It doesn’t have to collude precisely with Kant’s definition.
Okay, but my complaint was with your assertion that the “noumenon” is a representation of “NOTHING.”
I have no problem with taking a certain degree of poetic license with a word, but somehow, this just seemed a bit off the mark.
seeds wrote:
Philosophy doesn’t demand anything other than an open mind as one pursues truth and wisdom.
Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 pm
I agree, though I would add that truth & wisdom depends on more than just philosophy!
Agreed. Although I’m not real certain of what you’re getting at.
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