FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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FlashDangerpants
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:49 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:08 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:07 am
If you have rational argument to argue your case, go ahead.
I have researched enough about 'autism' to know I don't fit into that spectrum.
I have argued, you are the one who is more like to fit within the autism spectrum in not being able to understand [not agree] with my point of view, thus manufacturing strawman[s] against me.
Ok , show me. Give me an explanation of why no professional philosopher would ever publish a paper arguing that other philosophers who hold a position counter to his must have a cognitive deficit.

Also, speak with a doctor, you are undiagnosed and that isn't good for you. All you really have to do is show him the spreadsheet of the Quran, he'll arrange the tests right away.
Boyd did not specifically assert....
Answer the question. Anybody who isn't autistic will have more than one good reason, but you can have a discount.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:49 am Spreadsheet analysis of the Quran = autism??
Yes, and quite obviously so as well. You wasted years to learn Arabaic in order to waste years putting the Quran into a pointless spreadsheet. Only an obsessive autist would do that.

Now go to a doctor and get tested.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:51 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:49 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:08 pm
Ok , show me. Give me an explanation of why no professional philosopher would ever publish a paper arguing that other philosophers who hold a position counter to his must have a cognitive deficit.

Also, speak with a doctor, you are undiagnosed and that isn't good for you. All you really have to do is show him the spreadsheet of the Quran, he'll arrange the tests right away.
Boyd did not specifically assert....
Answer the question. Anybody who isn't autistic will have more than one good reason, but you can have a discount.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:49 am Spreadsheet analysis of the Quran = autism??
Yes, and quite obviously so as well. You wasted years to learn Arabaic in order to waste years putting the Quran into a pointless spreadsheet. Only an obsessive autist would do that.

Now go to a doctor and get tested.
Note this is which parallel to the point re cognitive deficit:
while the below mentioned brain damage, the moral deficit that Boyd's mentioned is more toward the under-development of the moral faculty;
Cognitive Impairments Can Promote Religious Fundamentalism
Scientists have found a link between religious fundamentalism and brain damage

A study published in the journal Neuropsychologia has revealed a connection between a functional impairment in the brain region known as the prefrontal cortex and an inclination toward religious fundamentalism. The findings suggest that brain damage to this particular area indirectly promotes religious fundamentalism by diminishing cognitive flexibility and openness—a psychology term that describes a personality trait that involves dimensions like curiosity, creativity, and open-mindedness.
................

By investigating the cognitive and neural underpinnings of religious fundamentalism, we can better understand how the phenomenon is represented in the connectivity of the brain, which could allow us to someday inoculate against rigid or radical belief systems through various kinds of mental and cognitive exercises.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... amentalism
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:23 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:51 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:49 am
Boyd did not specifically assert....
Answer the question. Anybody who isn't autistic will have more than one good reason, but you can have a discount.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:49 am Spreadsheet analysis of the Quran = autism??
Yes, and quite obviously so as well. You wasted years to learn Arabaic in order to waste years putting the Quran into a pointless spreadsheet. Only an obsessive autist would do that.

Now go to a doctor and get tested.
Note this is which parallel to the point re cognitive deficit:
while the below mentioned brain damage, the moral deficit that Boyd's mentioned is more toward the under-development of the moral faculty;
Cognitive Impairments Can Promote Religious Fundamentalism
Scientists have found a link between religious fundamentalism and brain damage

A study published in the journal Neuropsychologia has revealed a connection between a functional impairment in the brain region known as the prefrontal cortex and an inclination toward religious fundamentalism. The findings suggest that brain damage to this particular area indirectly promotes religious fundamentalism by diminishing cognitive flexibility and openness—a psychology term that describes a personality trait that involves dimensions like curiosity, creativity, and open-mindedness.
................

By investigating the cognitive and neural underpinnings of religious fundamentalism, we can better understand how the phenomenon is represented in the connectivity of the brain, which could allow us to someday inoculate against rigid or radical belief systems through various kinds of mental and cognitive exercises.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... amentalism
Again, please demonstrate that you have the ability to assign appropriate thinking to other persons as a non-autist would by answering this incredibly simple question.... Give me an explanation of why no professional philosopher would ever publish a paper arguing that other philosophers who hold a position counter to his must have a cognitive deficit.

There is no point squirming and evading.
Iwannaplato
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Iwannaplato »

I mean, seriously VA.
Brain damage or deficits could lead to increase motivated reasoning and confirmation bias and a reduced ability to deal with cognitive dissonance. All leading to someone unable to admit they contradicted themselves, misread something, misunderstood something fundamental or simply presented an argument because it seemed like a good idea in the moment without even noticing how that argument contradicted core ideas they have expressed elsewhere.

The kind of idiotic ad hom this thread represents, gussied up as if it is somehow connected to science, rather than ego-driven anger at someone you disagree with, is only going to add to people not taking you seriously, even if many of scattered and often contradictory ideas you present could be taken seriously.

The same idiotic ad hom in science drag you are aiming at FDP can easily be aimed at you and we can all have a field day calling out where there are lesions and deficits in your brain.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:43 am we can all have a field day calling out where there are lesions and deficits in your brain.
I think we should actually be encouraging him to get a test. He could have a specialist therapist to help him find more constructive ways to engage with other people. It would do him good.
Iwannaplato
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Iwannaplato »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:46 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:43 am we can all have a field day calling out where there are lesions and deficits in your brain.
I think we should actually be encouraging him to get a test. He could have a specialist therapist to help him find more constructive ways to engage with other people. It would do him good.
Perhaps. But godelian is now in the Koran spreadsheet thread and a 'dialogue' between those two is one they both heartily deserve. Perhaps the same different mirror of the other will lead to an insight.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:58 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:46 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:43 am we can all have a field day calling out where there are lesions and deficits in your brain.
I think we should actually be encouraging him to get a test. He could have a specialist therapist to help him find more constructive ways to engage with other people. It would do him good.
Perhaps. But godelian is now in the Koran spreadsheet thread and a 'dialogue' between those two is one they both heartily deserve. Perhaps the same different mirror of the other will lead to an insight.
Like that thing with the mirror in the bottom of a bucket huh? Two monkeys, one bucket.
Atla
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Atla »

Imo it only adds to the mistique of VA that he somehow manages to come across as autistic without (imo) being particularly autistic. Or maybe he is, who knows. But he is so dense and so fixed, inflexible in his views, that he can even drive autistics and Aspies up the wall.

My theory is that VA was once a religious fanatic with a solipsistic/schizoid bent, and at one point he overloaded and went psychotic which messed up his mind, a lot got tangled in there, so even after the recovery he can't think straight anymore much. And can't see the big picture, just small disjointed pictures. Terrible at understanding what others think. Not that he was ever particularly bright or anything.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

It is very typical, when interlocutors do not have valid and sound arguments to counter arguments posed by others, they will resort to insults, pejorative condemnations and other childish remarks. This is what Trump was and is still doing.
This is also what FDP, Atla, IWP and the likes are doing in this forum, i.e. focusing on childish matters instead of rational discussions.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:56 am It is very typical, when interlocutors do not have valid and sound arguments to counter arguments posed by others, they will resort to insults, pejorative condemnations and other childish remarks. This is what Trump was and is still doing.
This is also what FDP, Atla, IWP and the likes are doing in this forum, i.e. focusing on childish matters instead of rational discussions.
You started a whole thread about me having a cognitive deficit so really you are in no position to comment.

Back to the topic. We all know that one of the big flashing signs of autism is a difficulty understanding what others are thinking or feeling. So, the question I posed wasn't beside the point at all. please demonstrate that you have the ability to assign appropriate thinking to other persons as a non-autist would by answering this incredibly simple question.... Give me an explanation of why no professional philosopher would ever publish a paper arguing that other philosophers who hold a position counter to his must have a cognitive deficit.

This apparent inability of yours to understand what it is like to be other people is how you ended up believing this absurd argument of yours has any merit. What I am trying to do is show you how you could have realised it was bogus for yourself by just thinking it through from Boyd's point of view. If you can't do that, you ought to speak to your doctor about a diagnosis.
Atla
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Atla »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:56 am It is very typical, when interlocutors do not have valid and sound arguments to counter arguments posed by others, they will resort to insults, pejorative condemnations and other childish remarks. This is what Trump was and is still doing.
This is also what FDP, Atla, IWP and the likes are doing in this forum, i.e. focusing on childish matters instead of rational discussions.
If you were able to understand other's POVs and arguments, you would see how thoroughly most of your arguments were countered ages ago.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:56 am It is very typical, when interlocutors do not have valid and sound arguments to counter arguments posed by others, they will resort to insults, pejorative condemnations and other childish remarks. This is what Trump was and is still doing.
This is also what FDP, Atla, IWP and the likes are doing in this forum, i.e. focusing on childish matters instead of rational discussions.
While we wait for you to realise this isn't going away just because you do some hand waving about it, I posed that same quesiton to Gemini...
The question wrote:Would a professional philosopher ever publish a paper arguing that other philosophers who hold a position counter to his must have a cognitive deficit?
Gemini AI wrote: It is generally considered unprofessional in academic philosophy to attribute cognitive deficits to those with differing viewpoints. Philosophical discourse thrives on the exchange of ideas and the ability to rigorously challenge and defend positions. Resorting to personal attacks on an opponent's cognitive abilities weakens the argument and is disrespectful to the profession.

Here's why a professional philosopher wouldn't take this approach:
  • Focus on Ideas: The aim of philosophy is to analyze ideas and arguments, not the people who propose them. Attacking someone's intelligence suggests the critic is more interested in winning an argument than rigorously examining the ideas.
  • Strengthens Opponent's Position: Name-calling can garner sympathy for the person being attacked and deflect attention away from the merits of the counter-argument.
  • Peer Review: Academic papers go through a peer-review process where other philosophers assess the work. A paper resorting to personal attacks is unlikely to be well-received.
There are of course, exceptions. Philosophy can be a heated field, and personal attacks do occasionally occur. However, such behavior is generally frowned upon and can damage the philosopher's reputation.
Right now, the bot is doing a better job of posing as a human than you are.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:58 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:46 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:43 am we can all have a field day calling out where there are lesions and deficits in your brain.
I think we should actually be encouraging him to get a test. He could have a specialist therapist to help him find more constructive ways to engage with other people. It would do him good.
Perhaps. But godelian is now in the Koran spreadsheet thread and a 'dialogue' between those two is one they both heartily deserve. Perhaps the same different mirror of the other will lead to an insight.
Woah, that conversation is getting real ugly. Having an incel sex-tourist taking on the autist in a battle over religion can not end well.
Iwannaplato
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Iwannaplato »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:19 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:58 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:46 am
I think we should actually be encouraging him to get a test. He could have a specialist therapist to help him find more constructive ways to engage with other people. It would do him good.
Perhaps. But godelian is now in the Koran spreadsheet thread and a 'dialogue' between those two is one they both heartily deserve. Perhaps the same different mirror of the other will lead to an insight.
Woah, that conversation is getting real ugly. Having an incel sex-tourist taking on the autist in a battle over religion can not end well.
There are at least the occasional moments of justice and karmic elegance, in any case. I suggest we don't even look. Just knowing they are, somewhere in the universe, clawing at each other is a balm. It's also happening here: Kant: It is Impossible to Prove God Exists as Real.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: FDP has a Cognitive Moral Deficit in Morality

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

I did a detailed analysis earlier, I am posting this as an exception.
FDP claimed he understood Boyd's point based on merely a cherry picked para from below, but he is wrong.
Below is my detailed analysis to justify why FDP [as a moral skeptic] has a moral cognitive moral deficit in Morality.

S4.7 How To Be A Moral Realist
Richard Boyd

There remains but one of the challenges to Moral Realism which we are here considering.

Objection: Moral Realism is Impossible – no relation between moral facts and action
It has often been objected against Moral Realism that there is some sort of logical connection between moral judgments and reasons for action which a moral realist cannot account for.

Objection to Moral Realism:
Moral judgments are seen as inherently connected to reasons for action.
Since facts (like moral facts in moral realism) don't provide reasons for action,
moral realism must be false.

It might be held, for example, that
the recognition that one course of action is morally preferable to another necessarily provides a reason (even if not a decisive one) to prefer the morally better course of action.
Mere facts (especially mere natural facts) cannot have this sort of logical connection to rational choice or reasons for action.
Therefore, so the objection goes, there cannot be moral facts;
Moral Realism (or at least naturalistic Moral Realism) is impossible.

Naturalistic Moral Realist must deny moral judgments necessarily provide reasons for action; possible for humans where moral judgments provided no reasons for action.
It is of course true that the naturalistic moral realist must deny that moral judgments necessarily provide reasons for action; surely, for example, there could be nonhuman cognizing systems which could understand the natural facts about Moral goodness but be entirely indifferent to them in choosing how to act.
Moral judgments might provide for them [nonhuman cognizing systems] no reasons for action whatsoever.
Moreover, it is hard to see how the naturalistic moral realist can escape the conclusion that it would be logically possible for there to be a human being for whom moral judgments provided no reasons for action.
The moral realist must therefore deny that the connection between morality and reasons for action is so strong as the objection we are considering maintains.
The appearance of an especially intimate connection must be explained in some other way.

Naturist response: preference one choice among two is morally preferable, indicate some moral reason exists
The standard naturalist response is to explain the apparent intimacy of the connection by arguing that the natural property Moral goodness is one such that for psychologically normal humans, the fact that one of two choices is morally preferable will in fact provide some reason for preferring it.

Homeostatic consequentialist conception of the Good re human needs, explain connection between moral judgments and reason for action; but do not explain why it is a necessary one
The Homeostatic consequentialist conception of the Good is especially well suited to this response since it defines the Good in terms of the homeostatic unity of fundamental human needs.
It seems to me that this explanation of the close connection between moral judgments and reasons for action is basically right,
but it ignores—it seems to me—one important source of the anti-realist’s intuition that the connection between moral judgments and rational choice must be a necessary one.

Moral Judgments are motivationally indifferent due to cognitive deficit. Anti-realists argue this deficit due to no necessary connection.
What I have in mind is the very strong intuition which many philosophers share
that the person for whom moral judgments are motivationally indifferent would not only be psychologically atypical [not representative of a type, group, or class.] but would have some sort of cognitive deficit with respect to moral reasoning as well.
The anti-realist diagnoses this [cognitive] deficit as a failure to recognize a definitional or otherwise necessary connection between Moral goodness and reasons for action.

Boyd differed from the anti-realist’s view of no necessary connection; instead to Boyd argued it is akin to a perceptual deficit
I think that there is a deep insight in the view that
people for whom questions of Moral goodness are irrelevant to how they would choose to act - suffer a cognitive deficit.
I propose that the deficit is not—as the anti-realist would have it—a failure to recognize a necessary connection between moral judgments and reasons for action.
Instead, I suggest, if we adopt a naturalistic conception of moral knowledge we can diagnose in such people a deficit in the capacity to make moral judgments somewhat akin to a perceptual deficit.

The perceptual deficit is in terms of Hume’s Causal Theory of moral knowledge to moral reasoning re empathy
What I have in mind is the application of a causal theory of moral knowledge to the examination of a feature of moral reasoning which has been well understood in the empiricist tradition since Hume, that is, the role of sympathy [empathy] in moral understanding.

Inherent Capacity for Empathy – [Mirror Neurons] to access human goods and harms [via homeostatic cluster]
It is extremely plausible that for normal human beings
the capacity to access human goods and harms [to inherently intuitively have]
—the capacity to recognize the extent to which others are well or poorly off with respect to the homeostatic cluster of moral goods and
the capacity to anticipate correctly the probable effect on others’ well-being of various counterfactual circumstances
—depends upon their capacity for sympathy [empathy],
their capacity to imagine themselves in the situation of others
or even to find themselves involuntarily doing so in cases in which others are especially well or badly off.

The idea that sympathy [empathy] plays this sort of cognitive role is a truism of nineteenth-century faculty psychology [psychology FSRC], and it is very probably right.

Empathy is motivational re contingent psychological fact has cognitive and motivational role in normal humans
It is also very probably right, as Hume insists, that the operation of sympathy [empathy] is motivationally important:
as a matter of contingent psychological fact,
• when we put ourselves in the place of others in imagination,
• the effects of our doing so include our taking pleasure in others’ pleasures
• and our feeling distress at their misfortune,
• and we are thus motivated to care for the well-being of others.

The psychological mechanisms by which all this takes place may be more complicated than Hume imagined, but the fact remains that one and the same psychological mechanism—sympathy [empathy]—plays both a cognitive and a motivational role in normal human beings.

Morally unconcerned person suffers a cognitive moral deficit, with deficient in cognitive capacity re empathy & awareness of this moral fact [moral FRSC] – contingent to human psychology FSRC.
We are now in a position to see why the morally unconcerned person, the person for whom moral facts are motivationally irrelevant, probably suffers a cognitive deficit with respect to moral reasoning.
Such a person would have to be deficient in sympathy [empathy], because the motivational role of sympathy [empathy] is precisely to make moral facts motivationally relevant.
In consequence, she or he would be deficient with respect to a cognitive capacity (sympathy [empathy]) which is ordinarily important for the correct assessment of moral facts.
The motivational deficiency would, as a matter of contingent fact about human psychology, be a cognitive deficiency as well.
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