Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

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dattaswami
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Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by dattaswami »

Remedial Part Also Shall Be Preached To Console Patient

Shri Anil asked:

1) A minister told that cancer is due to sin as per the divine plan. The cancer patients protested against this. What is your opinion?

2) Is death a fixed concept?

3) Lakshmana served Rama without food and sleep in the forest for 14 years. What is your comment on this devotion?


Swami Replied:

1) The concept is correct, but, the way of presentation of the concept is not correct. As a minister, he should not talk about philosophy. He should talk about the remedies that can be provided to the patients from the Government. Even a saint giving a discourse on spiritual knowledge cannot introduce this concept in such a direct way. This shows that only cancer-patients are sinners and not other patients. Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering (Purvajanma krutam paapam vyaadhirupena baadhate). The fruit of the sin can be any disease and need not be cancer only. AIDS is another incurable disease! The sin done yesterday is also called as sin done in the previous birth.

The soul (awareness) disappears in deep sleep (death) and appears on awakening (birth). If you take a day as a long moment, the philosophy of Buddha saying that soul is momentary is also correct. The eternality of soul proposed by Jainism is also correct because of constant appearance of the soul. Even in this long moment (day), the soul as nervous energy that propagates in the form of waves having crests and troughs alternatively indicating birth and death of the existing soul in every small moment of the long moment (day). It is just hypocrisy. When people say that they are suffering due to sins done in the previous birth, projecting as if they have not done any sin in this birth! For such people, this concept of previous birth linked to yesterday must be presented. The patients must be told about remedy also for the past sins done in ignorance.

If they realize, repent and don’t repeat the sin in future, all the past sins ready to give punishments in future get cancelled. Shankara says that the punishment already started (Praarabdha) can’t be cancelled like the arrow already left the bow can’t be controlled. At least, the fruits of the sins to be delivered in the future (Sanchita) get cancelled. Since sin is not repeated, there is no addition of future punishments (Aagaami).

Thus, except the present disease, all the other future punishments get cancelled. If the reformation of soul is perfect and is added to great devotion to God, the omnipotent God may even cancel the present punishment. Shri Satya Sai Baba told one devoted cancer-patient “Cancer is cancelled” and the cancer disappeared! This exceptional interference of God with Prarabdha punishment also exists basing on the sincerity and truth in the re-formation of the soul. Thus, remedial part also shall be preached to console the patient. Mere explanation of existing plan of implementation of divine constitution is only for increasing the suffering of soul without showing the possibility of any remedy!

2) Every concept observed in the nature is mainly governed by the scientific phenomena of the atmosphere. In the olden days, pollution was almost absent due to lack of ambition for pleasures, which did not promote industrialization causing horrible pollution. The average longevity of people in old generations was 120 years (Purusha aayusha). Now, it is reduced to around 60 years. The cause for such pollution is heavy industrialization, contamination of food grains with chemicals of pesticides, burning ghee in fire altars, burning candle lights etc. All these reasons come under the imaginable domain. Hence, the medical science was developed by sages, which is called as knowledge related to longevity (Ayurveda). Of course, the longevity can be reduced or extended by God in view of requirement of one’s services for the welfare of this world.

There can’t be mere social service without the basic spiritual service. Mere social service without basic spiritual service is just fraud as done by most of the present politicians! The presence of unimaginable God punishing the sinner even if he/she escapes the law here must be stressed in every step of social service. The poor people must be helped and at the same time, the reason of their poverty, which is previous sin, must be explained and its remedy must be preached to them. Then only, they will be released from poverty in the future births also and the help done to them will be properly utilized without diverting them to vices.

Such social service blended with spiritual service certainly pleases God to think about the extension of one’s longevity. If the fruit of sin is in the background along with divine force, even the remedies of the medical science fail to cure the disease. If the reason is only natural, medical science succeeds and in such case the soul is also protected from all the natural reasons by God as prevention. The spiritual aspects are very important standing as the basic background of the entire nature also. The unimaginable power of God (Maaya) is always in the background of the imaginable domain (Prakruti).

3) Lakshmana served Rama without food and sleep for 14 years and he could do so due to the power of chanting a special hidden Vedic hymn called as Bala and Atibala blessed by sage Vishvaamitra in the childhood. You may not find the real sacrifice in this aspect due to the power of the hymn. This point is also related to future requirement in killing the son of Ravana (Meghanaada), who can be killed only by a person fasting and not sleeping for 14 years. But, Lakshmana, younger to Rama was also married and did the service to Lord without enjoying His wife, while Rama and Sita were enjoying in the hut! This is sacrifice of desire for sex for the sake of Lord and this is not a small sacrifice!

Coming to the sacrifice of food and sleep in the service of Lord, let us assume that Lakshmana was not having such power of the Vedic hymn with him to overcome hunger and sleep. In such case also, do you expect Lakshmana to do the service of the Lord without food and sleep? Assuming that Lakshmana did so, he would have met with death in few days. Do you think that service for few days is better than the service for 14 years? He can do the service for 14 years by taking minimum food and minimum sleep so that the service can be done for a long time. Such long service is certainly far better than such short service.

Instead of giving one wedding meal to a beggar, it is better to feed him for 10 days with minimum normal meals! While doing service of the Lord, not only emotional inspiration is needed, but also, intellectual analysis is required. Devotion without knowledge goes in wrong direction. Hanuman was not only emotionally dedicated to the service of the Lord with His excellent physical strength, but also, involved with sharp intellectual analysis. When Hanuman was crossing the sea, angels tested Him by sending Surasaa in the form of demon to see whether He had mere physical strength with emotion or physical strength combined with analytical intelligence. Surasaa opened her mouth with ten sq. miles area.

Hanuman grew to 100 sq. miles-area with emotion. Then, Surasaa opened her mouth with area of 1000 sq. miles. Like this, the game went on for some time. Then, Hanuman thought that the time will be wasted without end, which is infinite hindrance to the service of God. The game was involved on the exhibition of the power of each to grow based on victory and defeat. Hanuman, due to lack of ego, accepted defeat suddenly, became 1sq. inch entity, entered the mouth of Surasaa and came out through her ear declaring the victory of Surasaa! Surasaa in her own form and angels appeared and appreciated Hanuman as best servant of God using emotion with physical strength and intellectual analysis together.

Hence, after acquiring knowledge patiently only, the emotional devotion shall be acquired, which is controlled and guided by the already existing knowledge. If devotion is acquired in the beginning itself, there is no patience to learn the knowledge after getting emotion. Devotion is the emotional force that transforms already existing knowledge into practice. Hence, knowledge of Shankara, devotion of Ramanuja and practice of Madhva are subsequent steps in the spiritual path to be achieved by the spiritual soul.
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Harbal
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by Harbal »

Shri Anil asked:

1) A minister told that cancer is due to sin as per the divine plan. The cancer patients protested against this. What is your opinion?

2) Is death a fixed concept?

3) Lakshmana served Rama without food and sleep in the forest for 14 years. What is your comment on this devotion?



Swami Replied:

1) My opinion is that the cancer patient should have given the minister a forceful punch to the throat.

2) If you are the one who is dead, then I would say it is a fixed concept.

3) No comment.
dattaswami
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by dattaswami »

Harbal wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:56 pm Shri Anil asked:

1) A minister told that cancer is due to sin as per the divine plan. The cancer patients protested against this. What is your opinion?

2) Is death a fixed concept?

3) Lakshmana served Rama without food and sleep in the forest for 14 years. What is your comment on this devotion?



Swami Replied:

1) My opinion is that the cancer patient should have given the minister a forceful punch to the throat.

2) If you are the one who is dead, then I would say it is a fixed concept.

3) No comment.
Whenever a disease attacks you due to the previous sin or some other natural factor, you should go immediately for the medical treatment (tatshaanti raushadhai...). Hence, medical treatment is the first step. One should not think that medical treatment is against the spiritual path. Often, some foolish devotees think like this and feel highly spiritual by saying “yesterday I got fever. I didn’t take any medicine. I was simply praying Lord Rama for the cure”. Such foolish devotee must know that Lord Vishnu Himself created the medicines and gave medical knowledge to the humanity (Vijnaanam etat sarvam janaaardanaat). The Veda says that medicines are created by God (Pruthivyaa oshadhayah).

The reason is that you don’t know whether this illness is the result of your carelessness towards natural laws or due to the punishment of a sin done by you as per the cycle of deeds. You might have got cold. It might have been due to your exposure to cold wind or rains or due to taking lemon juice, tender tamarind fruits etc. In such case, you can take the usual ‘COLDACT’ tablet. You will get immediate cure since this incident comes under the category of ‘Atyutkata karma’, which means actions giving immediate results.

When you are drenched in the rain, you will get cold immediately. It is not a sin, the fruit of which is to be enjoyed in the hell or the next birth. You should not say that if one is drenched in rain in this birth, cold and cough will attack him in the hell or heaven after his death or in the next life. When the medicine is given for a long time and the disease become incurable, then only, you must bring this problem to the normal category of sins and fruits.

Then only, you must understand that the illness is given to you by the divine administration as a fruit of your previous sin. Such diseases only come under this category in which case the medical treatment fails. The cure of such disease takes place only when the fruit of sin gets exhausted or God cures it by His grace. The miracles are connected to such incurable diseases only.

Jesus gave sight to a blind person, which was impossible in the medical treatment. The filtration of these two types of diseases is done by medical treatment only. If the treatment applies, the illness is not due to any sin, but, due to carelessness to follow the natural laws, which are also created by God only. The remedies for such disease (medicine and medical science) were also given by the same God. If the disease is not cured by medical treatment, you have to treat the disease as the fruit of your past sin. This second type of diseases also comes under the divine administration of God only (because the punishments of sins are also given by God only as per the constitution). The cure of such disease is again by the grace of God only as seen in the miracles (otherwise the soul should undergo the punishment till the whole quantum is exhausted). Show Me a cubic millimetre of space, where God is not involved!



A great devotee also feels shy to take medicines for the disease because he feels that the spectators will feel his devotion as lower because higher devotion to God will cure the disease without medicines. Even the human incarnation, who is capable of curing the disease without the medicine, will not use the special divine power to cure the disease or even to prevent the disease.

Disease is the inherent characteristic of external gross body of human incarnation, which is as good as any other human body. To cure the disease, the knowledge of medicines is given by God to humanity as medical science. When such a general provision is existing, what is the need of a special provision to cure the curable disease by spiritual power?

When a general provision of pacification of hunger by food and thirst by water is established by God, what is the necessity of invoking special power to cure these natural symptoms? If a devotee is deserving and such a deserving devotee is effected by incurable disease, the human incarnation cures such disease by using the special divine power in order to help the devotee in the spiritual path by granting peace and health. A normal disease of any human being including Himself (His human body) can be cured by medicines blessed by God (Himself) only. Similarly, other symptoms can be cured in general way. The human incarnation also can cure these symptoms using the general provision established by God for all human beings including the human being-component of human incarnation. If special divine power is used for the sake of such symptom that can be cured by general provision, it only shows the specialty of self or ego. Similarly, devotees with hypocrisy do not like to use medicines for their illness before public! They take medicines secretly and say to public that their illness disappeared due to the special grace of God on them! All this is hypocrisy only.

The human incarnation never exhibits such hypocrisy and begs for food to satisfy the hunger, asks for water to pacify the thirst and purchases medicines to cure illness following the general provision, which is also divine being blessed by God. Once, this Datta Swami was taking food in the house of a devotee. This Swami took some tablets while eating the food as usual. A highly spiritual saint was also dining along with this Swami. He felt in his mind like this – “This Swami cured the incurable disease like coma of the wife of the deserving devotee, Ajay. But, why is He taking these tablets meant for normal illness like sugar etc?” Then, this Datta Swami (God Datta spoke actually) said all the above points through the throat of this Swami. Swami represents human being component and Datta Swami represents human incarnation. The spiritual saint (a doctor turned to be a saint) immediately fell on the feet of this Swami for giving a correct answer to the question that was not expressed by him orally! This Swami replied that God Datta is omniscient!
Age
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by Age »

Is EVERY thing written in ALL scriptures ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True?

If yes, then are you ABSOLUTELY SURE?

But if no, then who does ANY person KNOW WHEN 'what scripture is saying is true, or not'?
dattaswami
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by dattaswami »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:17 am Is EVERY thing written in ALL scriptures ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True?

If yes, then are you ABSOLUTELY SURE?

But if no, then who does ANY person KNOW WHEN 'what scripture is saying is true, or not'?
One should never ever accept any scripture of any religion blindly without prefect logical analysis of the statements. God is the most genius and He never say anything illogical. If any part is illogical be sure that it is an insertion. Now how to proceed in this very important aspect. The following procedure shall be used to detect illogical statements in any scripture of any religion.


What is scripture? Scripture is defined as the word of God, which is the knowledge given by God for the sake of welfare of humanity. All agree to this. But, to give word, which is preaching of knowledge, God must have mouth and throat. We have established that God is unimaginable because the substance with which God is made and the original form in which God exists are unimaginable.

In such case, how can you say that God has told this or that? Even the Veda, believed as the composed scripture by God, mentions the names of sages as the composers (Rushi) of each part. This clearly shows that the sages have composed the Vedas. Lord Buddha, one of the human incarnations, also told that the Vedas are composed by human beings (devoted sages) only and hence the Vedas are called as ‘Paurusheyas’. All this is perfectly correct as one side of the concept. The other side of this topic is to believe the Vedas as scriptures composed by God and hence the Vedas are called as ‘Apaurusheyas’.

There is a controversy between Buddha and Hindu tradition in this point. Instead of bringing controversy up and to conclude that Buddha and Hindu tradition differ with each other, it is always better to show the correlation between these two opposing views. The correlation is that God revealed this knowledge called the Veda to the devoted sages and these devoted sages expressed that divine knowledge in their own statements. The composer of knowledge is God and the composer of the statement expressing that knowledge is the devoted sage.

In the angle of God, the Veda is Aparusheya and in the angle of the devoted sage, the Veda is Paurusheya. Both views are correct without any contradiction. But, the meaning of statement is knowledge and this is the most important essence by which alone humanity is benefited. The language acts as a vehicle of communication only and is not so important as the knowledge. The goods in the vehicle is knowledge and the vehicle is the language. Both are necessary. The payment for the transport by vehicle is very little compared to the payment for goods indicating values.

The scripture itself says that you should analyze every statement of the scripture through scientific analysis. This does not mean that the scripture doubts about its own genuine value. The idea of the suggestion of analysis by the scripture itself is to test its every statement to ensure that it is said by God (Knowledge wise) and not inserted by some wrong scholar.

Reserve Bank asks every bank to test every note of the bundle to ensure that all notes belong to Reserve Bank only. For this purpose, every note must be checked. If a note is found to be genuine note printed by Reserve Bank, the Reserve Bank should not feel that it is insulted because even the genuine note printed by it is tested! Once we found the note to be genuine, we will not test that genuine note again and again doubting the Reserve Bank itself.

We know that the Reserve Bank will not print a fake note and that God will not say illogical knowledge to sages. A preliminary and final test of each note is essential to find whether the note is genuine or fake. If you get the bundle of notes directly from the press of Reserve Bank, there is no need of test. But, since the notes printed by Reserve Bank have gone in to market facing rotation for a long time, we cannot believe that every note is genuine and should not be tested by analysis. Similarly, we have not received the scripture straight from the devoted sages. The scripture given by God to sages and subsequently delivered by sages did not come to us straight from the mouths of sages. Long time has gone before we received the scripture delivered by sages. In this long time, so many insertions might have entered the scripture.

The printing technology did not exist during this long period so that we can say that the scripture delivered by sages was immediately printed and no insertions could take place. Even if it is orally preserved through recitations from generation to generation, we cannot rule out totally the possibility of insertions. If the scripture is totally genuine without any insertion, it will pass out through the test of analysis like Sita passing out the test of fire.
Why should you fear for the test if it is genuine? After passing through the test of analysis, nobody will dare to say that the scripture is believed blindly by the conservative followers. This unnecessary blame on the scripture as well as on the followers can be avoided by the test. Such test will reinforce the faith in every follower especially in the absence of doubts and blames. Even the scripture like the Gita told by the human incarnations, has equal possibility of insertions and hence analysis was recommended by the Gita itself as the last word. Scripture of no religion is an exception of this concept.
Age
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by Age »

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:12 am
Age wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:17 am Is EVERY thing written in ALL scriptures ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True?

If yes, then are you ABSOLUTELY SURE?

But if no, then who does ANY person KNOW WHEN 'what scripture is saying is true, or not'?
One should never ever accept any scripture of any religion blindly without prefect logical analysis of the statements.
Okay, which is EXACTLY what I do THROUGH asking CLARIFYING QUESTIONS. Like these ones that I am asking you here. But which you are FAILING considerably in CLARIFYING.

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:12 am God is the most genius and He never say anything illogical.
But even this very statement and claim here of yours, through ANALYSIS, is ABSOLUTELY and PERFECTLY ILLOGICAL.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:12 am If any part is illogical be sure that it is an insertion. Now how to proceed in this very important aspect. The following procedure shall be used to detect illogical statements in any scripture of any religion.
If the following actually worked, then WHY can you NOT detect YOUR OWN VERY ILLOGICAL STATEMENTS?
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:12 am What is scripture? Scripture is defined as the word of God, which is the knowledge given by God for the sake of welfare of humanity. All agree to this. But, to give word, which is preaching of knowledge, God must have mouth and throat. We have established that God is unimaginable because the substance with which God is made and the original form in which God exists are unimaginable.
So, considering the Fact it might be true that just about ALL cultures, if NOT ALL, have some sort of 'scripture', this would now mean that ALL 'scriptures', and ALL INTERPRETATIONS of 'scriptures', are ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True. Which just makes what you are SAYING and CLAIMING here all the MORE ABSURD and RIDICULOUS.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:12 am In such case, how can you say that God has told this or that? Even the Veda, believed as the composed scripture by God, mentions the names of sages as the composers (Rushi) of each part. This clearly shows that the sages have composed the Vedas. Lord Buddha, one of the human incarnations, also told that the Vedas are composed by human beings (devoted sages) only and hence the Vedas are called as ‘Paurusheyas’. All this is perfectly correct as one side of the concept. The other side of this topic is to believe the Vedas as scriptures composed by God and hence the Vedas are called as ‘Apaurusheyas’.

There is a controversy between Buddha and Hindu tradition in this point. Instead of bringing controversy up and to conclude that Buddha and Hindu tradition differ with each other, it is always better to show the correlation between these two opposing views. The correlation is that God revealed this knowledge called the Veda to the devoted sages and these devoted sages expressed that divine knowledge in their own statements. The composer of knowledge is God and the composer of the statement expressing that knowledge is the devoted sage.

In the angle of God, the Veda is Aparusheya and in the angle of the devoted sage, the Veda is Paurusheya. Both views are correct without any contradiction. But, the meaning of statement is knowledge and this is the most important essence by which alone humanity is benefited. The language acts as a vehicle of communication only and is not so important as the knowledge. The goods in the vehicle is knowledge and the vehicle is the language. Both are necessary. The payment for the transport by vehicle is very little compared to the payment for goods indicating values.

The scripture itself says that you should analyze every statement of the scripture through scientific analysis. This does not mean that the scripture doubts about its own genuine value. The idea of the suggestion of analysis by the scripture itself is to test its every statement to ensure that it is said by God (Knowledge wise) and not inserted by some wrong scholar.

Reserve Bank asks every bank to test every note of the bundle to ensure that all notes belong to Reserve Bank only. For this purpose, every note must be checked. If a note is found to be genuine note printed by Reserve Bank, the Reserve Bank should not feel that it is insulted because even the genuine note printed by it is tested! Once we found the note to be genuine, we will not test that genuine note again and again doubting the Reserve Bank itself.

We know that the Reserve Bank will not print a fake note and that God will not say illogical knowledge to sages. A preliminary and final test of each note is essential to find whether the note is genuine or fake. If you get the bundle of notes directly from the press of Reserve Bank, there is no need of test. But, since the notes printed by Reserve Bank have gone in to market facing rotation for a long time, we cannot believe that every note is genuine and should not be tested by analysis. Similarly, we have not received the scripture straight from the devoted sages. The scripture given by God to sages and subsequently delivered by sages did not come to us straight from the mouths of sages. Long time has gone before we received the scripture delivered by sages. In this long time, so many insertions might have entered the scripture.

The printing technology did not exist during this long period so that we can say that the scripture delivered by sages was immediately printed and no insertions could take place. Even if it is orally preserved through recitations from generation to generation, we cannot rule out totally the possibility of insertions. If the scripture is totally genuine without any insertion, it will pass out through the test of analysis like Sita passing out the test of fire.
Why should you fear for the test if it is genuine? After passing through the test of analysis, nobody will dare to say that the scripture is believed blindly by the conservative followers. This unnecessary blame on the scripture as well as on the followers can be avoided by the test. Such test will reinforce the faith in every follower especially in the absence of doubts and blames. Even the scripture like the Gita told by the human incarnations, has equal possibility of insertions and hence analysis was recommended by the Gita itself as the last word. Scripture of no religion is an exception of this concept.
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by Iwannaplato »

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:04 am When you are drenched in the rain, you will get cold immediately. It is not a sin, the fruit of which is to be enjoyed in the hell or the next birth.
But if you live in a village on the side of a mountain and your village is drenched in stones or mudflows and every person dies, that is a sign that they were all sinners. And God is efficient, in this case. He made sure that all the people living there were people who deserve to die or be paralyzed, even the babies in the wombs of their mothers.
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by dattaswami »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:29 pm
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:04 am When you are drenched in the rain, you will get cold immediately. It is not a sin, the fruit of which is to be enjoyed in the hell or the next birth.
But if you live in a village on the side of a mountain and your village is drenched in stones or mudflows and every person dies, that is a sign that they were all sinners. And God is efficient, in this case. He made sure that all the people living there were people who deserve to die or be paralyzed, even the babies in the wombs of their mothers.
Let me clarify it. I think you misunderstood the following para:

When you are drenched in the rain, you will get cold immediately. It is not a sin, the fruit of which is to be enjoyed in the hell or the next birth. You should not say that if one is drenched in rain in this birth, cold and cough will attack him in the hell or heaven after his death or in the next life.

The underlined portion is referring to sinful deeds (like illegal sex, corruption of money etc) not cold got by drenching in rain....
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by dattaswami »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:19 pm
So, considering the Fact it might be true that just about ALL cultures, if NOT ALL, have some sort of 'scripture', this would now mean that ALL 'scriptures', and ALL INTERPRETATIONS of 'scriptures', are ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True. Which just makes what you are SAYING and CLAIMING here all the MORE ABSURD and RIDICULOUS.
The scripture of every religion in the world was written by the same one unimaginable God and the written contents (syllabus) is one and the same even though the culture and language differs from one religion to the other. The goals and paths prescribed by scriptures are one and the same because the goal and author is one and the same God.

Certain defects appeared in the scriptures due to insertions made by some ignorant followers and due to this, no religion shall be rejected and none should convert in to other religion. If you filter these impurities, all religions become only one religion called Universal Religion based on Universal spirituality.

Then, religions differ only externally by different cultures and languages. Every devotee can exist in one’s own religion and simultaneously be a member of Universal religion just like a citizen in India belongs to a State Government and simultaneously to the Central Government!
Unimaginable aspect is beyond imagination, which is neither imaginable matter nor imaginable energy. Energy or space was created by God (Tat tejo'sṛjata..., Ātmana Ākāśaḥ...- Veda), which became matter (Ākāśāt vāyuḥ...- Veda) and awareness (Annāt puruṣaḥ...- Veda) in due course of the process of creation.
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by Iwannaplato »

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:59 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:29 pm
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:04 am When you are drenched in the rain, you will get cold immediately. It is not a sin, the fruit of which is to be enjoyed in the hell or the next birth.
But if you live in a village on the side of a mountain and your village is drenched in stones or mudflows and every person dies, that is a sign that they were all sinners. And God is efficient, in this case. He made sure that all the people living there were people who deserve to die or be paralyzed, even the babies in the wombs of their mothers.
Let me clarify it. I think you misunderstood the following para:

When you are drenched in the rain, you will get cold immediately. It is not a sin, the fruit of which is to be enjoyed in the hell or the next birth. You should not say that if one is drenched in rain in this birth, cold and cough will attack him in the hell or heaven after his death or in the next life.

The underlined portion is referring to sinful deeds (like illegal sex, corruption of money etc) not cold got by drenching in rain....
Sure. But when one is out and nature does something one cannot predict, be it rain or avalanche, sometimes you have sinned, sometimes not. And then the whole scenario above, where an entire village is killed by a mudslide or avalanche...all of them deserved this and coincidentatly lived together and the pregnant women and the babies inside them also deserved punishment. God was efficient in those cases. In other cases only one person dies when a rock falls, but here
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... e-was-dead
all those in the village deserved to die
and any relatives or villagers on errands outside the village, deserved to lose those close to them.
Sometimes it rains water, sometimes stones or snow.

And most women, the vast majority, suffer immensely in childbirth, regardless of how they have lived. God could have made this different. And since you think he wants to be entertained and must therefore, since he included humans in his entertainment, want humans, he wants more births, yet for some reason he created us with bodies that suffer immensely in childbirth.
Last edited by Iwannaplato on Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scripture says that the sin done in the previous birth results in disease causing suffering

Post by Age »

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm
Age wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:19 pm
So, considering the Fact it might be true that just about ALL cultures, if NOT ALL, have some sort of 'scripture', this would now mean that ALL 'scriptures', and ALL INTERPRETATIONS of 'scriptures', are ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True. Which just makes what you are SAYING and CLAIMING here all the MORE ABSURD and RIDICULOUS.
The scripture of every religion in the world was written by the same one unimaginable God
EACH TIME you call God UNIMAGINABLE I WILL REMIND the readers just HOW ABSOLUTELY STUPID, RIDICULOUS, ABSURD, IDIOTIC, FOOLISH, ILLOGICAL, and NONSENSICAL this CLAIM of YOURS here.

The scriptures of ALL human beings, and NOT just EVERY religion, 'in the world', COMES FROM thee One, which some of 'you', human beings, call the Spirit, Allah, God, Enlightenment, among a few other 'things'. HOWEVER, ALL that COME FROM this One and ONLY SAGE gets DISTORTED through each person's OWN individual and personal EXPERIENCES and INTERPRETATIONS.

In other words the ORIGINAL message and/or words GET LOST through TRANSLATION/S. So, what was ORIGINALLY MEANT or CONVEYED becomes LOST and/or MISINTERPRETED. Just think about just how EASY and SIMPLE this happens when playing those games where one message is passed along.

From the OUTSET the ACTUAL message can be MISTRANSLATED, which then it is the MISTRANSLATED version/message that is what gets passed on.

This happens even from when THE message is COMING FROM the INNER MOST Knowing One, in ALL of 'us'.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm and the written contents (syllabus) is one and the same even though the culture and language differs from one religion to the other. The goals and paths prescribed by scriptures are one and the same because the goal and author is one and the same God.
This might well be all good and True, but WHY do you PASS ON YOUR OWN DISTORTED and/or MISINTERPRETED TRANSLATION?

Most people do NOT want to SEE NOR HEAR your OWN DISTORTED and Wrong version of 'things'.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm Certain defects appeared in the scriptures due to insertions made by some ignorant followers and due to this, no religion shall be rejected and none should convert in to other religion.
AND, the OBVIOUS to US, ANYWAY, DEFECTS APPEARING here, which are due to YOUR IGNORANTLY FOLLOWED INSERTIONS "dattaswami", ALSO SHOULD NOT be CONVERTED in ANY 'religion' NOR 'scripture' EITHER.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm If you filter these impurities, all religions become only one religion called Universal Religion based on Universal spirituality.
Okay, and this is FAIR and GOOD.

But WHY can you NOT SEE ANY let alone ALL of the IMPURITIES that YOU are ADDING HERE INTO the MIX?

ENOUGH people HAVE POINTED OUT YOUR OWN IMPURITIES ENOUGH TIMES ALREADY, for you to be ABLE TO SEE 'them' CLEARLY ALREADY.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm Then, religions differ only externally by different cultures and languages.
So, WHY would you even BEGIN to make the OBVIOUSLY STUPID ASSUMPTION that YOUR 'culture' and/or 'language' has or holds the True and Right VERSION, ONLY?
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm Every devotee can exist in one’s own religion and simultaneously be a member of Universal religion just like a citizen in India belongs to a State Government and simultaneously to the Central Government!
SO WHAT?

What you are desperately 'trying to' argue and fight FOR here is CERTAINLY NOT being backed up NOR supported by these words AT ALL.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm Unimaginable aspect is beyond imagination,
It is these kinds of words that become VERY ANNOYING.

BESIDES the Fact that I have ALREADY PROVED IRREFUTABLY, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, that YOUR OWN CLAIM that God IS UNIMAGINABLE is BEYOND STUPIDITY ITSELF, now CLAIMING this TAUTOLOGY here is EVEN MORE STUPID than what I FIRST thought was BEYOND STUPIDITY.
dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm which is neither imaginable matter nor imaginable energy.
BESIDES this CLAIM being ABSOLUTELY False AND Wrong, WHO and WHAT God IS EXACTLY is ALREADY KNOWN BECAUSE this has ALREADY BEEN PROVEN to be the IRREFUTABLY True, Right, Accurate, and Correct Knowledge.

dattaswami wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:01 pm Energy or space was created by God (Tat tejo'sṛjata..., Ātmana Ākāśaḥ...- Veda), which became matter (Ākāśāt vāyuḥ...- Veda) and awareness (Annāt puruṣaḥ...- Veda) in due course of the process of creation.
If you want to CLAIM some 'thing', then I suggest you CLAIM some 'thing that EVERY one could AGREE WITH and ACCEPTED and which could be backed up and supported through and by SCIENCE and RELIGION. Is this UNDERSTOOD by you?
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