My Leaders are fucking idiots. How are yours?

[Gary Childress]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... e4e9&ei=12

We gave Ukraine cluster ammo and now we're trying to excuse ourselves so we can incriminate Russia for threatening to do likewise.

[Constantine]

Russia was already using them. They never signed the treaty. Ukraine used them back in 2014 during the initial invasion. They never signed the treaty. US eliminated most of the 4% dud stock, duds below 1% now. Primary concern was over civilians picking up dids and exploding. US didn't sign the treaty either.

Ukraine uses it to dislodge Russians from trenches where there are no civilians. Russians use them on everything without regard. Ukraine and US within bounds of Just War Theory. They are using the right tool, in the tactically correct place in time. It's use isn't the WW1 tactic "The Creeping Barrage", but it comes close, as the clusters are released to clear trenches so mech infantry can storm the area.

What is stupid.... default stupid, is the wave of thoughtless Liberalism that whooshed over the signers of the treaty. The treaty violates just war theory as it requires a tactical response in the void of cluster munitions contrary to the principle of not using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. The signers presumed they would have air superiority enough to get around this. Biden the strategic mastermind has intentionally withheld in the 16 months prior to the Ukrainian spring counter offensive to provide F-16s. It takes 16 months to train a pilot. If we had not provided the cluster munitions, it be human wave tactics. Ukraine, unlike Russia, hasn't had to unleash a flood of human flesh to get mowed down. Why? Because leaders in the past existed smart and humane enough not to sign Crack head fake as shit treaties. Philosophers and statesmen should learn strategy and historical tactics before they start signing and defending bad treaties. Cluster munitions work, they work well. It would be a war crime not to use them considering the alternatives available. No aircraft means trenches still have to be cleared. Nothing morally wrong with using the right tool correctly in defense on your own national terrain. If you don't like that, don't vote for Biden. He withheld the aircraft but supported the attritional ground war. So cluster munitions it is.... unless you can come up with some genius new tactic the Ukrainians can use.

[Constantine]

This is the wiki page for creeping barrage, scroll down to WW1 for the creeping barrage discussion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_(artillery)

As a former infantryman, I'd like to know your opinion on how you are going to dislodge me from a trench you intend to assault without airpower, cluster munitions or chemical or biological weapons that doesn't violate Just War Theory.

Biden said no aircraft. I say best of luck clearing me out with normal artillery. You sure won't storm and dislodge me, I'll shoot you dead. That leaves WMD. Cluster munitions are quite legal, lethal and capable. They can kill me, allowing you to walk in and take my position. For the liberation of your homeland from a nazi, genocidal enemy. That's all you gotta do, is use the correct weapon. Aircraft, or Cluster Munitions. Don't like it, vote for someone other than Biden, cause Ukraine could of had air superiority by now. Aircraft can clear a trench. Especially modern munitions. Don't channel Chomsky, channel Clausewitz. You want to live, not die on some idiotic liberal sword in ignorance.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Russia was already using them. They never signed the treaty. Ukraine used them back in 2014 during the initial invasion. They never signed the treaty. US eliminated most of the 4% dud stock, duds below 1% now. Primary concern was over civilians picking up dids and exploding. US didn't sign the treaty either.

Ukraine uses it to dislodge Russians from trenches where there are no civilians. Russians use them on everything without regard. Ukraine and US within bounds of Just War Theory. They are using the right tool, in the tactically correct place in time. It's use isn't the WW1 tactic "The Creeping Barrage", but it comes close, as the clusters are released to clear trenches so mech infantry can storm the area.

What is stupid.... default stupid, is the wave of thoughtless Liberalism that whooshed over the signers of the treaty. The treaty violates just war theory as it requires a tactical response in the void of cluster munitions contrary to the principle of not using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. The signers presumed they would have air superiority enough to get around this. Biden the strategic mastermind has intentionally withheld in the 16 months prior to the Ukrainian spring counter offensive to provide F-16s. It takes 16 months to train a pilot. If we had not provided the cluster munitions, it be human wave tactics. Ukraine, unlike Russia, hasn't had to unleash a flood of human flesh to get mowed down. Why? Because leaders in the past existed smart and humane enough not to sign Crack head fake as shit treaties. Philosophers and statesmen should learn strategy and historical tactics before they start signing and defending bad treaties. Cluster munitions work, they work well. It would be a war crime not to use them considering the alternatives available. No aircraft means trenches still have to be cleared. Nothing morally wrong with using the right tool correctly in defense on your own national terrain. If you don't like that, don't vote for Biden. He withheld the aircraft but supported the attritional ground war. So cluster munitions it is.... unless you can come up with some genius new tactic the Ukrainians can use.

Why I hate humankind.

[Constantine]

And incase anyone is operating in a information void on Just War Theory, start with the wiki (dont bitch about wikipedia, just read the F'in wiki):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory

I've read many books on the subject. Read up on it before justbrandomly agreeing with any crackhead treaty. There are valid scenarios, such as Ukraine, where air power is lacking, in which to rightfully use them. Default yes, fact. Europeans going cross-eyed over it doesn't count. They did wrong. They should of had a larger societal discussion between military generals and their politicians and ethical philosophers. Had they done so, they wouldn't of signed such a bad treaty. Hopefully we see nations leave the treaty and use more modern methods to further reduce dud rates, label every munition. I'm also okay with encrypted radio deactivation like with landmines used by the west.

[Gary Childress]

And incase anyone is operating in a information void on Just War Theory, start with the wiki (dont bitch about wikipedia, just read the F'in wiki):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory

I've read many books on the subject. Read up on it before justbrandomly agreeing with any crackhead treaty. There are valid scenarios, such as Ukraine, where air power is lacking, in which to rightfully use them. Default yes, fact. Europeans going cross-eyed over it doesn't count. They did wrong. They should of had a larger societal discussion between military generals and their politicians and ethical philosophers. Had they done so, they wouldn't of signed such a bad treaty. Hopefully we see nations leave the treaty and use more modern methods to further reduce dud rates, label every munition. I'm also okay with encrypted radio deactivation like with landmines used by the west.

How do you "deactivate" explosives in the ground without removing the explosives? They're still packed with stuff that can explode indiscriminately on people who happen to be unlucky when they come across them in the wrong way, aren't they?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

And incase anyone is operating in a information void on Just War Theory, start with the wiki (dont bitch about wikipedia, just read the F'in wiki):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory

I've read many books on the subject.

I bet you have, you warmongering piece of shit.

[Gary Childress]

And incase anyone is operating in a information void on Just War Theory, start with the wiki (dont bitch about wikipedia, just read the F'in wiki):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory

I've read many books on the subject.

I bet you have, you warmongering piece of shit.

He can't seem to figure out what is dangerous about leaving potentially explosive materials in the ground as long as you "deactivate" them. He's every defense contractor's wet dream. Is he "intellectually challenged or "morally deficient" (to use "politically correct" terminology). Which excuse is he going to go for--ignorance or blatant immorality?