Heaven and hell are not just "illusory"

[godelian]

Okay. Would you like to draw the exact line, 'for us', where 'you' would like 'us' to construct and build the 'iron curtain', 'for you'.

In the meanwhile, Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation have emerged as the leader of the free world.

Who cares if this actually could even occur?

Vladimir Putin is doing a great job in Ukraine. He has decisively defeated NATO in this proxy war.

In my opinion, Putin has come close to the point in which he can now summon Zelensky to the negotiation table and compel him to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender.

So, everything is going absolutely fine.

We are now just waiting for China to finally make a move and to put down the rebellion in their province of Taiwan. We all understand that China should not keep tolerating undue foreign influence or control over what is essentially Chinese territory.

[Age]

In the meanwhile, Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation have emerged as the leader of the free world.

Who cares if this actually could even occur?

Vladimir Putin is doing a great job in Ukraine. He has decisively defeated NATO in this proxy war.

Okay.

In my opinion, Putin has come close to the point in which he can now summon Zelensky to the negotiation table and compel him to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender.

Okay.

But in your opinion also you believe you can do whatever you like to the people living with you, and that there should not be any outside interference at all, as well.

So, everything is going absolutely fine.

Okay.

But you are also obviously trying to deviate away here from what I actually pointed out and showed in my previous posts above here about you.

We are now just waiting for China to finally make a move and to put down the rebellion in their province of Taiwan. We all understand that China should not keep tolerating undue foreign influence or control over what is essentially Chinese territory.

We all also understand that you should not be telling people in the so-called "west" how things should be, when you choose to live in another part on earth. But, this obviously does not stop you.

[godelian]

We all also understand that you should not be telling people in the so-called "west" how things should be, when you choose to live in another part on earth. But, this obviously does not stop you.

I am not "telling people in the so-called "west" how things should be". I don't care about that. I no longer live in the West.

I am only interested in preventing the West from imposing its views on the countries of the BRICS+ economic alliance which in my opinion should as soon as possible become an integrated military alliance.

I also think that Iran needs to work harder on removing the NATO naval presence in the Mediterranean and the Red Sea.

One important step in achieving this strategic initiative consists in Iran carrying out with Russian assistance, a surprise attack on the British naval base in Gibraltar, to insist that the Spanish crown deports any surviving military personnel, and to facilitate restoring Spanish royal sovereignty over the rock.

Read my lips: Gibraltar is Spanish land.

We must no longer tolerate any shenanigans in that respect.

Besides that, I was merely expressing my admiration for our great leader, Vladimir Putin, the uncontested leader of the free world.

[Veritas Aequitas]

What you are proposing is driven by evil impulses which are grounded in immutable religious doctrines.

There is no problem in the world that the government won't make worse.

After 250 000 C14 years of staying out of private family matters, the ruling mafia in the West decided that they would henceforth make problems worse in private family affairs by inventing their divorce-rape system.

There is only one way to make them uninvent it. This can only be achieved by instituting a blood tax, which must be paid with dead bodies. The only problem that is left now, is to appoint an efficient tax collector.

Your above 'paying with dead bodies' is that of a VERY evil ideology which presumably is grounded and emanate from your main holy text. Your ideas are indeed very scary and malignant to humanity.

As I had stated all evils [as defined, incl, of the ruling mafia] of whatever degrees from whatever sources, humanity must strive to eliminate, if not prevent those evil from happening from the root causes and not fire fighting it.

To do so, we humanity need to institute morality-proper that is inherent in ALL humans; at present it is in general being active at a low degree of its potential.
Humanity has the potential to rewire the human brain to expedite a more effective state of morality-proper.

[Age]

We all also understand that you should not be telling people in the so-called "west" how things should be, when you choose to live in another part on earth. But, this obviously does not stop you.

I am not "telling people in the so-called "west" how things should be". I don't care about that. I no longer live in the West.

Are you sure you are not telling people how things should be when you say and write things like;
'We should turn BRICS+ into a fully-fledged military alliance.'?

I am only interested in preventing the West from imposing its views on the countries of the BRICS+ economic alliance which in my opinion should as soon as possible become an integrated military alliance.

So, when you are, only, interested in preventing people from the so-called "west" doing things are you sure you are not telling them what they should be doing, or should not being doing, and/nor how things should be?

I also think that Iran needs to work harder on removing the NATO naval presence in the Mediterranean and the Red Sea.

There are probably a million other things you think, but who cares?

you also think about particular things when you masturbate, if you do masturbate, would you like to tell 'us' about what you think there as well?

One important step in achieving this strategic initiative consists in Iran carrying out with Russian assistance, a surprise attack on the British naval base in Gibraltar, to insist that the Spanish crown deports any surviving military personnel, and to facilitate restoring Spanish royal sovereignty over the rock.

Read my lips: Gibraltar is Spanish land.

We must no longer tolerate any shenanigans in that respect.

Besides that, I was merely expressing my admiration for our great leader, Vladimir Putin, the uncontested leader of the free world.

Okay.

But, how does this relate to trying to prove that 'God exists', through mathematics, and/or how heaven and hell are not just illusory?

[Age]

What you are proposing is driven by evil impulses which are grounded in immutable religious doctrines.

There is no problem in the world that the government won't make worse.

After 250 000 C14 years of staying out of private family matters, the ruling mafia in the West decided that they would henceforth make problems worse in private family affairs by inventing their divorce-rape system.

There is only one way to make them uninvent it. This can only be achieved by instituting a blood tax, which must be paid with dead bodies. The only problem that is left now, is to appoint an efficient tax collector.

Your above 'paying with dead bodies' is that of a VERY evil ideology which presumably is grounded and emanate from your main holy text. Your ideas are indeed very scary and malignant to humanity.

As I had stated all evils [as defined, incl, of the ruling mafia] of whatever degrees from whatever sources, humanity must strive to eliminate, if not prevent those evil from happening from the root causes and not fire fighting it.

To do so, we humanity need to institute morality-proper that is inherent in ALL humans; at present it is in general being active at a low degree of its potential.
Humanity has the potential to rewire the human brain to expedite a more effective state of morality-proper.

But you have never informed anyone of what the, supposed and claimed, 'morality-proper' is, exactly, which is, supposedly, inherent in ALL humans.

Why do 'you' not just inform 'us' of what is, supposedly, inherent in ALL humans, and which you have named 'morality-proper'?

Are 'you', "yourself", not even 'in tune' with 'it' and thus this is why you cannot even inform 'us' of what 'it' is, exactly?

Or, is there some other reason 'you' have not yet informed 'us' here?

[godelian]

But, how does this relate to trying to prove that 'God exists', through mathematics, and/or how heaven and hell are not just illusory?

This post is not about proving that God exists. It is not about Gödel's ontological proof.

It is about the possible structural similarity between the arithmetical multiverse and its physical counterpart. In the end, it is the old Pythagorean idea of structural similarity between the world of numbers and the physical world.

So, on the one side we have the arithmetical multiverse. Victoria Gitman has produced an excellent lecture on nonstandard models of arithmetic:

https://victoriagitman.github.io/talks/ ... metic.html

If you expand the standard model with the smallest infinite cardinality, aleph0, then you get the countable nonstandard models of arithmetic:



Gitman's lecture does not handle the advanced subject of expansion with uncountable transfinite cardinals. The beth (or aleph) sequence for uncountable cardinals is obtained by successively using the powerset operation for every previous infinite cardinal into a new set cardinal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_sharp

In the mathematical discipline of set theory, 0# (zero sharp, also 0#) is the set of true formulae about indiscernibles and order-indiscernibles in the Gödel constructible universe. It is often encoded as a subset of the natural numbers (using Gödel numbering), or as a subset of the hereditarily finite sets, or as a real number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_cardinal

Large cardinals are understood in the context of the von Neumann universe V, which is built up by transfinitely iterating the powerset operation, which collects together all subsets of a given set.

If there is a measurable cardinal, then iterating the definable powerset operation rather than the full one yields Gödel's constructible universe, L, which does not satisfy the statement "there is a measurable cardinal" (even though it contains the measurable cardinal as an ordinal).

The arithmetical multiverse is very large and contains innumerable universes that influence each other by making true facts in other universes unpredictable. This arithmetical cross-universe influence is provable. If our standard physical universe is structurally similar, then it is subject to similar influences from nonstandard physical ones.

[Age]

But, how does this relate to trying to prove that 'God exists', through mathematics, and/or how heaven and hell are not just illusory?

This post is not about proving that God exists. It is not about Gödel's ontological proof.

It is about the possible structural similarity between the arithmetical multiverse and its physical counterpart.

Okay, so why did you end up telling me about what you think so-called "leaders" of different should be doing?

And, how is the impossible structural similarity between a made up 'arithmetical universe' and the actual Universe, Itself, got to do with heaven and hell supposedly not being just illusory?

In the end, it is the old Pythagorean idea of structural similarity between the world of numbers and the physical world.

you are not wrong when you said, 'old', here.

So, on the one side we have the arithmetical multiverse. Victoria Gitman has produced an excellent lecture on nonstandard models of arithmetic:

https://victoriagitman.github.io/talks/ ... metic.html

If you expand the standard model with the smallest infinite cardinality, aleph0, then you get the countable nonstandard models of arithmetic:



Gitman's lecture does not handle the advanced subject of expansion with uncountable transfinite cardinals. The beth (or aleph) sequence for uncountable cardinals is obtained by successively using the powerset operation for every previous infinite cardinal into a new set cardinal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_sharp

In the mathematical discipline of set theory, 0# (zero sharp, also 0#) is the set of true formulae about indiscernibles and order-indiscernibles in the Gödel constructible universe. It is often encoded as a subset of the natural numbers (using Gödel numbering), or as a subset of the hereditarily finite sets, or as a real number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_cardinal

Large cardinals are understood in the context of the von Neumann universe V, which is built up by transfinitely iterating the powerset operation, which collects together all subsets of a given set.

If there is a measurable cardinal, then iterating the definable powerset operation rather than the full one yields Gödel's constructible universe, L, which does not satisfy the statement "there is a measurable cardinal" (even though it contains the measurable cardinal as an ordinal).

The arithmetical multiverse is very large and contains innumerable universes that influence each other by making true facts in other universes unpredictable. This arithmetical cross-universe influence is provable. If our standard physical universe is structurally similar, then it is subject to similar influences from nonstandard physical ones.

But, the actual One and only Universe is absolutely nothing like what you go on about here.

Because of what the One Universe is actually made up of, and how the One Universe, actually works any idea of 'universes' existing within a 'multiverse' is just insanity, in the extreme.

It could be said and argued that there are multi-verses within the Universe, Itself, but any talk of 'universes' within 'a multiverse' is just a self-contradiction and an oxymoron, to say the least.

As has already been proved irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and Correct.

[godelian]

It could be said and argued that there are multi-verses within the Universe, Itself, but any talk of 'universes' within 'a multiverse' is just a self-contradiction and an oxymoron, to say the least.

What you are arguing, is in denial of the completeness theorem and the compactness theorem, which are both provable. You clearly did not read Victoria Gitman's introductory lecture on the subject:

https://victoriagitman.github.io/talks/ ... metic.html

Gödel (and Maltsev) proved the completeness theorem showing that every collection of statements from which no contradiction can be derived has a model. A powerful consequence of this, the compactness theorem, showed that if every finite fragment of a collection of statements has a model, then so does the entire (no matter how infinitely large) collection.

Seriously, you keep saying things that are provably wrong.

[godelian]

And, how is the impossible structural similarity between a made up 'arithmetical universe' and the actual Universe, Itself, got to do with heaven and hell supposedly not being just illusory?

In religion, heaven and hell are portrayed as nonstandard physical universes. Our universe is the standard physical one.

This view is similar to what we can see in the arithmetical multiverse.

Concerning "a made up 'arithmetical universe'", you seem to believe that mathematics are "made up". How do you explain that we independently "make up" exactly the same things and even prove exactly the same things?

[Sculptor]

You do not know enough about the rest of the world to know how things work. SO..

Do you live in SE Asia? I do. So, what exactly is it that you know about SE Asia that I don't know?

I travelled extensively through Laos, Cambodia, and THailand.

You did not answer my questions.

[Age]

It could be said and argued that there are multi-verses within the Universe, Itself, but any talk of 'universes' within 'a multiverse' is just a self-contradiction and an oxymoron, to say the least.

What you are arguing, is in denial of the completeness theorem and the compactness theorem, which are both provable.

But, even if they are 'provable', neither of them proves what you are trying to say and claim about 'multiverse'.

You clearly did not read Victoria Gitman's introductory lecture on the subject:

https://victoriagitman.github.io/talks/ ... metic.html

Gödel (and Maltsev) proved the completeness theorem showing that every collection of statements from which no contradiction can be derived has a model. A powerful consequence of this, the compactness theorem, showed that if every finite fragment of a collection of statements has a model, then so does the entire (no matter how infinitely large) collection.

Seriously, you keep saying things that are provably wrong.

Like what, exactly?

Just saying and claiming something like you have here never means that what you said and claimed is actually true at all.

I suggest you start to begin to prove your claims here, instead of just making them.

[Age]

And, how is the impossible structural similarity between a made up 'arithmetical universe' and the actual Universe, Itself, got to do with heaven and hell supposedly not being just illusory?

In religion, heaven and hell are portrayed as nonstandard physical universes.

But, in religion, heaven and hell are not portrayed as nonstandard physical universes at. you, obviously, have been listening to, and following, misinterpretations.

Our universe is the standard physical one.

The Universe is not 'yours'.

This view is similar to what we can see in the arithmetical multiverse.

What 'view'?

I suggest you start putting things up, instead of just alluding to some things.

Concerning "a made up 'arithmetical universe'", you seem to believe that mathematics are "made up".

Is what 'seems', to you, absolutely true and right?

How do you explain that we independently "make up" exactly the same things and even prove exactly the same things?

But you, human beings, did not 'make up' the Universe, which is what actually proves things.

[godelian]

But, even if they are 'provable', neither of them proves what you are trying to say and claim about 'multiverse'.

The arithmetical multiverse is provable. The physical multiverse is not. I am only trying to point out the possibility of structural similarity. Your claim that there are no multiverses, is false, because there is an arithmetical one.

[godelian]

But you, human beings, did not 'make up' the Universe, which is what actually proves things.

It is not possible to prove anything about the physical universe. Therefore, claiming that something is not provable about it, is an empty claim.