Only when very specific definitions are used, which, again, do not have to necessarily align with the actual Reality, Itself, at all.
This is just because there is no actual physical multiverse.
But there is no possibility, at all I will again add.
Did a so-called 'arithmetical multiverse' exist prior to human beings existing?
If this is what you believe is true, then so be it.
Okay, if you say so, but you seem to be contradicting "yourself" here, completely.
That is not merely a personal belief. It is the standard position in the epistemology of science.
Once again, here 'we' have another who uses the, 'it is the standard position', as though this somehow makes what is claimed actually irrefutably True.
Okay.
But why did you even begin to believe that 'I' am an "atheist"?
What do you even believe I believe in, exactly?
When have I ever attacked any so-claimed 'provable work of the so-claimed 'greatest' mathematician of all time?
Okay, but to be of that level is not something at all I would ever want to be.
But, I am not arguing against any such things. And, if you even thought or believed I was just shows you how little you have followed here, or how ignorant you have been here.
you do not comprehend and understand that there is only this One Universe, and not 'multiverses', but I do not keep reminding the readers of this as though this makes 'me' somehow better than 'you'.
Are you aware that you have not really said anything at all here?
Okay, if you say so. But some are seeing you doing this exact same very thing "yourself" here "godelian".
But no one has to be of the so-called 'caliber' of "godel" to know that what you are trying to claim here is just the stuff of pure insanity.
Godel's work is mathematical.
Concerning "godel's" work will prove that God exists,":https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-sta ... arithmetic
Non-standard model of arithmetic
In mathematical logic, a non-standard model of arithmetic is a model of first-order Peano arithmetic that contains non-standard numbers.
Existence
There are several methods that can be used to prove the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic.
- From the compactness theorem
- From the incompleteness theorems
Gödel's incompleteness theorems also imply the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic.
-From an ultraproduct
So, yes, I claim that Godel's work inevitably leads to the existence of an arithmetical multiverse and that Godel has indeed produced an ontological proof. What exactly would I have invented there? It obviously does not matter what evidence I stuff into your face, because you will still deny it.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6 ... ical_proof
Gödel's ontological proof
Gödel's ontological proof is a formal argument by the mathematician Kurt Gödel (1906–1978) for the existence of God.
“The thing about smart people is that they seem like crazy people to dumb people.”
So why talk about 'godel's work' as though it had some relation here?
But, and very, very obviously, it is not a sound and valid argument.godelian wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 4:51 am Concerning the arithmetical multiverse, yes, Godel's work makes it inevitable, unavoidable, and incontrovertible:
Concerning "godel's" work will prove that God exists,":https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-sta ... arithmetic
Non-standard model of arithmetic
In mathematical logic, a non-standard model of arithmetic is a model of first-order Peano arithmetic that contains non-standard numbers.
Existence
There are several methods that can be used to prove the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic.
- From the compactness theorem
- From the incompleteness theorems
Gödel's incompleteness theorems also imply the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic.
-From an ultraproduct
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6 ... ical_proof
Gödel's ontological proof
Gödel's ontological proof is a formal argument by the mathematician Kurt Gödel (1906–1978) for the existence of God.
So, is this all you want to claim here regarding 'multiverse'?
Obviously this is just an opinion of yours, which you believe and hold to be absolutely true.
If only you knew "godelian". If only you knew.
See how these human beings would 'see' things, which never even existed, solely because of the belief that they 'currently' had and were holding onto?
Really?
Is that why "stephen hawking" appeared to be a "smart person" to so many of you people, in the days when this was being written?
Really?
Did I call you insane?
If you think that all it takes to make you dumb and the other intelligent, then so be it. But are you sure that that is actually correct?
LOL you say some of the funniest things "godelian".
If Gödel's incompleteness applies to the physical universe, then first of all, it explains why it is partially predictable and partially unpredictable. The late Stephen Hawking believed that Gödel's incompleteness applies to the physical universe:
Now, why exactly does Gödel's incompleteness apply to a system? Because this system is part of a multiverse in which nonstandard universes subtly influence the standard one:https://www.hawking.org.uk/in-words/lec ... of-physics
What is the relation between Godel’s theorem and whether we can formulate the theory of the universe in terms of a finite number of principles? One connection is obvious. According to the positivist philosophy of science, a physical theory is a mathematical model. So if there are mathematical results that can not be proved, there are physical problems that can not be predicted.
In the standard positivist approach to the philosophy of science, physical theories live rent free in a Platonic heaven of ideal mathematical models. That is, a model can be arbitrarily detailed and can contain an arbitrary amount of information without affecting the universes they describe. But we are not angels, who view the universe from the outside. Instead, we and our models are both part of the universe we are describing. Thus a physical theory is self referencing, like in Godel’s theorem. One might therefore expect it to be either inconsistent or incomplete. The theories we have so far are both inconsistent and incomplete.
Hence, since the late Hawking believed that Gödel's incompleteness theorem applies to the physical universe, he implicitly also believed that it was part of a multiverse containing numerous nonstandard physical universes that subtly influence the standard physical universe.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-stand ... arithmetic
There are several methods that can be used to prove the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic.
From the incompleteness theorems
Gödel's incompleteness theorems also imply the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic. The incompleteness theorems show that a particular sentence G, the Gödel sentence of Peano arithmetic, is neither provable nor disprovable in Peano arithmetic. By the completeness theorem, this means that G is false in some model of Peano arithmetic. However, G is true in the standard model of arithmetic, and therefore any model in which G is false must be a non-standard model.
Stephen Hawking was a smart person. His work on black hole radiation is very solid.
https://as.cornell.edu/news/hawkings-bl ... -confirmed
== Hawking’s black hole theorem observationally confirmed ==
Fifty years later, physicists at Cornell, MIT and elsewhere have confirmed Hawking's area theorem for the first time, using observations of gravitational waves. Their results appeared in Physical Review Letters on July 1.
In the study, the researchers take a closer look at GW150914, the first gravitational wave signal detected by the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory (LIGO), in 2015, which was confirmed using a theoretical model developed at Cornell. The signal was a product of two inspiraling black holes that merged to produce a new black hole, along with a huge amount of energy that rippled across space-time as gravitational waves.
“The idea that you could actually test Hawking’s Area Theorem seems crazy,” said Saul Teukolsky, the Hans Bethe Professor of Physics in the College of Arts and Sciences and a co-author of the paper. “You have to go out somewhere and find some black holes, measure their areas and add them up, then come back later when they’ve merged and measure the area of the final black hole. Luckily, this is something we can do by analyzing the gravitational waves the system emits.”
What you do not seem to be comprehending and understanding here "godelian" is that, by definition, the One and only Universe can never ever be within a multiverse.godelian wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:09 pmIf Gödel's incompleteness applies to the physical universe, then first of all, it explains why it is partially predictable and partially unpredictable. The late Stephen Hawking believed that Gödel's incompleteness applies to the physical universe:
Now, why exactly does Gödel's incompleteness apply to a system? Because this system is part of a multiverse in which nonstandard universes subtly influence the standard one:https://www.hawking.org.uk/in-words/lec ... of-physics
What is the relation between Godel’s theorem and whether we can formulate the theory of the universe in terms of a finite number of principles? One connection is obvious. According to the positivist philosophy of science, a physical theory is a mathematical model. So if there are mathematical results that can not be proved, there are physical problems that can not be predicted.
In the standard positivist approach to the philosophy of science, physical theories live rent free in a Platonic heaven of ideal mathematical models. That is, a model can be arbitrarily detailed and can contain an arbitrary amount of information without affecting the universes they describe. But we are not angels, who view the universe from the outside. Instead, we and our models are both part of the universe we are describing. Thus a physical theory is self referencing, like in Godel’s theorem. One might therefore expect it to be either inconsistent or incomplete. The theories we have so far are both inconsistent and incomplete.
Hence, since the late Hawking believed that Gödel's incompleteness theorem applies to the physical universe, he implicitly also believed that it was part of a multiverse containing numerous nonstandard physical universes that subtly influence the standard physical universe.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-stand ... arithmetic
There are several methods that can be used to prove the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic.
From the incompleteness theorems
Gödel's incompleteness theorems also imply the existence of non-standard models of arithmetic. The incompleteness theorems show that a particular sentence G, the Gödel sentence of Peano arithmetic, is neither provable nor disprovable in Peano arithmetic. By the completeness theorem, this means that G is false in some model of Peano arithmetic. However, G is true in the standard model of arithmetic, and therefore any model in which G is false must be a non-standard model.
Therefore, Gödel's incompleteness theorem is key to the structure of the physical universe. If it applies, a whole slew of other consequences kick in.
The problem is that I can explain all of this, over and over again, but it does not seem to sink into your dumb skull. Gödel's work is clearly key to the notion of multiverse. I keep repeating to you why exactly but then you ask again some stupid question, from which it becomes patently clear that you did not understand a word from the explanation. But then again, your spectacular inability to learn will not stop you from knowing everything better!
Some human beings who build houses are also so-called 'smart people'. Their work is very solid, as well.
So what?godelian wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:16 pmhttps://as.cornell.edu/news/hawkings-bl ... -confirmed
== Hawking’s black hole theorem observationally confirmed ==
Fifty years later, physicists at Cornell, MIT and elsewhere have confirmed Hawking's area theorem for the first time, using observations of gravitational waves. Their results appeared in Physical Review Letters on July 1.
In the study, the researchers take a closer look at GW150914, the first gravitational wave signal detected by the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory (LIGO), in 2015, which was confirmed using a theoretical model developed at Cornell. The signal was a product of two inspiraling black holes that merged to produce a new black hole, along with a huge amount of energy that rippled across space-time as gravitational waves.
“The idea that you could actually test Hawking’s Area Theorem seems crazy,” said Saul Teukolsky, the Hans Bethe Professor of Physics in the College of Arts and Sciences and a co-author of the paper. “You have to go out somewhere and find some black holes, measure their areas and add them up, then come back later when they’ve merged and measure the area of the final black hole. Luckily, this is something we can do by analyzing the gravitational waves the system emits.”
You do not even try to refute my arguments. Instead, you merely keep repeating your own views. That is not a debate, is it?
I do not have to. your so-called 'arguments' refute themselves, in regards to the theory that there exists a 'multiverse' made up of universes.
1. I do not do 'debate'.
The multiverse hypothesis is not particularly new. In fact, there are also quite a few theories in physics that also subscribe to the idea:
The difference with the above is that I use arguments from mathematics and not from physics.https://www.britannica.com/science/multiverse
multiverse, a hypothetical collection of potentially diverse observable universes, each of which would comprise everything that is experimentally accessible by a connected community of observers. The observable known universe, which is accessible to telescopes, is about 90 billion light-years across. However, this universe would constitute just a small or even infinitesimal subset of the multiverse. The multiverse idea has arisen in many versions, primarily in cosmology, quantum mechanics, and philosophy, and often asserts the actual physical existence of different potential configurations or histories of the known observable universe.
One useful way to classify multiverse models is by the degree to which the universes proposed by the model are connected—that is, by the degree to which they are part of a single system described by a well-defined physical and mathematical framework, generally with a common origin and possibly even interacting with one another.
The most well-developed model of a multiverse of proliferating space-times is based on the idea of cosmological inflation. Inflation is a hypothetical process of the early universe in which space-time would have expanded exponentially at a much faster rate than at present.
Because the concept of inflation has both good theoretical justification and observational support and because the process of generating new universes through inflation is based on reasonably well-understood physics, this model of the multiverse has gained far more prominence than previous ideas. The inflationary multiverse is also fairly connected, in that all the universes would inhabit the same space-time and interactions between neighbouring universes might, in principle, produce observable effects.