another problem of evil

[Harbal]

which is how some people seem to think "evil" works".

Okay. But I MUCH PREFER to just concentrate on and LOOK AT and DISCUSS what people ACTUALLY KNOW, FOR SURE, ABOUT what ACTUALLY HAPPENS and TAKES PLACE, RATHER THAN LOOKING AT and DISCUSSING what people THINK might be the case. This is BECAUSE EVERY one of 'you', people, have VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT what MIGHT happen AND what MIGHT take place.

DISCOVER what the 'evil' words refers to, EXACTLY, and then, and ONLY THEN, we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS HOW 'evil' ACTUALLY WORKS.

But it's relevant, because it probably goes back to the original meaning of the word. The word "evil" has religious connotations, and the original concept, I suspect, comes from religion, and I think it was part of religious doctrine that evil really was an existent entity whose purpose was to undermine God and screw things up for mankind. Quite a lot of people still seem to think of evil that way, which would make them correct about what "evil" refers to. Now, if that is what evil is supposed to be, I don't believe there is such a thing. "Evil", like "God", is probably a name for something that doesn't exist.

If any etymologists or religious experts among us want to come and tell me that all that is a load of rubbish, I won't argue with them, because it might be.

[Age]

All I know is that the war in Ukraine must stop.

Is 'this', REALLY, ALL you KNOW?

All sides need to agree to a ceasefire.

But there are NO ACTUAL "sides".

"Sides" are ONLY CREATED when 'you', human beings, DECIDE TO CHOOSE A "side".

For example, there are NO ACTUAL "sides" to Nature/Nurture, Creation/Evolution, NOR ANY 'thing' "ELSE". There is ONLY One Life, One Existence, One Universe, One Truth, AND One Reality, and ONLY WHEN one learns, and/or uncovers, and UNDERSTANDS HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then UNTIL THEN 'you', people, WILL CONTINUE to LOOK AT and SEE the One and ONLY 'Thing', FROM "sides", or FROM DIFFERENT perspectives. Thus, continuing to CAUSE and CREATE the arguing, bickering, fighting, warring, AND KILLING, which 'you', adult human beings, are OBVIOUSLY DOING, IN the days when this WAS being written.

I could NOT and WOULD NOT 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' properly AND correctly, nor 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO DO what IS Right, and GOOD, in Life, IF NONE of 'you' were PREPARED TO YET.

HOWEVER, for ANY one who IS Truly INTERESTED IN LEARNING ANY of these 'things', then I am MORE than READY and WILLING to BEGIN.

Concessions need to be made by the US and by Russia toward each other's interests. The war in Ukraine is becoming a torrent of evil that is spreading throughout the world. Putin needs to given some ground and he needs to accept that ground and negotiations must resume or not. Putin has deliberately brought evil into the world. I know not why but I believe it is because he does not trust the Chinese. I don't trust the Chinese leadership either. They will not share information with others and they will not open their doors for others to see what they are doing and why they are doing it. There must be more transparency among nations between each other, lest there be wars and strife. We do not know where Covid 19 came from. We do not know what it is or why it was. We must find out from China. If they do not wish to open their doors, then we must allow them to visit us to find out what is going on, even if it means allowing some of their surveillance balloons in. But their surveillance balloons also pose a risk to civilian aviation which is an issue also. The Chinese are afraid of what we do because of our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. We most atone for those things somehow. Atonement is perhaps being made in ways I am as yet unaware of but they must not be evil ways of atonement. They must be humane, civil, diplomatic and cooperative ways.

Here we can SEE WHY warring CONTINUED.

This one here STILL SEES 'the world' AS: "us" AND "them", and it WAS for as long as 'they', BACK THEN, CHOSE to LOOK AT human beings AS: "us" AND "them", 'they' CONTINUED to argue, bicker, fight, war, AND KILL "each other".

I really must protest, Age, none of the above words attributed to me are mine.

MY APOLOGIES, and corrected now.

[Age]

which is how some people seem to think "evil" works".

Okay. But I MUCH PREFER to just concentrate on and LOOK AT and DISCUSS what people ACTUALLY KNOW, FOR SURE, ABOUT what ACTUALLY HAPPENS and TAKES PLACE, RATHER THAN LOOKING AT and DISCUSSING what people THINK might be the case. This is BECAUSE EVERY one of 'you', people, have VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT what MIGHT happen AND what MIGHT take place.

DISCOVER what the 'evil' words refers to, EXACTLY, and then, and ONLY THEN, we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS HOW 'evil' ACTUALLY WORKS.

But it's relevant, because it probably goes back to the original meaning of the word.

But 'what', EXACTLY, is, supposedly, 'relevant' here?

Or, in other words, what does the 'it' word REFER TO, EXACTLY, in your sentence here?

The word "evil" has religious connotations, and the original concept, I suspect, comes from religion, and I think it was part of religious doctrine that evil really was an existent entity whose purpose was to undermine God and screw things up for mankind.

Which IS, and WAS in the days when this was being written, EXACTLY what happened hitherto, to the day that this was written.

As I just EXPLAINED, EXACTLY, HOW 'an entity' can be SEEN here, which OPPOSES GOOD, and/or God, Itself.

Quite a lot of people still seem to think of evil that way, which would make them correct about what "evil" refers to. Now, if that is what evil is supposed to be, I don't believe there is such a thing.

Okay and fair enough. BUT, let us NOT FORGET that WHILE you MAINTAIN 'that BELIEVE' then you are NOT OPEN ENOUGH to SEE ANY 'thing' OPPOSING 'that BELIEF'.

"Evil", like "God", is probably a name for something that doesn't exist.

TO 'you', Correct?

If yes, then WHILE 'they' PROBABLY do NOT exist, TO 'you', then 'you' WILL BE FAR MORE INCLINED TO MISS OUT on what CAN BE SEEN, and KNOWN, to BE IRREFUTABLY True, Right, Accurate, AND Correct.

If any etymologists or religious experts among us want to come and tell me that all that is a load of rubbish, I won't argue with them, because it might be.

1. The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong DOING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY adult human beings DO. OBVIOUSLY, NO OTHER 'animal' can NOR could DO Wrong.

2. The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong THINKING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, then LEADS TO the Wrong DOING, by adult human beings.

3. The word 'evil' could be REFERRING TO BOTH 1. and 2.

The word 'evil' backwards is 'live' and the word 'lived' backwards is 'devil'.

Now;

A species, which KNOWS Right FROM Wrong, and GOOD FROM BAD, could NOT 'live' forever IF 'it' KEPT DOING 'evil'.

And,

The adults of a species, which KNEW Right FROM Wrong, and GOOD FROM BAD, but continued to DO Wrong, 'lived' for a particular period were identified as the 'devil'.

But ONCE that 'one' CHANGED the Wrong and BAD thinking and behavior, then 'it' evolved INTO some 'Thing' MUCH BIGGER and MUCH BETTER, namely God-like. Which IS who and what 'Life', Itself, has been CONTINUALLY evolving INTO and TO 'live'-like, FOREVER MORE.

[Harbal]

But 'what', EXACTLY, is, supposedly, 'relevant' here?

Or, in other words, what does the 'it' word REFER TO, EXACTLY, in your sentence here?

My reference to what some people seem to think evil is.

Quite a lot of people still seem to think of evil that way, which would make them correct about what "evil" refers to. Now, if that is what evil is supposed to be, I don't believe there is such a thing.

Okay and fair enough. BUT, let us NOT FORGET that WHILE you MAINTAIN 'that BELIEVE' then you are NOT OPEN ENOUGH to SEE ANY 'thing' OPPOSING 'that BELIEF'.

No, that isn't the case. Given a compelling argument, I could possibly be convinced otherwise, but it is true that this particular belief -or, rather, disbelief) is quite firm.

1. The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong DOING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY adult human beings DO. OBVIOUSLY, NO OTHER 'animal' can NOR could DO Wrong.

"Wrong doing" is a relative term here, and only means wrong in the eyes, or opinion, of others. I'm not sure that I agree that no other animal could do this kind of wrong. There are many species of social animal, and they have their social codes of behaviour. I can't think of an example, but I'm sure I have seen documentaries where individuals break the rules for personal advantage, and at the expense of other group members. If the group reacts negatively to one of its members breaking the rules, that member has surely done wrong, just as a human being is considered to have done wrong when he breaks the rules to the cost of others.

The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong THINKING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, then LEADS TO the Wrong DOING, by adult human beings.

Again, when you use the word "wrong", it is only wrong in relation to a particular set of arbitrary rules. I'm not sure that is relevent, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

The word 'evil' backwards is 'live' and the word 'lived' backwards is 'devil'.

Yes, I have seen that pointed out quite a few times before, as if there is some significance to it.

A species, which KNOWS Right FROM Wrong, and GOOD FROM BAD, could NOT 'live' forever IF 'it' KEPT DOING 'evil'.

You keep using these subjective terms of "right", "wrong", "good" and "bad" as if they have a meaning beyond being the personal points of view among human beings. That's your prerogative, of course, but it just makes what you say look like personal preference.

As for living forever, nothing lives forever, and it seems unrealistic to think that it could.

But ONCE that 'one' CHANGED the Wrong and BAD thinking and behavior, then 'it' evolved INTO some 'Thing' MUCH BIGGER and MUCH BETTER, namely God-like. Which IS who and what 'Life', Itself, has been CONTINUALLY evolving INTO and TO 'live'-like, FOREVER MORE.

That looks like some sort of teleology, as if there were a predetermined goal for humanity, which is something else I have no belief in. I think you have an unrealistic idea of what human beings could be, which is hard to understand in view of all the evidence we have about what they actually are.

[Sculptor]

What do you MEAN by 'No', 'none of them' 'were caused by people'?

What, EXACTLY, were you ASSUMING I was MEANING here?

And, WHO ELSE CAUSED the LACK OF UNCLEAN WATER IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings? And/or WHO ELSE is PREVENTED and/or STOPPED the SUFFICIENT SUPPLY of CLEAN WATER to those DEAD' children IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings?

An omnipotent, omniscient god is the cause of everything.

This IS ANOTHER GREAT example of the ABSOLUTE ABSURD and STUPID WAY in which these people would speak, back in the days when this was being written.

This one BELIEVES, ABSOLUTELY, that there is ABSOLUTELY NO so-called 'omnipotent, omniscient god' YET when I CHALLENGE and QUESTION this one ABOUT the CLAIMS it makes, 'it' ACTUALLY SAYS and WRITES that the NONEXISTENT 'omnipotent, omniscient god' CAUSED what 'it' CLAIMS is true.

AFTER I POINT OUT, by ALLUDING to the ACTUAL Fact that it was was 'you', ADULT HUMAN BEINGS, who ACTUALLY CREATED 'the situation', which CAUSED the ACTUAL DEATH of 'those children', then INSTEAD of taking absolutely ANY RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL, this one DID what ALL adult human beings DID, back in those OLDEN DAYS, which was to BLAME some OTHER 'thing' or some OTHER 'one' rather than LOOK AT the ACTUAL Truth.

From the ACTUAL examples provided here there is NOW NO wonder AT ALL WHY it took those people, back then, SO LONG to FIND OUT, SEE, and UNDERSTAND what the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth of 'things' WERE. They WERE just SO Dishonest, back then.

As I have been POINTING OUT and SHOWING here, the 'love of money' is NOT the 'root of evil' and that the ACTUAL 'root' of ALL 'evil' WAS: Dishonesty.

Still shouting hysterically?

[promethean75]

Age is a low-budget Rainman or a GPT-2 I'm guessing. Can't guess the age tho (a pun?) and i wouldn't aks becuz that's rude.

[Dontaskme]

As I have been POINTING OUT and SHOWING here, the 'love of money' is NOT the 'root of evil' and that the ACTUAL 'root' of ALL 'evil' WAS: Dishonesty.

Still shouting hysterically?

Still unable to ignore the people on your ignore list.

[Age]

But 'what', EXACTLY, is, supposedly, 'relevant' here?

Or, in other words, what does the 'it' word REFER TO, EXACTLY, in your sentence here?

My reference to what some people seem to think evil is.

But HOW would ANY one, 'now', KNOW what the ORIGINAL meaning of the 'evil' word WAS.

For example, WHEN DID the 'evil' word even come into Existence.

Quite a lot of people still seem to think of evil that way, which would make them correct about what "evil" refers to. Now, if that is what evil is supposed to be, I don't believe there is such a thing.

Okay and fair enough. BUT, let us NOT FORGET that WHILE you MAINTAIN 'that BELIEVE' then you are NOT OPEN ENOUGH to SEE ANY 'thing' OPPOSING 'that BELIEF'.

No, that isn't the case.

So, are you SAYING and CLAIMING here that AT THE EXACT SAME TIME WHILE you BELIEVE some 'thing' to be true you are ALSO BELIEVING and/or OPEN to that 'thing' NOT ACTUALLY being true AT ALL?

Given a compelling argument, I could possibly be convinced otherwise, but it is true that this particular belief -or, rather, disbelief) is quite firm.

So, and IF you COULD BE 'convinced' otherwise, THEN WHEN at the ACTUAL TIME and MOMENT that you HAVE BEEN 'convinced' otherwise, and afterwards, are you STILL BELIEVING in what you WERE, PREVIOUSLY?

If yes, then HOW, EXACTLY?

But if no, then is this ANY DIFFERENT from what I have ACTUALLY been SAYING and CLAIMING here?

Also, and by the way, if a sound AND valid argument WAS PRESENTED, and thus GIVEN, then NO 'convincing' would be needed, as you could NOT REFUTE NOR DISAGREE WITH 'that argument' anyway, and so you would just HAVE TO ACCEPT 'it' AS WELL, while just LETTING GO of your PREVIOUS BELIEF on what was ACTUALLY False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect all along anyway.

1. The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong DOING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY adult human beings DO. OBVIOUSLY, NO OTHER 'animal' can NOR could DO Wrong.

"Wrong doing" is a relative term here,

OF COURSE. AND what is 'Wrong doing' to EVERY one is ALSO a relative AND objective term, if ANY one is Truly INTERESTED.

and only means wrong in the eyes, or opinion, of others.

OR, EVERY one, as One.

I'm not sure that I agree that no other animal could do this kind of wrong.

What 'kind' 'of wrong'?

And, do you have ANY examples of non human animals DOING Wrong, of ANY 'kind'?

If yes, then WILL you SHARE 'them'?

There are many species of social animal, and they have their social codes of behaviour.

Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE of 'this'?

If yes, then what are some of 'those codes', and, are 'those codes' BASED UPON Right and/or Wrong, EXACTLY, or on some OTHER 'thing', INSTEAD?

I can't think of an example, but I'm sure I have seen documentaries where individuals break the rules for personal advantage, and at the expense of other group members.

Okay, but was this what ACTUALLY EXACTLY HAPPENED, or was 'what happened' TOLD, TO you, by "ANOTHER" human being/s who may have be just anthropomorphizing 'things' here?

If the group reacts negatively to one of its members breaking the rules, that member has surely done wrong, just as a human being is considered to have done wrong when he breaks the rules to the cost of others.

Okay, but this is just more or less defining when 'one' KNOWS Right FROM Wrong, but WITHOUT ANY ACTUAL examples we have absolutely NOTHING to LOOK AT and DISCUSS here.

The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong THINKING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, then LEADS TO the Wrong DOING, by adult human beings.

Again, when you use the word "wrong", it is only wrong in relation to a particular set of arbitrary rules.

OF COURSE. AND, WHEN I USE the 'wrong' word WITH a capital 'W', THEN I MEAN and REFER TO what is, ARBITRARY, 'Wrong' to EVERY one, and, WHEN I USE the 'wrong' word with a small 'w', THEN I MEAN and REFER TO what is, ARBITRARY, 'wrong' to SOME. Or, in other words, the word 'Wrong' REFERS TO 'that' what EVERY one AGREES WITH and ACCEPTS as BEING WRONG, and, the word 'wrong' REFERS TO 'that' what SOME AGREE WITH and ACCEPT as BEING WRONG.

I'm not sure that is relevent, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Okay.

The word 'evil' backwards is 'live' and the word 'lived' backwards is 'devil'.

Yes, I have seen that pointed out quite a few times before, as if there is some significance to it.

It is this KIND OF ATTITUDE WHY 'you', human beings, have TAKEN SO LONG to LEARN and DISCOVER what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

A species, which KNOWS Right FROM Wrong, and GOOD FROM BAD, could NOT 'live' forever IF 'it' KEPT DOING 'evil'.

You keep using these subjective terms of "right", "wrong", "good" and "bad"

Name A 'term' or 'word' and/or the meaning or definition of that 'term' or 'word', which is NOT 'subjective'.

as if they have a meaning beyond being the personal points of view among human beings.

OF COURSE 'they' ARE ALL the so-called 'person points of views among 'you', human beings.

AND, let us NOT FORGET that it IS 'you' who somewhat think or BELIEVE that non human animals have their OWN, COLLECTIVE, and alluding to OBJECTIVE 'social code of behavior', AS WELL AS ALSO somewhat being OPEN to non human animals being able to DO 'this kind of wrong'. (Whatever 'kind of wrong' you are, subjectively, talking ABOUT here.

you are speaking here like human beings can NOT have an OBJECTIVELY KNOWING of Right AND Wrong, but OTHER animals CAN and ACTUALLY COULD DO 'wrong'.

That's your prerogative, of course, but it just makes what you say look like personal preference.

So what?

What EVERY one SAYS, looks like their PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

As for living forever, nothing lives forever, and it seems unrealistic to think that it could.

ONCE AGAIN, COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISSING the POINT, BECAUSE what I SAY and WRITE is BEING LOOKED AT and HEARD from one's OWN PERSONAL VIEWS, PREFERENCES, BELIEFS, and/or ASSUMPTIONS.

Thus, WHY MISUNDERSTANDING, BICKERING, FIGHTING, AND even KILLING was VERY PREVALENT, BACK in the days when this was being written.

These people BELIEVED SO STRONGLY that they ACTUALLY BELIEVED that what they BELIEVE WAS TRUE was ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY TRUE. As, ONCE AGAIN, SHOWN and PROVED True just here, in what this one WROTE and SAID here.

But ONCE that 'one' CHANGED the Wrong and BAD thinking and behavior, then 'it' evolved INTO some 'Thing' MUCH BIGGER and MUCH BETTER, namely God-like. Which IS who and what 'Life', Itself, has been CONTINUALLY evolving INTO and TO 'live'-like, FOREVER MORE.

That looks like some sort of teleology, as if there were a predetermined goal for humanity, which is something else I have no belief in.

AND HERE WE ARE ONCE AGAIN, and ONCE MORE.

This one here BEING STUCK, SOLID, in 'its' OWN PREFERRED BELIEFS.

Are you EVEN AWARE that your OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCES and VIEWS OF 'the world', OBVIOUSLY, do NOT necessarily ALIGN WITH what IS ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True, AT ALL?

I think you have an unrealistic idea of what human beings could be,

LOL
LOL
LOL

SO, to you, WHAT COULD 'human beings' ACTUALLY BE, EXACTLY?

AND, what do you even think IS MY IDEA of what 'human beings' COULD ACTUALLY BE, ANYWAY?

I would NOT be AT ALL SURPRISED if even 'this' is STILL COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISUNDERSTOOD, BY you.

which is hard to understand in view of all the evidence we have about what they actually are.

LOL

1. WHAT, EXACTLY, IS ALL, or even ANY, of 'the evidence' that 'you', human beings, HAVE ABOUT WHAT 'you', human beings, ACTUALLY ARE?

2. WHY are 'you' calling 'human beings' here, 'they' FOR?

[Age]

An omnipotent, omniscient god is the cause of everything.

This IS ANOTHER GREAT example of the ABSOLUTE ABSURD and STUPID WAY in which these people would speak, back in the days when this was being written.

This one BELIEVES, ABSOLUTELY, that there is ABSOLUTELY NO so-called 'omnipotent, omniscient god' YET when I CHALLENGE and QUESTION this one ABOUT the CLAIMS it makes, 'it' ACTUALLY SAYS and WRITES that the NONEXISTENT 'omnipotent, omniscient god' CAUSED what 'it' CLAIMS is true.

AFTER I POINT OUT, by ALLUDING to the ACTUAL Fact that it was was 'you', ADULT HUMAN BEINGS, who ACTUALLY CREATED 'the situation', which CAUSED the ACTUAL DEATH of 'those children', then INSTEAD of taking absolutely ANY RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL, this one DID what ALL adult human beings DID, back in those OLDEN DAYS, which was to BLAME some OTHER 'thing' or some OTHER 'one' rather than LOOK AT the ACTUAL Truth.

From the ACTUAL examples provided here there is NOW NO wonder AT ALL WHY it took those people, back then, SO LONG to FIND OUT, SEE, and UNDERSTAND what the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth of 'things' WERE. They WERE just SO Dishonest, back then.

As I have been POINTING OUT and SHOWING here, the 'love of money' is NOT the 'root of evil' and that the ACTUAL 'root' of ALL 'evil' WAS: Dishonesty.

Still shouting hysterically?

LOL NO, and NEVER HAVE here.

This is just FURTHER PROOF of just HOW LITTLE these ones would LISTEN and HEAR, BACK in the days when this WAS being written. And, LOL, EVEN WHEN what was BEING SAID, was being WRITTEN DOWN in VERY CLEARLY PRINTED OUT WORDS.

What is ALSO VERY CLEAR here is that what you SAID and CLAIMED could NOT be MORE False and MORE Wrong, even if one WANTED 'it' TO BE.

But which you do NOT WANT TO ADMIT and WILL just CONTINUE TO 'TRY TO' DISTRACT AWAY FROM, right?

[Age]

As I have been POINTING OUT and SHOWING here, the 'love of money' is NOT the 'root of evil' and that the ACTUAL 'root' of ALL 'evil' WAS: Dishonesty.

Still shouting hysterically?

Still unable to ignore the people on your ignore list.

GREAT OBSERVATION, and one I COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISSED here.

[Gary Childress]

All I know is that the war in Ukraine must stop.

Is 'this', REALLY, ALL you KNOW?

All sides need to agree to a ceasefire.

But there are NO ACTUAL "sides".

"Sides" are ONLY CREATED when 'you', human beings, DECIDE TO CHOOSE A "side".

For example, there are NO ACTUAL "sides" to Nature/Nurture, Creation/Evolution, NOR ANY 'thing' "ELSE". There is ONLY One Life, One Existence, One Universe, One Truth, AND One Reality, and ONLY WHEN one learns, and/or uncovers, and UNDERSTANDS HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then UNTIL THEN 'you', people, WILL CONTINUE to LOOK AT and SEE the One and ONLY 'Thing', FROM "sides", or FROM DIFFERENT perspectives. Thus, continuing to CAUSE and CREATE the arguing, bickering, fighting, warring, AND KILLING, which 'you', adult human beings, are OBVIOUSLY DOING, IN the days when this WAS being written.

I could NOT and WOULD NOT 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' properly AND correctly, nor 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO DO what IS Right, and GOOD, in Life, IF NONE of 'you' were PREPARED TO YET.

HOWEVER, for ANY one who IS Truly INTERESTED IN LEARNING ANY of these 'things', then I am MORE than READY and WILLING to BEGIN.

Concessions need to be made by the US and by Russia toward each other's interests. The war in Ukraine is becoming a torrent of evil that is spreading throughout the world. Putin needs to given some ground and he needs to accept that ground and negotiations must resume or not. Putin has deliberately brought evil into the world. I know not why but I believe it is because he does not trust the Chinese. I don't trust the Chinese leadership either. They will not share information with others and they will not open their doors for others to see what they are doing and why they are doing it. There must be more transparency among nations between each other, lest there be wars and strife. We do not know where Covid 19 came from. We do not know what it is or why it was. We must find out from China. If they do not wish to open their doors, then we must allow them to visit us to find out what is going on, even if it means allowing some of their surveillance balloons in. But their surveillance balloons also pose a risk to civilian aviation which is an issue also. The Chinese are afraid of what we do because of our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. We most atone for those things somehow. Atonement is perhaps being made in ways I am as yet unaware of but they must not be evil ways of atonement. They must be humane, civil, diplomatic and cooperative ways.

Here we can SEE WHY warring CONTINUED.

This one here STILL SEES 'the world' AS: "us" AND "them", and it WAS for as long as 'they', BACK THEN, CHOSE to LOOK AT human beings AS: "us" AND "them", 'they' CONTINUED to argue, bicker, fight, war, AND KILL "each other".

I really must protest, Age, none of the above words attributed to me are mine.

It is true what Harbal says. Those words were from one of my posts. Someone must be hacking the forum and doing evil. This has happened at least twice that I have seen so far. My words are being misattributed or else used in other posts. This is deceit and malice. This is not truth. Someone is doing evil, lying, obfuscating, and hiding the real truth from others here, irrespective of who they harm or discredit. That is evil.

[Harbal]

But 'what', EXACTLY, is, supposedly, 'relevant' here?

Or, in other words, what does the 'it' word REFER TO, EXACTLY, in your sentence here?

My reference to what some people seem to think evil is.

But HOW would ANY one, 'now', KNOW what the ORIGINAL meaning of the 'evil' word WAS.

For example, WHEN DID the 'evil' word even come into Existence.

Okay and fair enough. BUT, let us NOT FORGET that WHILE you MAINTAIN 'that BELIEVE' then you are NOT OPEN ENOUGH to SEE ANY 'thing' OPPOSING 'that BELIEF'.

No, that isn't the case.

So, are you SAYING and CLAIMING here that AT THE EXACT SAME TIME WHILE you BELIEVE some 'thing' to be true you are ALSO BELIEVING and/or OPEN to that 'thing' NOT ACTUALLY being true AT ALL?

Given a compelling argument, I could possibly be convinced otherwise, but it is true that this particular belief -or, rather, disbelief) is quite firm.

So, and IF you COULD BE 'convinced' otherwise, THEN WHEN at the ACTUAL TIME and MOMENT that you HAVE BEEN 'convinced' otherwise, and afterwards, are you STILL BELIEVING in what you WERE, PREVIOUSLY?

If yes, then HOW, EXACTLY?

But if no, then is this ANY DIFFERENT from what I have ACTUALLY been SAYING and CLAIMING here?

Also, and by the way, if a sound AND valid argument WAS PRESENTED, and thus GIVEN, then NO 'convincing' would be needed, as you could NOT REFUTE NOR DISAGREE WITH 'that argument' anyway, and so you would just HAVE TO ACCEPT 'it' AS WELL, while just LETTING GO of your PREVIOUS BELIEF on what was ACTUALLY False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect all along anyway.

1. The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong DOING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, ONLY adult human beings DO. OBVIOUSLY, NO OTHER 'animal' can NOR could DO Wrong.

"Wrong doing" is a relative term here,

OF COURSE. AND what is 'Wrong doing' to EVERY one is ALSO a relative AND objective term, if ANY one is Truly INTERESTED.

and only means wrong in the eyes, or opinion, of others.

OR, EVERY one, as One.

I'm not sure that I agree that no other animal could do this kind of wrong.

What 'kind' 'of wrong'?

And, do you have ANY examples of non human animals DOING Wrong, of ANY 'kind'?

If yes, then WILL you SHARE 'them'?

There are many species of social animal, and they have their social codes of behaviour.

Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE of 'this'?

If yes, then what are some of 'those codes', and, are 'those codes' BASED UPON Right and/or Wrong, EXACTLY, or on some OTHER 'thing', INSTEAD?

I can't think of an example, but I'm sure I have seen documentaries where individuals break the rules for personal advantage, and at the expense of other group members.

Okay, but was this what ACTUALLY EXACTLY HAPPENED, or was 'what happened' TOLD, TO you, by "ANOTHER" human being/s who may have be just anthropomorphizing 'things' here?

If the group reacts negatively to one of its members breaking the rules, that member has surely done wrong, just as a human being is considered to have done wrong when he breaks the rules to the cost of others.

Okay, but this is just more or less defining when 'one' KNOWS Right FROM Wrong, but WITHOUT ANY ACTUAL examples we have absolutely NOTHING to LOOK AT and DISCUSS here.

The word 'evil' can just refer to the Wrong THINKING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, then LEADS TO the Wrong DOING, by adult human beings.

Again, when you use the word "wrong", it is only wrong in relation to a particular set of arbitrary rules.

OF COURSE. AND, WHEN I USE the 'wrong' word WITH a capital 'W', THEN I MEAN and REFER TO what is, ARBITRARY, 'Wrong' to EVERY one, and, WHEN I USE the 'wrong' word with a small 'w', THEN I MEAN and REFER TO what is, ARBITRARY, 'wrong' to SOME. Or, in other words, the word 'Wrong' REFERS TO 'that' what EVERY one AGREES WITH and ACCEPTS as BEING WRONG, and, the word 'wrong' REFERS TO 'that' what SOME AGREE WITH and ACCEPT as BEING WRONG.

I'm not sure that is relevent, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Okay.

The word 'evil' backwards is 'live' and the word 'lived' backwards is 'devil'.

Yes, I have seen that pointed out quite a few times before, as if there is some significance to it.

It is this KIND OF ATTITUDE WHY 'you', human beings, have TAKEN SO LONG to LEARN and DISCOVER what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

A species, which KNOWS Right FROM Wrong, and GOOD FROM BAD, could NOT 'live' forever IF 'it' KEPT DOING 'evil'.

You keep using these subjective terms of "right", "wrong", "good" and "bad"

Name A 'term' or 'word' and/or the meaning or definition of that 'term' or 'word', which is NOT 'subjective'.

as if they have a meaning beyond being the personal points of view among human beings.

OF COURSE 'they' ARE ALL the so-called 'person points of views among 'you', human beings.

AND, let us NOT FORGET that it IS 'you' who somewhat think or BELIEVE that non human animals have their OWN, COLLECTIVE, and alluding to OBJECTIVE 'social code of behavior', AS WELL AS ALSO somewhat being OPEN to non human animals being able to DO 'this kind of wrong'. (Whatever 'kind of wrong' you are, subjectively, talking ABOUT here.

you are speaking here like human beings can NOT have an OBJECTIVELY KNOWING of Right AND Wrong, but OTHER animals CAN and ACTUALLY COULD DO 'wrong'.

That's your prerogative, of course, but it just makes what you say look like personal preference.

So what?

What EVERY one SAYS, looks like their PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

As for living forever, nothing lives forever, and it seems unrealistic to think that it could.

ONCE AGAIN, COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISSING the POINT, BECAUSE what I SAY and WRITE is BEING LOOKED AT and HEARD from one's OWN PERSONAL VIEWS, PREFERENCES, BELIEFS, and/or ASSUMPTIONS.

Thus, WHY MISUNDERSTANDING, BICKERING, FIGHTING, AND even KILLING was VERY PREVALENT, BACK in the days when this was being written.

These people BELIEVED SO STRONGLY that they ACTUALLY BELIEVED that what they BELIEVE WAS TRUE was ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY TRUE. As, ONCE AGAIN, SHOWN and PROVED True just here, in what this one WROTE and SAID here.

But ONCE that 'one' CHANGED the Wrong and BAD thinking and behavior, then 'it' evolved INTO some 'Thing' MUCH BIGGER and MUCH BETTER, namely God-like. Which IS who and what 'Life', Itself, has been CONTINUALLY evolving INTO and TO 'live'-like, FOREVER MORE.

That looks like some sort of teleology, as if there were a predetermined goal for humanity, which is something else I have no belief in.

AND HERE WE ARE ONCE AGAIN, and ONCE MORE.

This one here BEING STUCK, SOLID, in 'its' OWN PREFERRED BELIEFS.

Are you EVEN AWARE that your OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCES and VIEWS OF 'the world', OBVIOUSLY, do NOT necessarily ALIGN WITH what IS ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True, AT ALL?

I think you have an unrealistic idea of what human beings could be,

LOL
LOL
LOL

SO, to you, WHAT COULD 'human beings' ACTUALLY BE, EXACTLY?

AND, what do you even think IS MY IDEA of what 'human beings' COULD ACTUALLY BE, ANYWAY?

I would NOT be AT ALL SURPRISED if even 'this' is STILL COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISUNDERSTOOD, BY you.

which is hard to understand in view of all the evidence we have about what they actually are.

LOL

1. WHAT, EXACTLY, IS ALL, or even ANY, of 'the evidence' that 'you', human beings, HAVE ABOUT WHAT 'you', human beings, ACTUALLY ARE?

2. WHY are 'you' calling 'human beings' here, 'they' FOR?

I'm sorry, Age, but I'm not going to try to unpick this lot of spaghetti.

I'm sure some of what I say is incorrect, and I may sometimes be inconsistent, but I'm sure I don't make less sense than you do. You've got some very strange ideas, many of which I find irrational, and a good deal of your "irrefutable" truth is nothing of the sort. I'm not saying you have a closed mind, but you certainly seem to have.

[Age]

Is 'this', REALLY, ALL you KNOW?


But there are NO ACTUAL "sides".

"Sides" are ONLY CREATED when 'you', human beings, DECIDE TO CHOOSE A "side".

For example, there are NO ACTUAL "sides" to Nature/Nurture, Creation/Evolution, NOR ANY 'thing' "ELSE". There is ONLY One Life, One Existence, One Universe, One Truth, AND One Reality, and ONLY WHEN one learns, and/or uncovers, and UNDERSTANDS HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then UNTIL THEN 'you', people, WILL CONTINUE to LOOK AT and SEE the One and ONLY 'Thing', FROM "sides", or FROM DIFFERENT perspectives. Thus, continuing to CAUSE and CREATE the arguing, bickering, fighting, warring, AND KILLING, which 'you', adult human beings, are OBVIOUSLY DOING, IN the days when this WAS being written.

I could NOT and WOULD NOT 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' properly AND correctly, nor 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO DO what IS Right, and GOOD, in Life, IF NONE of 'you' were PREPARED TO YET.

HOWEVER, for ANY one who IS Truly INTERESTED IN LEARNING ANY of these 'things', then I am MORE than READY and WILLING to BEGIN.


Here we can SEE WHY warring CONTINUED.

This one here STILL SEES 'the world' AS: "us" AND "them", and it WAS for as long as 'they', BACK THEN, CHOSE to LOOK AT human beings AS: "us" AND "them", 'they' CONTINUED to argue, bicker, fight, war, AND KILL "each other".

I really must protest, Age, none of the above words attributed to me are mine.

It is true what Harbal says. Those words were from one of my posts.

I KNOW.

Someone must be hacking the forum and doing evil.

WHY MUST 'this' BE what IS HAPPENING and OCCURRING here?

Did you EVER consider to just SEEK OUT CLARITY FIRST, BEFORE you JUMPED TO A CONCLUSION like this one here?

This has happened at least twice that I have seen so far. My words are being misattributed or else used in other posts.

Do NOT 'writers' NOR 'posters' EVER MAKE MISTAKES WHEN writing OR posting?

This is deceit and malice.

Could it NEVER be JUST A MISTAKE?

This is not truth.

What IS 'truth', THEN, EXACTLY?

Someone is doing evil, lying, obfuscating, and hiding the real truth from others here, irrespective of who they harm or discredit. That is evil.

Okay. If 'this' is what you SAY and CLAIM IS HAPPENING, then 'this' MUST BE HAPPENING, right?

Oh, and by the way, AT THE TIME WHEN you wrote 'this reply' WHO, EXACTLY, HAD 'those words' ATTRIBUTED TO, EXACTLY?

[Age]

My reference to what some people seem to think evil is.

But HOW would ANY one, 'now', KNOW what the ORIGINAL meaning of the 'evil' word WAS.

For example, WHEN DID the 'evil' word even come into Existence.

No, that isn't the case.

So, are you SAYING and CLAIMING here that AT THE EXACT SAME TIME WHILE you BELIEVE some 'thing' to be true you are ALSO BELIEVING and/or OPEN to that 'thing' NOT ACTUALLY being true AT ALL?

Given a compelling argument, I could possibly be convinced otherwise, but it is true that this particular belief -or, rather, disbelief) is quite firm.

So, and IF you COULD BE 'convinced' otherwise, THEN WHEN at the ACTUAL TIME and MOMENT that you HAVE BEEN 'convinced' otherwise, and afterwards, are you STILL BELIEVING in what you WERE, PREVIOUSLY?

If yes, then HOW, EXACTLY?

But if no, then is this ANY DIFFERENT from what I have ACTUALLY been SAYING and CLAIMING here?

Also, and by the way, if a sound AND valid argument WAS PRESENTED, and thus GIVEN, then NO 'convincing' would be needed, as you could NOT REFUTE NOR DISAGREE WITH 'that argument' anyway, and so you would just HAVE TO ACCEPT 'it' AS WELL, while just LETTING GO of your PREVIOUS BELIEF on what was ACTUALLY False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect all along anyway.

"Wrong doing" is a relative term here,

OF COURSE. AND what is 'Wrong doing' to EVERY one is ALSO a relative AND objective term, if ANY one is Truly INTERESTED.

and only means wrong in the eyes, or opinion, of others.

OR, EVERY one, as One.

I'm not sure that I agree that no other animal could do this kind of wrong.

What 'kind' 'of wrong'?

And, do you have ANY examples of non human animals DOING Wrong, of ANY 'kind'?

If yes, then WILL you SHARE 'them'?

There are many species of social animal, and they have their social codes of behaviour.

Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE of 'this'?

If yes, then what are some of 'those codes', and, are 'those codes' BASED UPON Right and/or Wrong, EXACTLY, or on some OTHER 'thing', INSTEAD?

I can't think of an example, but I'm sure I have seen documentaries where individuals break the rules for personal advantage, and at the expense of other group members.

Okay, but was this what ACTUALLY EXACTLY HAPPENED, or was 'what happened' TOLD, TO you, by "ANOTHER" human being/s who may have be just anthropomorphizing 'things' here?

If the group reacts negatively to one of its members breaking the rules, that member has surely done wrong, just as a human being is considered to have done wrong when he breaks the rules to the cost of others.

Okay, but this is just more or less defining when 'one' KNOWS Right FROM Wrong, but WITHOUT ANY ACTUAL examples we have absolutely NOTHING to LOOK AT and DISCUSS here.

Again, when you use the word "wrong", it is only wrong in relation to a particular set of arbitrary rules.

OF COURSE. AND, WHEN I USE the 'wrong' word WITH a capital 'W', THEN I MEAN and REFER TO what is, ARBITRARY, 'Wrong' to EVERY one, and, WHEN I USE the 'wrong' word with a small 'w', THEN I MEAN and REFER TO what is, ARBITRARY, 'wrong' to SOME. Or, in other words, the word 'Wrong' REFERS TO 'that' what EVERY one AGREES WITH and ACCEPTS as BEING WRONG, and, the word 'wrong' REFERS TO 'that' what SOME AGREE WITH and ACCEPT as BEING WRONG.

I'm not sure that is relevent, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Okay.

Yes, I have seen that pointed out quite a few times before, as if there is some significance to it.

It is this KIND OF ATTITUDE WHY 'you', human beings, have TAKEN SO LONG to LEARN and DISCOVER what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

You keep using these subjective terms of "right", "wrong", "good" and "bad"

Name A 'term' or 'word' and/or the meaning or definition of that 'term' or 'word', which is NOT 'subjective'.

as if they have a meaning beyond being the personal points of view among human beings.

OF COURSE 'they' ARE ALL the so-called 'person points of views among 'you', human beings.

AND, let us NOT FORGET that it IS 'you' who somewhat think or BELIEVE that non human animals have their OWN, COLLECTIVE, and alluding to OBJECTIVE 'social code of behavior', AS WELL AS ALSO somewhat being OPEN to non human animals being able to DO 'this kind of wrong'. (Whatever 'kind of wrong' you are, subjectively, talking ABOUT here.

you are speaking here like human beings can NOT have an OBJECTIVELY KNOWING of Right AND Wrong, but OTHER animals CAN and ACTUALLY COULD DO 'wrong'.

That's your prerogative, of course, but it just makes what you say look like personal preference.

So what?

What EVERY one SAYS, looks like their PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

As for living forever, nothing lives forever, and it seems unrealistic to think that it could.

ONCE AGAIN, COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISSING the POINT, BECAUSE what I SAY and WRITE is BEING LOOKED AT and HEARD from one's OWN PERSONAL VIEWS, PREFERENCES, BELIEFS, and/or ASSUMPTIONS.

Thus, WHY MISUNDERSTANDING, BICKERING, FIGHTING, AND even KILLING was VERY PREVALENT, BACK in the days when this was being written.

These people BELIEVED SO STRONGLY that they ACTUALLY BELIEVED that what they BELIEVE WAS TRUE was ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY TRUE. As, ONCE AGAIN, SHOWN and PROVED True just here, in what this one WROTE and SAID here.

That looks like some sort of teleology, as if there were a predetermined goal for humanity, which is something else I have no belief in.

AND HERE WE ARE ONCE AGAIN, and ONCE MORE.

This one here BEING STUCK, SOLID, in 'its' OWN PREFERRED BELIEFS.

Are you EVEN AWARE that your OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCES and VIEWS OF 'the world', OBVIOUSLY, do NOT necessarily ALIGN WITH what IS ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLY True, AT ALL?

I think you have an unrealistic idea of what human beings could be,

LOL
LOL
LOL

SO, to you, WHAT COULD 'human beings' ACTUALLY BE, EXACTLY?

AND, what do you even think IS MY IDEA of what 'human beings' COULD ACTUALLY BE, ANYWAY?

I would NOT be AT ALL SURPRISED if even 'this' is STILL COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISUNDERSTOOD, BY you.

which is hard to understand in view of all the evidence we have about what they actually are.

LOL

1. WHAT, EXACTLY, IS ALL, or even ANY, of 'the evidence' that 'you', human beings, HAVE ABOUT WHAT 'you', human beings, ACTUALLY ARE?

2. WHY are 'you' calling 'human beings' here, 'they' FOR?

I'm sorry, Age, but I'm not going to try to unpick this lot of spaghetti.

Okay.

I'm sure some of what I say is incorrect, and I may sometimes be inconsistent, but I'm sure I don't make less sense than you do.

I am NOT MEANT TO 'make (even ANY) sense' UNTIL 'those' who are Truly INTERESTED COME FORWARD and START ASKING CLARIFYING QUESTIONS.

You've got some very strange ideas, many of which I find irrational, and a good deal of your "irrefutable" truth is nothing of the sort.

LOL HOW would you KNOW, considering the Fact that 'it' has YET TO BE CHALLENGED?

And, if you find ANY 'thing' 'IRRATIONAL', especially in a PHILOSOPHY forum, then WHY do you NOT CHALLENGE and/or QUESTION 'it'?

Also, just because an IDEA is DIFFERENT, then, OF COURSE, it would, on FIRST GLANCE, APPEAR so-called 'STRANGE'. But it is ONLY through CLARIFICATION, CHALLENGING, and/or QUESTIONING WILL 'ideas' be FOUND to be ACTUALLY STRANGE, or NOT.

I'm not saying you have a closed mind, but you certainly seem to have.

And IF I was to ASK you, 'What IS a 'mind', EXACTLY, which could be CLOSED, or NOT?' Then HOW LONG would 'we' HAVE TO WAIT for you TO ANSWER this QUESTION?

And, would you EVEN ANSWER A QUESTION like: What do 'I' seem to HAVE a so-called 'closed mind' ABOUT, EXACTLY?

We WILL SEE HOW LONG we WILL HAVE TO WAIT for you TO ANSWER this QUESTION.

[Gary Childress]

I really must protest, Age, none of the above words attributed to me are mine.

It is true what Harbal says. Those words were from one of my posts.

I KNOW.

Someone must be hacking the forum and doing evil.

WHY MUST 'this' BE what IS HAPPENING and OCCURRING here?

Did you EVER consider to just SEEK OUT CLARITY FIRST, BEFORE you JUMPED TO A CONCLUSION like this one here?

This has happened at least twice that I have seen so far. My words are being misattributed or else used in other posts.

Do NOT 'writers' NOR 'posters' EVER MAKE MISTAKES WHEN writing OR posting?

This is deceit and malice.

Could it NEVER be JUST A MISTAKE?

This is not truth.

What IS 'truth', THEN, EXACTLY?

Someone is doing evil, lying, obfuscating, and hiding the real truth from others here, irrespective of who they harm or discredit. That is evil.

Okay. If 'this' is what you SAY and CLAIM IS HAPPENING, then 'this' MUST BE HAPPENING, right?

Oh, and by the way, AT THE TIME WHEN you wrote 'this reply' WHO, EXACTLY, HAD 'those words' ATTRIBUTED TO, EXACTLY?

Someone put my words in a post and attributed then to Harbal. That is not TRUTH. That is deception. You did that in your post or else perhaps someone has hacked your account and done it for you. I don't know. But it leads to uncertainty and lack of trust.