Uh oh...

[iambiguous]

Move over Ukraine, World War III may well have a new front line...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/19/opin ... -gaza.html

Israel Is About to Make a Terrible Mistake
Thomas L. Friedman

The Big Picture?

"I believe that if Israel rushes headlong into Gaza now to destroy Hamas — and does so without expressing a clear commitment to seek a two-state solution with the Palestinian Authority and end Jewish settlements deep in the West Bank — it will be making a grave mistake that will be devastating for Israeli interests and American interests.

"It could trigger a global conflagration and explode the entire pro-American alliance structure that the United States has built in the region since Henry Kissinger engineered the end of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

"I am talking about the Camp David peace treaty, the Oslo peace accords, the Abraham Accords and the possible normalization of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. The whole thing could go up in flames.

"This is not about whether Israel has the right to retaliate against Hamas for the savage barbarism it inflicted on Israeli men, women, babies and grandparents. It surely does. This is about doing it the right way — the way that does not play into the hands of Hamas, Iran and Russia.

"If Israel goes into Gaza and takes months to kill or capture every Hamas leader and soldier but does so while expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank — thereby making any two-state solution there with the more moderate Palestinian Authority impossible — there will be no legitimate Palestinian or Arab League or European or U.N. or NATO coalition that will ever be prepared to go into Gaza and take it off Israel’s hands.

"There will be no one to extract Israel and no one to help Israel pay the cost of caring for more than two million Gazans — not if Israel is run by a government that thinks, and acts, as if it can justifiably exact its revenge on Hamas while unjustifiably building an apartheidlike society run by Jewish supremacists in the West Bank. That is a completely incoherent policy.

"Alas, though, a senior U.S. official told me that the Biden team left Jerusalem feeling that while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel understands that overreach in Gaza could set the whole neighborhood ablaze, his right-wing coalition partners are eager to fan the flames in the West Bank. Settlers there have killed at least seven Palestinian civilians in acts of revenge in just the past week.

"Meanwhile, U.S. officials told me, the representatives of those settlers in the cabinet are withholding tax money owed the Palestinian Authority, making it harder for it to keep the West Bank as under control as it has been since the start of the Hamas war.

"Netanyahu should not allow this, but he has trapped himself. He needs those right-wing extremists in his coalition to keep himself out of jail on corruption charges.

"But he is going to put all of Israel into the jail of Gaza unless he breaks with those Jewish supremacists.

"Unfortunately, the senior U.S. official told me, Israeli military leaders are actually more hawkish than the prime minister now. They are red with rage and determined to deliver a blow to Hamas that the whole neighborhood will never forget.

"I understand why. But friends don’t let friends drive while enraged. Biden has to tell this Israeli government that taking over Gaza without pairing it with a totally new approach to settlements, the West Bank and a two-state solution would be a disaster for Israel and a disaster for America.

"We can help, we can even insist, that our Arab and European allies work to create a more effective, less corrupt and more legitimate Palestinian Authority in the West Bank that, after some transition in Gaza, could help govern there as well. But not without a fundamental change in Israeli policy toward the PA and the Jewish settlers.

"Otherwise, what began as a Hamas onslaught against Israel has the potential to trigger a Middle East war with every great power and regional power having a hand in it — which would make it very difficult to stop once it started.

"In the first week of this conflict, the supreme leader of Iran and Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Hezbollah militia in Lebanon, appeared to be keeping very tight control of their militiamen on the border with Israel and in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. But as the second week has gone on, U.S. officials have picked up increasing signs that both leaders are letting their forces more aggressively attack Israeli targets and that they might attack American targets if the United States intervenes. They smell the logic of how much an Israeli invasion of Gaza could help their goal of driving America out of the whole region.

"On Thursday, a U.S. Navy warship in the northern Red Sea shot down three cruise missiles and several drones, apparently launched by the pro-Iranian Houthi militia in Yemen, that might have been headed toward Israel. More missiles, likely from pro-Iranian militias, were fired at U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria.

"So many rockets are now coming from the pro-Iranian Hezbollah militia in South Lebanon that we are one degree away from a full-scale missile war between Israel and Iran’s proxies — and very possibly directly between Israel and Iran.

"Israel is not likely to let Iran use its proxies to hit Israel without eventually firing a missile directly at Tehran. Israel has missile-armed submarines that are probably in the Persian Gulf as we speak. If that gets going, it’s Katie, bar the door.

"The United States, Russia and China could all be drawn in directly or indirectly.

"What makes the situation triply dangerous is that even if Israel acts with herculean restraint to prevent civilian deaths in Gaza, it won’t matter. Think of what happened at Gaza City’s Ahli Arab Hospital on Tuesday.

"As the Israeli columnist Nahum Barnea pointed out to me, Palestinian Islamic Jihad achieved more this week with an apparently misfired rocket “than it achieved in all of its successful missile launches.”

"How so? After that rocket failed and fell on the Palestinian hospital in Gaza, killing scores of people, Hamas and Islamic Jihad rushed out and claimed — with no evidence — that Israel had deliberately bombed the hospital, setting streets ablaze across the Arab world. When Israel and the United States offered compelling evidence a few hours later that Islamic Jihad accidentally hit the Gaza hospital with its own rocket, it was already too late. The Arab street was on fire, and a meeting of Arab leaders with Biden was canceled.

"If people cannot talk openly and honestly about a misfired rocket, imagine what will happen when the first major Israeli invasion of Gaza begins in our wired world, linked by social networks and polluted with misinformation amplified by artificial intelligence.

"That is why I believe that Israel would be much better off framing any Gaza operation as “Operation Save Our Hostages” — rather than “Operation End Hamas Once and for All” — and carrying it out, if possible, with repeated surgical strikes and special forces that can still get the Hamas leadership but also draw the brightest possible line between Gazan civilians and the Hamas dictatorship.

"But if Israel feels it must reoccupy Gaza to destroy Hamas and restore its deterrence and security — I repeat — it must pair that military operation with a new commitment to pursue a two-state solution with those Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza ready to make peace with Israel.

"The hour is late. I have never written a column this urgent before because I have never been more worried about how this situation could spin out of control in ways that could damage Israel irreparably, damage U.S. interests irreparably, damage Palestinians irreparably, threaten Jews everywhere and destabilize the whole world.

"I beg Biden to tell Israelis this immediately — for their sake, for America’s sake, for the sake of Palestinians, for the sake of the world."

[promethean75]

Does anybody have any last words then? I don't... becuz

"Last words are for fools who haven't said enough!" - KM

[Impenitent]

don't worry- Israel will soon be fighting on 4 fronts- Iran can't help themselves

Bibi will push the button

the dominos will soon fall

utopia

-Imp

[Age]

Move over Ukraine, World War III may well have a new front line...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/19/opin ... -gaza.html

Israel Is About to Make a Terrible Mistake
Thomas L. Friedman

The Big Picture?

"I believe that if Israel rushes headlong into Gaza now to destroy Hamas — and does so without expressing a clear commitment to seek a two-state solution with the Palestinian Authority and end Jewish settlements deep in the West Bank — it will be making a grave mistake that will be devastating for Israeli interests and American interests.

Was it NOT CLEAR to 'this one', or 'ANY one', PREVIOUSLY, that ANY KILLING of ANY one was 'making a grave mistake'?

And, who REALLY CARES ABOUT 'the interests' of ONLY 'those two groups of 'you', human beings'?

I WONDER how MANY human beings, in 'those two groups', have ACTUALLY REALLY CONSIDERED WHY SO MANY "other" human beings on planet earth HATE 'them' SO MUCH?

"It could trigger a global conflagration and explode the entire pro-American alliance structure that the United States has built in the region since Henry Kissinger engineered the end of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

Has 'this person' even CONSIDERED that 'the ENTIRE world' would be a MUCH BETTER PLACE IF and WHEN the ENTIRE so-called 'pro-"american" alliance structure' DID EXPLODE?

If no, then 'this' could be some 'thing' to think ABOUT and ponder OVER.

"I am talking about the Camp David peace treaty, the Oslo peace accords, the Abraham Accords and the possible normalization of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. The whole thing could go up in flames.

"This is not about whether Israel has the right to retaliate against Hamas for the savage barbarism it inflicted on Israeli men, women, babies and grandparents.

WHY is the 'retaliation' AGAINST "hamas's" 'savage barbarism 'it' inflicted on "israeli" men, women, babies, and grandparents' as though 'this retaliation' could be somehow "justified" in some way, but 'we' do NOT here much about WHY the 'retaliation' AGAINST "israeli's" 'savage barbarism 'it' inflicted, and inflicts, on "palestinian" men, women, babies, and grandparents' could also be "justified" as well, AS MUCH, in some particular 'media outlets' around the world?

It surely does.

Is 'the person' who wrote 'this' of PROPER 'thinking'.

NO human being has the 'right' to 'retaliate' AGAINST "another human being".

One reason WHY a LOT OF "american people", especially, are so HATED around 'the world' is BECAUSE 'they' BELIEVE that 'they' HAVE 'a right' to RETALIATE, AGAINST "other human beings", and even AGAINST "themselves", which is even MORE LUDICROUS.

Now, it is 'this' MOST CLOSED and STUPID WAY of 'thinking' that REVENGE and/or RETALIATION AGAINST "others" IS good or 'right' WHY 'the people' have CAUSED, CREATED, and BROUGHT SO MUCH HATRED, UPON "themselves".

And, what is MORE OBVIOUS and MORE STUPID is 'thinking' that REVENGE or RETALIATION could be "justified" in ANY WAY when the 'ones' who WANT TO RETALIATE and DESTROY "other" human beings have FAR MORE or FAR BIGGER WEAPONS or POWER OVER "the other".

This is about doing it the right way — the way that does not play into the hands of Hamas, Iran and Russia.

'you' "Israelis" and/or "americans" here are now just SHOWING 'your' 'true colors', as some say, by being absolutely SCARED and AFRAID of the ACTUAL RETALIATION, which could OCCUR AGAINST 'you', if 'you' OVER STEP 'the MARK' here now.

"If Israel goes into Gaza and takes months to kill or capture every Hamas leader and soldier but does so while expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank — thereby making any two-state solution there with the more moderate Palestinian Authority impossible — there will be no legitimate Palestinian or Arab League or European or U.N. or NATO coalition that will ever be prepared to go into Gaza and take it off Israel’s hands.

"There will be no one to extract Israel and no one to help Israel pay the cost of caring for more than two million Gazans — not if Israel is run by a government that thinks, and acts, as if it can justifiably exact its revenge on Hamas while unjustifiably building an apartheidlike society run by Jewish supremacists in the West Bank. That is a completely incoherent policy.

Which could make some think that "Hitler" could have actually DOING the 'right thing'.

Or, maybe if a meteorite, for example, just WIPED OUT ALL of 'you', human beings, long before, then 'this' could have actually been the 'right and good thing'.

But then ALL of 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, could just CHANGE the Wrong that ALL of 'you' do, and then just keep CHANGING, for the BETTER, for the BETTERMENT OF ALL, ESPECIALLY the CHILDREN.

But, WHY would ANY one of 'you' WANT to DO 'this'?

"Alas, though, a senior U.S. official told me that the Biden team left Jerusalem feeling that while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel understands that overreach in Gaza could set the whole neighborhood ablaze, his right-wing coalition partners are eager to fan the flames in the West Bank. Settlers there have killed at least seven Palestinian civilians in acts of revenge in just the past week.

Of which the NUMBER OF 'now' has GROWN, CONSIDERABLY.

"Meanwhile, U.S. officials told me, the representatives of those settlers in the cabinet are withholding tax money owed the Palestinian Authority, making it harder for it to keep the West Bank as under control as it has been since the start of the Hamas war.

"Netanyahu should not allow this, but he has trapped himself. He needs those right-wing extremists in his coalition to keep himself out of jail on corruption charges.

"But he is going to put all of Israel into the jail of Gaza unless he breaks with those Jewish supremacists.

"Unfortunately, the senior U.S. official told me, Israeli military leaders are actually more hawkish than the prime minister now. They are red with rage and determined to deliver a blow to Hamas that the whole neighborhood will never forget.

"I understand why.

Does 'this one' UNDERSTAND WHY 'the people' in "gaza" or the "west bank" ARE so-called 'red with rage' and ARE 'determined' to deliver a blow to 'the people' that the whole neighborhood will never forget, AS WELL?

Or, can and does 'this person' ONLY UNDERSTAND 'things' from 'one perspective' and from "one-side"?

But friends don’t let friends drive while enraged. Biden has to tell this Israeli government that taking over Gaza without pairing it with a totally new approach to settlements, the West Bank and a two-state solution would be a disaster for Israel and a disaster for America.

Sounds like 'this one' only 'cares' 'now' because of 'the disaster of' "america", which could unfold.

"We can help, we can even insist, that our Arab and European allies work to create a more effective, less corrupt and more legitimate Palestinian Authority in the West Bank that, after some transition in Gaza, could help govern there as well. But not without a fundamental change in Israeli policy toward the PA and the Jewish settlers.

WHY do 'you', "americans", NOT 'help' "yourselves" FIRST, BEFORE 'you' even BEGIN to considering 'helping' "others"?

"Otherwise, what began as a Hamas onslaught against Israel has the potential to trigger a Middle East war with every great power and regional power having a hand in it — which would make it very difficult to stop once it started.

'This person' appears here to be SO "one-sided", and ONLY "one-side" ONLY, that if 'word war 3', for example, 'broke out', then 'this one' would BLAME the "other-side" for CREATING or STARTING 'this war'

"In the first week of this conflict,

WHEN, EXACTLY, was this 'first week' of 'this conflict', which has been going on for how MANY DECADES 'now'?

the supreme leader of Iran and Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Hezbollah militia in Lebanon, appeared to be keeping very tight control of their militiamen on the border with Israel and in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. But as the second week has gone on, U.S. officials have picked up increasing signs that both leaders are letting their forces more aggressively attack Israeli targets and that they might attack American targets if the United States intervenes. They smell the logic of how much an Israeli invasion of Gaza could help their goal of driving America out of the whole region.

And should a so-called "american" even be IN 'another region' on the OTHER side of planet earth?

Or, are there 'some people' who think or believe that "american people" are SO GOOD at 'peace keeping' that 'they' SHOULD BE 'there'?

"On Thursday, a U.S. Navy warship in the northern Red Sea shot down three cruise missiles and several drones, apparently launched by the pro-Iranian Houthi militia in Yemen, that might have been headed toward Israel.

So, "american ships" have 'shot down' what MIGHT, or MIGHT NOT, have been launched from 'one group of people', or NOT, which MIGHT, or MIGHT NOT, been headed in 'some direction', or NOT.

More missiles, likely from pro-Iranian militias, were fired at U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria.

SO WHAT?

"So many rockets are now coming from the pro-Iranian Hezbollah militia in South Lebanon that we are one degree away from a full-scale missile war between Israel and Iran’s proxies — and very possibly directly between Israel and Iran.

WHO CARES? And, WHY?

"Israel is not likely to let Iran use its proxies to hit Israel without eventually firing a missile directly at Tehran. Israel has missile-armed submarines that are probably in the Persian Gulf as we speak. If that gets going, it’s Katie, bar the door.

"The United States, Russia and China could all be drawn in directly or indirectly.

"What makes the situation triply dangerous is that even if Israel acts with herculean restraint to prevent civilian deaths in Gaza, it won’t matter. Think of what happened at Gaza City’s Ahli Arab Hospital on Tuesday.

Is there SOME 'thing' in particular, which 'this one' wants 'us' to 'think' ABOUT here, EXACTLY?

"As the Israeli columnist Nahum Barnea pointed out to me, Palestinian Islamic Jihad achieved more this week with an apparently misfired rocket “than it achieved in all of its successful missile launches.”

"How so? After that rocket failed and fell on the Palestinian hospital in Gaza, killing scores of people, Hamas and Islamic Jihad rushed out and claimed — with no evidence — that Israel had deliberately bombed the hospital, setting streets ablaze across the Arab world.

Did "americans" 'rush out' and 'claim' 'things' - with NO evidence - when a couple of little buildings were flown into?

If yes, then what IS 'the SUPPOSED difference' here, EXACTLY?

When Israel and the United States offered compelling evidence a few hours later that Islamic Jihad accidentally hit the Gaza hospital with its own rocket, it was already too late.

AND, WHEN the 'compelling evidence' was ALLOWED to come to light LATER about those two little buildings, was it already too late AS WELL? Or, was 'that situation' DIFFERENT, somehow?

If yes, then HOW, EXACTLY?

The Arab street was on fire, and a meeting of Arab leaders with Biden was canceled.

"americans" had KILLED thousands upon thousands of CHILDREN, or OBVIOUSLY ARE and WERE Truly INNOCENT, ABSOLUTELY. Or, is it better we do NOT LOOK AT and CONSIDER this Fact here?

"If people cannot talk openly and honestly about a misfired rocket, imagine what will happen when the first major Israeli invasion of Gaza begins in our wired world, linked by social networks and polluted with misinformation amplified by artificial intelligence.

In the days when this is being written, 'you', adult human beings, have ALREADY PAST THE POINT of being ABLE TO RECOGNIZE and KNOW, FOR SURE, what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY, regarding 'these things', with 'your' invent and creation of 'artificial intelligence' and with the ability of 'it' to FALSIFY the words, speech, and mannerisms of 'you', human beings.

Also, and obviously, 'your', adult human being, propensity to LOOK AT and SEE 'things' from "one-side" ONLY, ALLOWS 'you' ALL to just LIE ABOUT and FALSIFY 'things' here.

"That is why I believe that Israel would be much better off framing any Gaza operation as “Operation Save Our Hostages” — rather than “Operation End Hamas Once and for All” — and carrying it out, if possible, with repeated surgical strikes and special forces that can still get the Hamas leadership but also draw the brightest possible line between Gazan civilians and the Hamas dictatorship.

But WHO and/or WHAT is going to 'get' the "israeli" "leadership"?

Or, is ONLY "one-side" doing the Wrong 'things' here?

"But if Israel feels it must reoccupy Gaza to destroy Hamas and restore its deterrence and security — I repeat — it must pair that military operation with a new commitment to pursue a two-state solution with those Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza ready to make peace with Israel.

"The hour is late. I have never written a column this urgent before because I have never been more worried about how this situation could spin out of control in ways that could damage Israel irreparably, damage U.S. interests irreparably, damage Palestinians irreparably, threaten Jews everywhere and destabilize the whole world.

So, it appears that it is BECAUSE of 'this one's' own safety or of the damage of the country that 'it' lives in, is WHY there is ONLY 'now' some 'urgency' in A CONFLICT, which has been going on for DECADES, ALREADY.

"I beg Biden to tell Israelis this immediately — for their sake, for America’s sake, for the sake of Palestinians, for the sake of the world."

Has ANY one INFORMED 'this one' that it IS 'the way' 'this one' 'thinks' and 'looks' AT 'things' WHY 'the world' IS IN 'the ABSOLUTE mess' that 'it' IS IN, in the days when this is being written?

[iambiguous]

Of course, we won't really know for sure how this will all turn out until vegetariantaxidermy weighs in and nails it.

Unless, perhaps, Age HAS already BEATEN her TO IT?

[iambiguous]

"US warns of 'elevated risk' of war spreading in Middle East"

"Israel has 'crossed the red lines' in Gaza, which 'may force everyone to take action,' Iran's President Ebrahim Raisi said Sunday."

CNN

[Gary Childress]

"US warns of 'elevated risk' of war spreading in Middle East"

"Israel has 'crossed the red lines' in Gaza, which 'may force everyone to take action,' Iran's President Ebrahim Raisi said Sunday."

CNN

Gee, Israel. Thanks for doing us all in. I hope the "chosen" people go to heaven. What a grand place it will be, I'm sure.

[iambiguous]

Steven Lee Myers and Sheera Frenkel in the NYT

"The conflict between Israel and Hamas is fast becoming a world war online.

"Iran, Russia and, to a lesser degree, China have used state media and the world’s major social networking platforms to support Hamas and undercut Israel, while denigrating Israel’s principal ally, the United States.

"Iran’s proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq have also joined the fight online, along with extremist groups, like Al Qaeda and the Islamic State, that were previously at odds with Hamas."

Interesting?

Back in 1967 and 1973, these conflicts unfolded smack dab in the middle of what was left of the Commie/Capitalist cold war. Entire nations over there were proxies in a world where the USSR and the USA could potentially have ignited a nuclear world war. China was just getting started back then.

Today? Well, how many here believe that Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping are actually pursuing principled agendas? Or are they both basically sustaining state capitalist regimes where ultimately foreign policy [as with the U.S.] revolves around markets, natural resources and cheap labor. Really, try even to imagine the Middle East today if there were little or no oil to be found.

Now, in a less ideological world, what will it take to ignite the next world war?

"Here and now" I just don't believe what is at stake over there now is enough to push things that far. On the other hand, what do we really know about goes on inside the heads of Biden and Putin and and Xi Jinping and Ali Khamenei? The parts rooted existentially in dasein.

[Impenitent]

keep an eye on North Korea...

-Imp