why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

and the ideals in question are toleration and altruism,
broad mindedness, charity, understanding, and liberalism....

Historically, we have seen, time after time, the diminishing of
others, as people, as a race, as a species.... IQ45 has called
immigrants, ''subhuman'' and this type of denigration of others,
has in fact led to great injustices in the world....

as usual, the best example is the Nazi's and their holding to the Jews
as ''subhuman'' as ''animals''... if we hold to others being ''subhuman''
or ''animal'' it is pretty easy to engaged in the Holocaust.. to
exterminate them, especially if we consider them ''subhuman''
or ''animals'' we hunt down and kill ''animals'' and calling human beings
''animals'' is to bring this to mind....

How easy is it to attack and mistreat others if we hold, they are ''subhuman''
or ''animals?" ..when you call another human being, a ''subhuman''
an ''animal'' or even ''inferior'', you are setting the stage for
another Holocaust... for that is the reasoning for the Holocaust..
to remove inferior or ''subhuman'' beings from existence...
to keep us superior beings alive, and inferior beings, well, dead....

to remove, as Hitler stated all the time, those who have polluted our
country or environment.... that was the very stated reason for the
Holocaust... to remove those who pollute the country with their
very being...and the Nazi's used that exact phrase, pollute the country...
in their justification for the Holocaust... just as the right wing and IQ45 uses
the description of immigrants and blacks as ''animals'' or ''subhuman''...

once you agree that blacks and immigrants are ''animals''
and ''subhuman'' it becomes an easy step to remove their rights
as human beings... to do as IQ45 did, which is separate families,
to remove children from their parents... that policy alone should
have gotten him removed as president... because it engages with people
as ''subhuman'' not being the same level as I am.... and then whatever I do
to them or their children is game, and why? They are, compared to me,
''animals'' at least the way I define it... definitions, the way we define
something has a power that we often don't see....

to think, believe that other human beings can be considered to be ''lower''
then other human beings, or to think about them as ''subhuman'' or ''animals''
is to begin the steps of a genocide of others.... because that is what
we do with ''animals'' we hunt them down and kill them......
because they are ''animals''

Kropotkin
Age
Posts: 20343
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Age »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am and the ideals in question are toleration and altruism,
broad mindedness, charity, understanding, and liberalism....

Historically, we have seen, time after time, the diminishing of
others, as people, as a race, as a species.... IQ45 has called
immigrants, ''subhuman'' and this type of denigration of others,
has in fact led to great injustices in the world....
But, you human beings are animals. And, believing that you not is why you can and do mistreat other animals, and even "yourselves", as badly and Wrongly as you do.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am as usual, the best example is the Nazi's and their holding to the Jews
as ''subhuman'' as ''animals''...
But, why do you say this, when you hold others as 'subhuman' as well "peter kropotkin".

If you want actual examples, then you just have to 'look at' "your" 'self' here, instead.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am if we hold to others being ''subhuman''
or ''animal'' it is pretty easy to engaged in the Holocaust..
But, and again, you human beings are animals.

And, the one here known as "peter kropotkin" considers some as 'subhuman' or 'less than human'.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am to
exterminate them, especially if we consider them ''subhuman''
or ''animals'' we hunt down and kill ''animals'' and calling human beings
''animals'' is to bring this to mind....

How easy is it to attack and mistreat others if we hold, they are ''subhuman''
or ''animals?"
One just has to 'look' here in your writings to 'see' how easy it was for you to attack and mistreat others here, especially when you consider 'them' less than 'you'.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am ..when you call another human being, a ''subhuman''
an ''animal'' or even ''inferior'', you are setting the stage for
another Holocaust... for that is the reasoning for the Holocaust..
to remove inferior or ''subhuman'' beings from existence...
to keep us superior beings alive, and inferior beings, well, dead....
Well this was quite very, very obvious a long time ago.

I also notice how you try to differentiate between 'you' and other animals, so that you can try and feel 'superior', 'to them'.

you, after all, still, think or believe that it is alright to kill non human animals, right?

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am to remove, as Hitler stated all the time, those who have polluted our
country or environment.... that was the very stated reason for the
Holocaust...
But, still, in the days when this is being written there are people who still talk like this, 'about others'.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am to remove those who pollute the country with their
very being...and the Nazi's used that exact phrase, pollute the country...
In the days when this is being written, it is, still, a very common habit, especially among the older human beings, to 'look at' and 'judge' 'others', instead of 'looking at' and 'judging' "themselves".
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am in their justification for the Holocaust... just as the right wing and IQ45 uses
the description of immigrants and blacks as ''animals'' or ''subhuman''...
Again, it is always 'the others' who do Wrong and behave badly.

Why do you not 'look at' and 'judge' "your" 'self' here "peter kropotkin". For there is quite a lot that can be 'looked at', and 'judged' here, as well.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am once you agree that blacks and immigrants are ''animals'' and ''subhuman'' it becomes an easy step to remove their rights
as human beings...
That you adult human beings had, still, not yet 'grown up', 'matured', and 'evolved enough', back in the 'olden days' when this was being written, to still call and label you human beings as "blacks" or "whites" shows and reveals how Truly far behind you really were.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am to do as IQ45 did, which is separate families,
to remove children from their parents... that policy alone should
have gotten him removed as president... because it engages with people
as ''subhuman'' not being the same level as I am.... and then whatever I do
to them or their children is game, and why? They are, compared to me,
''animals'' at least the way I define it... definitions, the way we define
something has a power that we often don't see....
you adult human beings here, in the day when this is being written, do not, yet, realize the True power, and potential, the words that you say and use have 'over' you.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:13 am to think, believe that other human beings can be considered to be ''lower''
then other human beings, or to think about them as ''subhuman'' or ''animals''
is to begin the steps of a genocide of others.... because that is what
we do with ''animals'' we hunt them down and kill them......
because they are ''animals''

Kropotkin
How many times do you have to same the exact same thing over?

And, saying the exact same thing as though it is Wrong or bad, while you are doing the exact same thing "yourself" is known as being hypocritical "peter kropotkin".
Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

Re: why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

as everything seems to be an affront to Age, I shall do what I always
do with Age, ignore them.....

But the question still remains, what values are values worth holding and why
those values? the answer comes from two questions,

a. What are human beings?
b. what is the goal/purpose of said, human beings?

we can't know what values we should hold if we don't know who
we are, and we certainly can't know meaning and purpose without
values to define them...

the path into the future is linked with our knowing who we are
and what is the point/meaning of being human?
the Greeks knew exactly who they were and they were the
greatest innovators in the world in regard to the intellectual
world we have ever known.....

According to the Greeks, the universe could be rationally known..
that is where they began... that the universe could be rationally
known... and for them, the way to know/understand the world/universe
was by disciplines like history, Metaphysics, Math, philosophy, and
geography to name a few disciplines invented by the Greeks....
that each branch of the various disciplines held part of the answer
to the question, what does it mean to be human and what aspects
of this branch help us answer the overall question of what is the point/
purpose of our existence.....

we are simply following the footsteps of the Greeks in our pursuit
of the answer to the questions, what does it mean to be human
and what is the point/purpose of existence?

but we have come to see, that in the long search for meaning
and values, that the various disciplines, are really not
separate aspects of different things, they are simply different aspects
of the same thing... our story, the human story is simply just another
aspect of the story of life...with each step of understanding, we see
that we are part of the story of evolution, of biology, we are part
of the story of physics, and cosmology.... the story isn't happening out
there, it is happening in us, as part of us... we are not separate or
apart from the story of physics or biology or evolution....
we are front and center in the story of those disciplines...
as it has become clear, that part of every story comes in
who tells it and what aspects of the story is emphasized...

we, as story tellers, change the nature of our understanding of
the universe...our stories of the universe changes the nature of
the universe...this is the fundamental thing we have begun
to understand in science... that our observations of nature
changes the story of nature.... the double slit experiment
tells us about the probabilistic nature of the universe....
and we by observing nature, changes the nature of
this probabilistic universe....
what we emphasize and what we edit, changes the nature of the story of
the universe... just as we emphasize money as the key part of human nature,
makes money become the key purpose/meaning of life, of existence...
if we change our perspective to god being the point/meaning of
existence, money loses value... money has no point or meaning...
just as it did in the Middle Ages... the point/meaning of existence
was to be one with god, not the pursuit of money as it is today.....
and that emphasis, it changes our understanding of what it means
to be human...... the values we choose, changes what it means to
be human and what is the point/meaning of our existence....

reality comes from our emphasis on what values we use...
and live by..... our own actions and emphasis determine the
meaning and purpose of our existence...

this is vastly different than the ism's of the world, the ism of communism
is very different and is about the human need to get on board with
the inevitable worker state or with religion being about getting on
board with going to heaven as our primary goal/purpose of existence.....
even with capitalism.. where the point/meaning of existence is to gain
wealth and being able to buy material goods... that is the only goal
of capitalism.... if we change our emphasis, we change the nature
of the goal we seek...we discover a new meaning, purpose of existence
simply by changing what it means to be human.....and what we should
be seeking if not money or fame or power or titles or material possessions....

what you want to seek changes the nature of your own meaning
and purpose....

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

Re: why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

and what does the above statement mean?

that we need to be active participants in our creation of
goals and meaning and purpose...

right now, we are passive participants in our goal, meaning,
purpose pursuits... we allow the state/society to decide what
our goals and purpose is... that we still pursue wealth and power
and titles and material possession tell me that we are still
beholden to the state/society for our goals and meaning....

what the state dictates becomes our own goals/meaning....
not us, but the state/society wants becomes our own goal....
this is true in following any ism or ideology... that goal becomes
your goal... be it communism, working toward a worker state,
or capitalism which is working for the corporations to make
them money/wealth, and you get to barely survive your life....
or to religion, where the point and purpose comes from what god
wants, or to get back to the nothingness of existence... where death/
nonexistence is a better state than living..

we can begin by taking an active role in our own choosing what
is our meaning and purpose in our existence....instead of following
the state/society demands that we act in their name and purpose,
we take the incentive and own what is our own meaning and purpose....

I do so, when I write down philosophy, not as a worker of the state,
as philosophy professors are, but as an individual seeking out the
meaning and purpose of not only my life, but everyone's life......

by being able to choose the value on which I live out my life...
not as it is chosen by another, as the corporations do, by choosing
profits over any value I may choose...or by the state or society
choosing patriotism and sacrifice over any value I may choose....

as different organizations choose different values, depending on
what their goal is, I can, must be free to choose the values that
I want, to live my life.... I don't need to be held hostage by
different organizations that want me to hold and live by their
values, not mine.....

how to be free in the modern age is to simply live your life by
your values... it takes nothing more.... and that act, that
radical act will create much anger and hatred toward you...

pick a value and live that value... that all it takes to be a radical
these days.... to become who you are by becoming, by living
out your live by taking a value, and living that value, 24/7 as
a way of life....

Kropotkin
User avatar
Alexis Jacobi
Posts: 5389
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am

Re: why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

…and the ideals in question are toleration and altruism, broad mindedness, charity, understanding, and liberalism....
You could also say that intolerance needs to be cultivated.

Altruism would require an expanded definition. If you mean “selfless concern for others through some cost to oneself” it could also be proposed that that attitude (in the larger sense of what you are proposing) needs to modification.

Broadmindedness too. You mean “as I define it” of course.

And it could be a respectable demonstration of ideals to counter-propose to liberalism a in its present, defective forms.
Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

Re: why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:15 pm
…and the ideals in question are toleration and altruism, broad mindedness, charity, understanding, and liberalism....
You could also say that intolerance needs to be cultivated.

Altruism would require an expanded definition. If you mean “selfless concern for others through some cost to oneself” it could also be proposed that that attitude (in the larger sense of what you are proposing) needs to modification.

Broadmindedness too. You mean “as I define it” of course.

And it could be a respectable demonstration of ideals to counter-propose to liberalism a in its present, defective forms.
K: I do not believe that ''intolerance" needs to be cultivated...
we have quite enough ''intolerance'' in the world already...

so, lay out your concerns, your ''modifications'' as it were,
make your counter-proposal to liberalism as you claim it
is presently, ''defective''

Kropotkin
User avatar
Alexis Jacobi
Posts: 5389
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am

Re: why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Respectfully, your orientation is pretty obviously Left-Progressive. I understand and am in some senses on that side. However, liberalism has it excesses and even its putrescences. It believes itself *absolutely right* in a way similar to the American sense of Manifest Destiny. It is in some manifestations a deeply Puritanical absolutism.

I say that it could be needed and potentially beneficial to show •intolerance• for that stance and attitude. And indeed, in some circles, that is happening.

I do not oppose Liberalism I admire it. But the Liberalism I admire was a construct of a far more conservative cultural matrix. We are now no longer in such a matrix and Liberalism (could be said to have become) Hyper-Liberalism or a Liberalism with different (modified? perverted?) foundations.
Age
Posts: 20343
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: why it is important to hold to certain ideals...

Post by Age »

As can be clearly seen here, once more, some people from some particular countries think and write as though what happens in the country and 'cult'/ure that there were brought up and raised in, and now look up to as some sort of 'god', has some sort of importance in regards to 'philosophical issues' for the rest of the world or for human beings, "themselves".

As seen here these people's ability to view and 'look' has greatly diminished so much so that they can only see things from the very tiniest perspective. Their perception has shrunk and narrowed so much that they are, literally, nearly completely and utterly blind in regards to 'philosophy', itself.
Post Reply