that there are ''facts'' in this current war, cannot be disputed...
but what are the undisputed ''facts''...
One: Hamas attacked Israel, and Two: Israel responded...
those are the only two ''facts'' that are undisputed....
which leads us to the subject title, Israel, Hamas AND....
what is that AND?
With each passing day, the ''facts'' become less and less sure..
and we all know that the first causality of war is the truth...
and what is the ''truth'' in this war?
to understand this ''AND" we have to switch our focus from
the war, to us.. as human beings.... and that is where our
solutions are found....
the ''AND" is really not logic and facts, those left the building a long time ago...
and it isn't rationality or being ''reasonable'' those left the building at the
same time.... so, what is left? Emotionalism, and that is what driving
the war now.... our emotional response to these matters...
''Israel must be able to defend itself?'' "Hamas must be able to defend itself''
and both answers rely on our emotions, not logic or rational thinking but
on how we feel about it...
as for me, I understand history and I realize that Israel as a state,
has been around for about 5 minutes in historical terms....
as has been Gaza and the West bank... the people, the Jews
and what we call the Palestinians have been around since the
beginning of time....and who should, SHOULD have that land,
has also been a question, since the beginning of time...
the bible is full of battles and wars fought over that land 3000
years ago.... and before there was even writing, there were wars
over that land....
and who are we to solve questions that have been around for over
3000 years?
the ''emotionalism'' we feel toward or against Israel or the Palestinians,
have been created in us by our childhood indoctrinations.... education,
if you will..... and because of the Holocaust, our indoctrination,
our education has been changed.....and it rightfully should have
changed...our failure, and it was failure, to protect the Jews
during the 20's and 30's, left us with guilt that we haven't
really overcome.... take the Jewish state away from the Jews,
leads us to recall that we allowed, did not prevent the Holocaust
from happening.... every single response today, is from a stated
or unstated response to the Holocaust... AS IT SHOULD BE....
the Holocaust was a failure of nerve from the west...
and a strong response from the west in the thirties, would
have probably stopped the Holocaust from Happening...
or at least lessen it... a strong response from the west to
the persecution of Jews, would have most likely stopped it...
until say, 1935 or 36, Germany was still in a weaken state...
and had the west said, no, no more persecution of the Jews,
in the 30's, it would have ended that....
but Kropotkin, the west had no right to interfere with internal German
politics... and therein lies the problem.... when it comes to the lives
of human beings, be it within a state, the U.S. or prewar Germany,
we have an obligation to stand with human beings....
and why, why do we have an ''obligation'' to stand with human beings?
because first and foremost, we are human beings... before being white
or Catholics, or American's, we are human beings.....
the basic foundation of our identity is human.. and then all those
other identities.. come next.... to say I am male or white or
American come after, after I identify as Human.... to separate out
people based on race, color, nationality, religion, or sexual identities
is to miss the basic point... we are, first and foremost Human...
that is the bottom line identity of who we are...... human...
and all those other identities come afterward....
to do as the conservative does, create an ''us vs them'' attitude, is to
deny us our human nature....the bottom line is we are all, all of us,
human..... and to stick to such things as ''tribes'' or nationality is silly,
because both of those are accidents of birth.... I am an American
because I just happened to be born in Minneapolis Minnesota,
born a few hundred miles north, and I am Canadian....
or being white, that is just an accident of birth....
we think of these things as being of prime importance, but
they are not... they are just accidents of birth...
The AND of the Israel Hamas war is that we are human beings
fighting other human beings.... the fact that one side claims
to be Jewish and the other side Palestinian, is a statement
of where one was born... an accident of birth...
or to be born 200 yards this side of an imaginary line,
is to be Jewish and to be born on the other side of that imaginary'
line is to be born Palestinian.... is an accident of birth...
to be born white, is an accident of birth... to be born a man,
that is an accident of birth or to be born to love only men,
is a accident of birth... to love both sexes, that is just another
accidental birth... to be born of one religion or another,
just another accidental birth....
but Kropotkin, what isn't an accidental birth? to be born is to
be born human....all the other crap is accidental....
the bottom line of being born is to be born human... all the rest,
crap...... and of all this emotionalism of being male or Jewish
or American, is just that, emotionalism...
the bottom line of existence is that we are, human beings....
the rest of it doesn't matter.... it is just an accident of birth...
Kropotkin
Israel, Hamas and......
Re: Israel, Hamas and......
You're right. From our own perspective we can choose to view ourselves as just human beings. And I suppose aliens viewing us from their saucers likely would describe us as just human beings. The reason there are wars is because other human beings (typically in groups) treat other groups of just human beings as members of a nation or religion or culture ie NOT as just human beings.