Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:55 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:09 am
Gut-Bacteria exist as real as conditioned upon a human-based science-biology FSK, thus cannot exist as absolutely human-independent.
So, did they exist as mind-dependent back then in the 1500's? If so, could you give us an example of whose mind it was that they were dependent on. Was it someone living back then?
This should not require a long post to answer. It should be simple. Gut bacteria existed back then or not. Yes or no. If they existed what mind were they dependent on? If they didn't exist, how did people digest without them?
So. Yes or no. And then saying what mind they were dependent on. Very short post. Nothing about realists or problems I may nor may not have or links to other posts. Just simple answers.
So, yes or no: Just simple answers.??
It is an insult to one's intelligence to give simple answers to this 'simple-minded' question.
This is a philosophical issue which is heavily loaded which you do not have the necessary philosophical strength to carry.
You are conflating foresight with hindsight grounded on 'time' which is not absolutely mind-independent.
Thus what that follows cannot be absolutely mind-independent.
Note Skepdick's response re ontological [philosophy] time..
I have already answered the above in this post.
viewtopic.php?p=663857#p663857
You missed it or deliberately ignoring it and pretend the issue was not addressed.
Repeat:
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:30 pm
How did their digestion work?
Note this;
Two Senses of Reality
viewtopic.php?t=40265
- 1. The human-based FSR-FSK-ed sense of reality [scientific-FSK - the Standard]
2. The philosophical realism mind-independent sense of reality.
So, the answers to the questions raised above will depend on which of the above stance one is adopting.
IWP:
So, one wonders how digestion would have worked.
This a weird question without qualifications as it involved the conflation of foresight and hindsight, realism and anti-realism.
One could ask the following silly questions,
-there was no sperm then how reproduction would have worked?
-there was no humans then how humans exist at present
-there was no x then, how y would have worked.
At that time in the past, before humans could know about those bacteria, according to some of your statements they could not exist, since no one had perception of them. They were not in an FSR or FSK. So, at that time they should not have existed, according to many of your statements.
Yes, they don't exist then [> 500 years ago] and this is based on an ANTI-philosophical stance [specifically Kantian].
But note, digestion did work as evident
except then it was not understood in terms of gut-bacteria.
To ask the following question is ignorance;
IWP:
So, one wonders how digestion would have worked.
From the ANTI-Philosophical_Realist stance [Kantian], there is no wondering on how digestion worked then.
This knowledge of digestion can be deduced or inferred logically from the knowledge of the existing human-based science-FSK, thus cannot be an absolutely mind-independent fact.
It is the philosophical-realists who are bewildered with the above answers because their stance is grounded on an illusion; other types of anti-realists may also be confused from their limited grounds.
Yes, now we have these bacteria in an FSK.
Did this current knowledge retroactively lead to the existence of the gut bacteria in the past?
This current knowledge enabled the inferred-existence of gut bacteria in the past just like other similar facts [sperm, DNA, etc.].
The existence of gut bacteria then or now must always be qualified to the human-based science-biology FSK, thus, cannot be absolutely mind-independent.