free will, determinism, and necessity...

[Age]

There is no such thing as absolute freedom,which is popularly called 'Free Will'

What has 'made you' choose or take 'this position', "belinda"?

However some people are freer than others.
If you have correct information you will be more free than someone else who lacks correct information or who has been misinformed.

And, how does one obtain so-called 'correct information', and where do they obtain 'this information' from, exactly?

If you have been taught how to think for yourself you are are at less risk of becoming unfree.

But, one cannot ' think for "themself" ', if as you 'informed' us, correctly or not, that there is no such thing as 'absolute freedom'.

See, one could only ' think for "themself" ', properly or Correctly, if they had 'absolute freedom', because if one does not have 'absolute freedom', then they, literally, would not be 'thinking', ' for "themselves" '.

If you have been taught life skills such as how to use your imagination and create ideas and artefacts you will be that much more free.

But, what is 'taught' exists solely on, and is dependent solely upon, 'determinism', itself. As you are showing and proving here.

you, obviously, well following your believe and 'logic' here anyway, are being 'made to' think, or believe, that you cannot be taught to use your imagination and create ideas 'freely'. you believe, and thus are teaching, that you and others 'have to' relay on others and other things for imagination and creation.

Can you, yet, 'see' that your view and belief here that there is no such thing as 'absolute freedom' stops and prevents you from being 'more free'.

you have, literally, not been taught the 'life skills' of how to use your imagination and create ideas, and so you are now not teaching the 'life skills' of how to use imagination to create new ideas.

you are, literally, teaching what you have been taught and that is that you cannot be 'more freer' than what you are 'now'. As, you believe, and thus teach, you cannot have 'absolute freedom', and thus be 'absolutely free'.

Which is, obviously, not using imagination, thinking freely, nor creating new ideas.

Similarly if you have been taught how to manage relationships with other humans and animals and your environment as a whole then you will be more free than somebody who lacks these skills.

Have any of you adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, been taught how to manage relationships with other animals, including you animal human beings, and your environment as a whole?

Also, would any of you expect to have ever been taught 'this'?

Obviously, none of you have ever learned 'this' before, so how could anyone expect any of you to 'teach this'?

[Age]

I often come back to this point... what is man/human beings?

The word 'man' can refer to the 'male gendered', of the human species.

And, the words 'human beings' when referred to the visible 'human body', and 'the person', the invisible thoughts and emotions within the human body, then working out who and what you human beings, and as well as working out how you human beings actually work, because a much simpler and easier process to comprehend, understand, and teach and learn.

part of what made the Greek civilization so, well, frankly great,
was they had a common understanding of what a man was...
a bipedal rational creature...

So, to the so-called "greek civilization", well according to "peter kropotkin" anyway, they understood that a human body with vaginas was a 'man'.

And, that 'this' made that civilization 'frankly great'. Well again to "peter kropotkin" anyway.

was often the phrased used in
describing what a human being was... the Greeks thought that
the universe was a rational place which could be understood rationally....
today, we know better...

So, "peter kropotkin" believes that 'it' and others, in the days when this is being written, know better that the Universe is a rational place, which could be understood rationally.

Which, more or less means, that to "peter kropotkin" anyway, the Universe is not a 'rational place', and cannot be understood 'rationally' either.

"peter kropotkin" also believes that there are others who believe these things as well.

one thing that the Greeks did much better
than we do, is trying to account for randomness and chance aspect of
existence... there gods were the reason for the existence of change,
chance and chaos......

and what of man, what is the human creature?
we have called human beings, Homo ergaster which means
beings that work... and being that worship.. Homo adoran..
or perhaps homo fictus.. fictional man.... or perhaps,
homo politicus,, beings that care about justice, common welfare,
and the sustainability of the natural basis of life...
homo oeconomicus... beings that in some economic theories as a rational
person who pursues wealth for their own self-interest...
we have a lot of theories that might explain the communality of
human beings...

and I offer up one more theory... beings that solve problems...
homo... no ideas what that might be called? anyway, that is one of the
basic and fundamental aspect of human existence...
and many here will just dismiss that before they even
consider it.. but it makes sense...

So, in other words, in what you, supposedly, often come back to, you, still, really have no actual idea nor clue as to what 'man/human being' really is, right?

now the interesting thing is this... if problems can have different solutions,
that seems to suggest that there is no such thing as a universal solution to
our problems.. solutions that work for everyone, at all times... if our problems
are different than the Greeks problems, than we require different solutions...
and I suggest that every society/state/civilization had different problems
that needed to be solved...and thus needs different solutions...

and we can relate this into our modern world... thus, we can see
the polarization of Americans coming from the fact that those on
the left sees different problems than those on the right...
and different problems require different solutions.. and no solution
is universal, answering all problems with the same answer...
as the right tends to do.....

so, to seek an overall understanding of this problem... we look into
history and see something interesting.. we see that our isms, our
disciplines are solutions to a problem...our study of history is a solution
to a problem, math is a solution to a problem, philosophy is a solution
to a problem...ism's like capitalism and communism and Catholicism are
all solutions to a problem.. as is the idea of government itself..
government is a solution to a problem... and different problems
require different solutions... and this is a response to the question,
what is being human? we are beings seeking answers to questions,
and the only way to get those answers is through isms and ideologies,
and disciplines like math or history...

so, we can backtrack different solutions into the problem being faced...
thus, we can see the Eternal forms of Plato as being a solution to
the problem of the appearance of change in our field of vision...
One of the questions that the Greeks faced, what this question of
change.. and was change real or just a mask for something else?
the answer of we can only step into a river once, is an answer about
the idea of change in the universe... it is a solution to the problem
of change or is change not real, it just looks real.. but isn't...

but we have no sense of that problem.. we don't need an answer to
that because it isn't a problem today, as it was for the Greeks...
we moderns have different problems in which we seek solutions....

both communism and capitalism are solutions to a problem...
they are both economic systems and thus solutions to
economic problems...and democracies and monarchies are political
solutions to a political problem... and we have to understand the
difference between economic and political problems/solutions....

and so, we return to the original problem.. of free will, determinism
and necessity.... and how do we connect our problems/solutions into
context of free will? One of the things about communism, is the
very need to proclaim it as a solution to a problem...
and as something that is part of necessity... that the inherent fate
of capitalism is to become a ''worker state''.. that that is going to
happen regardless of what we do or say about it... becoming a ''worker state''
is going to be a necessity... we are told that it is inevitable ...
and something that is inevitable is not free will but is determinism..
we have no choice.. that is the future.. the coming ''worker state''....
and the word inevitable means we have no free will/choice in the matter....
let us take another ism and deep dive into it... capitalism....

even a cursory look at capitalism tells us that capitalism is not
about free will/choice, but about determinism... necessity....

we have two points in which we can see capitalism is not about free will..
the first point is in the very necessity of capitalism...for capitalism to
succeed, it must have, requires that the business exploits its workers....
forcing workers to create profits over what they pay the workers...
this profit exploitation is pretty clear...the entire goal of business is
to make profits... and to do so requires a business to pay workers less
money than they create... if I create $10 dollars in sandwiches, they
cannot pay me for th0at.. it doesn't create profits if they pay me the same
amount for my production... they must pay, have to out of necessity, to
pay me less for my efforts... thus, I might get $5 dollars for the $10
dollars of effort/production...this is the only way for capitalism to
succeed.. there is no other way.. this is necessity and within necessity
comes determinism... if there is no free will, no choice, there is only
determinism.. then the entire system of capitalism is anti-free choice...
and another brick in the wall is the fact that we cannot opt out of
capitalism as a system... we have no free will in working within capitalism...
we could say no, and starve to death while living on the streets.. that that
choice is no choice given that we are programed by evolution to
''stay alive'' at all costs.. the will to live is very, very strong in human beings...
and this leads to conflicts... to have free will in the matter of capitalism,
we must ignore our evolutionary programming of living out our lives at all
costs... living on the streets is a very dangerous way of living... which violates
our prime directive of continuing living at all costs...
necessity vs free will.. comes at a cost....

so, we have two such ism's that have, at their heart, this question
of free will vs determinism...

if something is necessary, it isn't free will... and if it is truly free will,
it isn't necessary..

to continue on my understanding of capitalism.. we hold that
capitalism is about choice, and choice is free will.. but is
capitalism really about free will? is free will really about which
deodorant we decide upon? or the other problem, among many,
is this question, that Marx even faced, was the question of monopolies....
as fewer and fewer businesses own more and more, and we see this
every single day.... check out how Kroger's want to buy out Albertsons
all the while pretending that it will give consumers greater choice,
a bald face lie if there ever was one... and that becoming bigger will
reduce the prices within stores, another bald face lie...

and this reduction of the marketplace is happening in every industry in
America...from cars, to cereals to the number of airlines to tire manufacturing...
every single industry has smaller and smaller number of businesses engaged in
that industry... look at two sectors... cereals... we have entire shelfs
of cereals.. but look closer and we see that there are only 4 manufacturers
of cereals in America today and those companies own 85% of all cereal sales
in America...we have Kellogg which has about 30% of the cereal business,
we have General Mills, which has about 30%, we have Post holdings which has
about 19% and we have private labels which is about 7%.. thus about 86%...
of all cereals in America is produced by just 4 companies...and that is typical
of products in America...

for example, the 95% of all Media in America is owned by 5 companies...
Comcast, The Walt Disney company, Warner Bros, Discovery and Paramount
Global...and this owning of the media is a world wide problem....
not just an America problem...and thus, where is our free choice, our
free will if 95% of all media is owned by just 5 companies.....

free will is driven by choice, and if we have no choice, we have
no free will.. it is as simple as that...

So, it is the converse as simple also that if you have choice, then you have 'free will'?

and in my posts, I have yet come across where the free will is in
our lives...

Well considering that it is only you, and you alone, who writes 'your posts', then if you are have yet to come across some thing, in 'your posts', then this would fall back on to you, and you alone, right?

I wonder where free will lies in America today?

Kropotkin

How much narrower or CLOSED could one come across here.

The thread title includes the words 'free will', but this one wonders where 'free will' lies in one of the CLOSED 'cult'/ures, in one of the Truly delusional or worst periods of 'time'.

[Age]

The FAA basically rubber stamps the giant Boeing corporation’s new planes, including its flawed 737 Max product (and who-knows-what before and after it).

The first 737 Max crash was Lion Air Flight 610 [October 29, 2018] and the second was Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 [March 10, 2019], together horrifically killing all 346 people onboard.

Meanwhile, Transport Canada typically waits for the FAA's decision on whether it grounds the planes flown by American carriers — while Transport Canada still allows them to fly in Canada. ... WTF?!?!

It's still most concerning, especially when considering the disasters were quite preventable but happened essentially due to Boeing corporate profit maximization. ...

But are not all businesses built on 'corporate profit maximization' or at least 'profit maximization'?

Is not 'profit' the whole and very purpose of 'the businesses' you adult human beings formulate and create?

It seems the superfluous-wealth desires of the few, and especially the one, increasingly outweigh the life-necessity needs of the many.

Why does this only 'seem' to you?

Is it not blatantly obvious that businesses are created for absolutely nothing at all to do with 'needs', which always, without clarification, refers to 'life-necessity things'. Of which there are about four of them, only.

And, every business I know of was created for 'wants' only, and not 'needs' at all.

And our corporate news-media deems that reality ‘unfit to print’.

Is that the for 'profit' news-media business you are talking about here?

Perhaps the unlimited-profit objective/nature is somehow irresistible. It brings to mind the allegorical fox stung by the instinct-abiding scorpion while ferrying it across the river, leaving both to drown.

Corporate CEOs will shrug their shoulders and defensively say their job is to protect shareholders’ bottom-line interests.

Well that is 'their job'. That is what they, literally, get paid money for.

The shareholders, meanwhile, shrug their shoulders while defensively stating that they just collect the dividends and that the CEOs are the ones to make the moral and/or ethical decisions.

When the whole industry is involved around things, which pollute the actual air that human beings and other things, literally, 'need' to live and survive on, then when a few human beings or other animals 'die', then this does not really matter at all.

As long as some human beings are making and obtaining 'more money', then that is what really 'matters' here. This is what, and how, 'the adult human being created world' is, and worked. Well in the days when this was being written anyway.

The more that corporations make, all the more they want — nay, need — to make next quarterly. It's never enough. Maximizing profits at the expense of those with so much less, or nothing, will likely always be a significant part of the nature of the big business beast.

Still, there must be a point at which that inhumane corporate practice can/will end up hurting big business’s own monetary interests. One can imagine that many living and healthy consumers are needed.

Okay, but how, exactly, is this related to thread topic title here?