The Left Destroys EVERYTHING It Touches

[henry quirk]

Interesting that it's the 'right leaning' who are always blithering on about 'freedom', yet they are the ones who are anti 'freedom' in anything that doesn't conform with their twisted view of 'morality'. 'Freedom' is fine, unless it's the 'freedom' of anyone they don't like...

So bein' anti-reparations is bein' anti-freedom?

How are reparations moral?

Which is moral: makin' the truly aggrieved whole, or, throwin' a bone to anyone who just claims injury?

Which is moral: holdin' accountable the actual offender, or, blindly condemnin' anyone just becuz they happen to be alive?

Reparations would come in handy for the land the English stole off my ancestors in Ireland

I agree, but -- as the aggrieved -- the burden of proof lies with you. You have to show how your ancestors were screwed over (and I mean folks of your bloodline, not a generalization). You have to show how you, today, suffer becuz of that theft. You have to pinpoint the actual aggressors of yesterday, as well as their living descendants today. And you have to show how those living descendants have benefitted from that theft from long ago.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

So bein' anti-reparations is bein' anti-freedom?

How are reparations moral?

Which is moral: makin' the truly aggrieved whole, or, throwin' a bone to anyone who just claims injury?

Which is moral: holdin' accountable the actual offender, or, blindly condemnin' anyone just becuz they happen to be alive?

Reparations would come in handy for the land the English stole off my ancestors in Ireland

I agree, but -- as the aggrieved -- the burden of proof lies with you. You have to show how your ancestors were screwed over (and I mean folks of your bloodline, not a generalization). You have to show how you, today, suffer becuz of that theft. You have to pinpoint the actual aggressors of yesterday, as well as their living descendants today. And you have to show how those living descendants have benefitted from that theft from long ago.

It was pretty easy to prove with genealogical research and the internet. I was being facetious anyway. It's not in my nature to be greedy and grasping or to use whatever happnened to people in the distant past for monetary gain. 'Genetic victimhood' has become a massive industry, with just a handful of cynical greedmongers reaping all the rewards, and often for made up or greatly exaggerated 'wrongs'. Can't blame them I suppose. They are only exploiting for personal gain the wokie fetish for 'faux guilt' and self-flagellation.

[Belinda]

Time the US tightened up its controls against these international criminals.

Time to cripple the gov: without its Big Stick, international criminals got no protection.

-----

you can't give her money to "make it right."

And even if that worked: whose money?

Before Joe, the supposed descendant of slaves, gets a check, we ought put his claims to the test.

Gonna need evidence Joe is a descendant of slaves; gonna need evidence that Joe himself has somehow been inconvenienced by the enslavement of his ancestors (none of this, cultural/institutional/systemic discrimination manure...real evidence, demonstratin' how Joe's life woulda been better if his great great grandpappy hadn't been treated as property, is needed).

What else?

Joe has to identify the descendants of the slavers who treated his great great grandpappy so terribly (cuz any claim he has is only, can only be, against them). No, the blanket condemnation of whites won't do (Stan's family line includes no slavers, no claim can be laid against him). Then Joe must pony up the evidence that these descendants of slavers benefited from their ancestor's slavin' ways.

Pretty much: as in any criminal trial, Joe has to prove his claims, prove he's a victim, prove the accused is guilty (by way of lineage and actual benefit by way of lineage). Only then can the talks start about how many 0s mebbe ought to follow the 1 on that check.

Africans who were exploited had to be handled more discreetly than were African slaves in America. This is because there were far more native Africans than Europeans in the African colonies, so it was necessary for the European colonists to control their labour by political measures.

In America these political complications were not needed as all that was necessary to exploit the comparatively few African slaves was to invent the paradigm that they were not full human beings but were an inferior breed. That is why the problem with African 'ex' colonies is corruption, whereas the problem with America is racism.

[Immanuel Can]

That is why the problem with African 'ex' colonies is corruption, whereas the problem with America is racism.

No, the corruption is all from African officials, not from "colonists." Look at Zimbabwe, for example: there, all whites were dispossessed, and how die that work out for the Africans in that country? Of course, Socialism always does that, though Zimbabwe's Socialism was some of the worst anywhere. But you can't blame "colonialism" for it. That's just not plausible.

And in America, a black man became President and was elected by popular vote twice. There, you're admitted to higher education more easily and on lower standards if you're a privileged minority...unless you're Chinese or some other "oriental."

So much for "racism" there. If anything, "affirmative action" makes racism favour the minorities.

[henry quirk]

the problem with America is racism

No. One of America's problems are folks makin' a buck on racism. Call 'em professional agitators. They're everywhere, sprinkled thru-out the country, attachin' themselves, lamprey-like to businesses and organizations. They, for pay, inflate mole hills into mountains, diagnose culture cancers where there are only blemishes.

They are part of that class of parasite who quietly create problems then loudly proclaim they have the solution for the problems.

Racists exist, yes: white racists, black racists, brown, yellow, and red racists. Men and women, young and old, rich and poor. But they are individuals, poisoned souls. There's no cultural/systemic/institutional racism. And those who say there is are drawin' a paycheck, of one kind or another, to quietly inspire racism, then, with fanfare, offer solutions to racism.

Those solutions? Always involve someone gettin' cut off at the knees and never involve actually elevatin' anyone.

And always these solutions are designed the appeal to that fatal tendency of mankind...

Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.

But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man — in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.

Whole generations of Americans have been eaten up by these professional agitators caterin' to this fatal tendency. Generations taught to envy, to rely on others, taught they can't get a fair shake cuz the white man has his boot on their throats, taught to subsist and hate, taught they can't and never will till they back this problem-solver or solution (which, as I say, never solves diddly).

When I was a kid: it was all about color doesn't matter.

Now: it's color is all that matters, that, and make whitey -- any whitey -- pay.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

the problem with America is racism

No. One of America's problems are folks makin' a buck on racism. Call 'em professional agitators. They're everywhere, sprinkled thru-out the country, attachin' themselves, lamprey-like to businesses and organizations. They, for pay, inflate mole hills into mountains, diagnose culture cancers where there are only blemishes.

They are part of that class of parasite who quietly create problems then loudly proclaim they have the solution for the problems.

Racists exist, yes: white racists, black racists, brown, yellow, and red racists. Men and women, young and old, rich and poor. But they are individuals, poisoned souls. There's no cultural/systemic/institutional racism. And those who say there is are drawin' a paycheck, of one kind or another, to quietly inspire racism, then, with fanfare, offer solutions to racism.

Those solutions? Always involve someone gettin' cut off at the knees and never involve actually elevatin' anyone.

And always these solutions are designed the appeal to that fatal tendency of mankind...

Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.

But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man — in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.

Whole generations of Americans have been eaten up by these professional agitators caterin' to this fatal tendency. Generations taught to envy, to rely on others, taught they can't get a fair shake cuz the white man has his boot on their throats, taught to subsist and hate, taught they can't and never will till they back this problem-solver or solution (which, as I say, never solves diddly).

When I was a kid: it was all about color doesn't matter.

Now: it's color is all that matters, that, and make whitey -- any whitey -- pay.

It's the same here. Unfortunately these 'memes' spread and poison the rest of the planet--that's 'social evolution'; ideas that catch on. It's just sad that they have spread to countries that never had racism to speak of in the first place.

[Belinda]

That is why the problem with African 'ex' colonies is corruption, whereas the problem with America is racism.

No, the corruption is all from African officials, not from "colonists." Look at Zimbabwe, for example: there, all whites were dispossessed, and how die that work out for the Africans in that country? Of course, Socialism always does that, though Zimbabwe's Socialism was some of the worst anywhere. But you can't blame "colonialism" for it. That's just not plausible.

And in America, a black man became President and was elected by popular vote twice. There, you're admitted to higher education more easily and on lower standards if you're a privileged minority...unless you're Chinese or some other "oriental."

So much for "racism" there. If anything, "affirmative action" makes racism favour the minorities.

Immanuel, you don't know how European colonists governed huge numbers of African people. Nor do you know that corruption among African big men is facilitated to this day by a few rich men who have a financial stake in African minerals and agriculture. You are so naive.

[Belinda]

the problem with America is racism

No. One of America's problems are folks makin' a buck on racism. Call 'em professional agitators. They're everywhere, sprinkled thru-out the country, attachin' themselves, lamprey-like to businesses and organizations. They, for pay, inflate mole hills into mountains, diagnose culture cancers where there are only blemishes.

They are part of that class of parasite who quietly create problems then loudly proclaim they have the solution for the problems.

Racists exist, yes: white racists, black racists, brown, yellow, and red racists. Men and women, young and old, rich and poor. But they are individuals, poisoned souls. There's no cultural/systemic/institutional racism. And those who say there is are drawin' a paycheck, of one kind or another, to quietly inspire racism, then, with fanfare, offer solutions to racism.

Those solutions? Always involve someone gettin' cut off at the knees and never involve actually elevatin' anyone.

And always these solutions are designed the appeal to that fatal tendency of mankind...

Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.

But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man — in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.

Whole generations of Americans have been eaten up by these professional agitators caterin' to this fatal tendency. Generations taught to envy, to rely on others, taught they can't get a fair shake cuz the white man has his boot on their throats, taught to subsist and hate, taught they can't and never will till they back this problem-solver or solution (which, as I say, never solves diddly).

When I was a kid: it was all about color doesn't matter.

Now: it's color is all that matters, that, and make whitey -- any whitey -- pay.

I'll put it simply so you might possibly understand. When American policemen shoot an unarmed black man in his back, and when an American policeman is filmed deliberately suffocating a black man in full public view, that is racism among the police force.When a so -called militiaman takes a weapon out to kill and wound black people and is not punished for doing so that is no meme that is racism.

I'd be fearful of visiting America in case white policemen break into my house while I am lying in my bed and shoot me dead as has also happened in America and that was no meme that was racism.

[Immanuel Can]

That is why the problem with African 'ex' colonies is corruption, whereas the problem with America is racism.

No, the corruption is all from African officials, not from "colonists." Look at Zimbabwe, for example: there, all whites were dispossessed, and how die that work out for the Africans in that country? Of course, Socialism always does that, though Zimbabwe's Socialism was some of the worst anywhere. But you can't blame "colonialism" for it. That's just not plausible.

And in America, a black man became President and was elected by popular vote twice. There, you're admitted to higher education more easily and on lower standards if you're a privileged minority...unless you're Chinese or some other "oriental."

So much for "racism" there. If anything, "affirmative action" makes racism favour the minorities.

Immanuel, you don't know how European colonists governed huge numbers of African people.

Actually, I do. If you had any idea how well knew, you'd probably think twice about declaring such a thing.

Nor do you know that corruption among African big men is facilitated to this day by a few rich men who have a financial stake in African minerals and agriculture.

No, you're infantilizing the Africans again. They are not helpless fools of Western interests: the bad ones are malicious colluders with them. They know what they're doing to their own people: they just don't care. Over there, tribe and status transcend any national loyalties or identity.

I've lived there. Have you? So who is "naive"?

[henry quirk]

When American policemen shoot an unarmed black man in his back, and when an American policeman is filmed deliberately suffocating a black man in full public view, that is racism among the police force.

Nope. Mebbe you got two racists. You don't got institutional racism.


When a so -called militiaman takes a weapon out to kill and wound black people and is not punished for doing so that is no meme that is racism.

You're takin' about the Rittenhouse kid? He shot three white guys, killin' two and cripplin' the third.


I'd be fearful of visiting America in case white policemen break into my house while I am lying in my bed and shoot me dead as has also happened in America and that was no meme that was racism.

That's like sayin' you're a'fear'd to cross a street at the crosswalk cuz a driver just might run you down. It happens, but not with regularity. If folks were gettin' off'd at crosswalks everyday, everywhere; if cops were breakin' into homes killin' folks everywhere, every day: you'd hear about it. You don't. And when cops do overstep it's front page, headline, top story news...for days, weeks, even. Why? Cuz it's rare.

As I say, racists exist. They don't, however, dominate American life.


I'll put it simply so you might possibly understand.

How can you lecture me on what you don't understand?

You don't understand diddly, B.

You've been told a certain thing, you conduct that thing, and you never question it.

You're a mouthpiece.

[henry quirk]

No, the corruption is all from African officials, not from "colonists." Look at Zimbabwe, for example: there, all whites were dispossessed, and how die that work out for the Africans in that country? Of course, Socialism always does that, though Zimbabwe's Socialism was some of the worst anywhere. But you can't blame "colonialism" for it. That's just not plausible.

And in America, a black man became President and was elected by popular vote twice. There, you're admitted to higher education more easily and on lower standards if you're a privileged minority...unless you're Chinese or some other "oriental."

So much for "racism" there. If anything, "affirmative action" makes racism favour the minorities.

Immanuel, you don't know how European colonists governed huge numbers of African people.

Actually, I do. If you had any idea how well knew, you'd probably think twice about declaring such a thing.

Nor do you know that corruption among African big men is facilitated to this day by a few rich men who have a financial stake in African minerals and agriculture.

No, *you're infantilizing the Africans again. They are not helpless fools of Western interests: the bad ones are malicious colluders with them. They know what they're doing to their own people: they just don't care. Over there, tribe and status transcend any national loyalties or identity.

I've lived there. Have you? So who is "naive"?

*cuz she's racist

[Belinda]

No, the corruption is all from African officials, not from "colonists." Look at Zimbabwe, for example: there, all whites were dispossessed, and how die that work out for the Africans in that country? Of course, Socialism always does that, though Zimbabwe's Socialism was some of the worst anywhere. But you can't blame "colonialism" for it. That's just not plausible.

And in America, a black man became President and was elected by popular vote twice. There, you're admitted to higher education more easily and on lower standards if you're a privileged minority...unless you're Chinese or some other "oriental."

So much for "racism" there. If anything, "affirmative action" makes racism favour the minorities.

Immanuel, you don't know how European colonists governed huge numbers of African people.

Actually, I do. If you had any idea how well knew, you'd probably think twice about declaring such a thing.

Nor do you know that corruption among African big men is facilitated to this day by a few rich men who have a financial stake in African minerals and agriculture.

No, you're infantilizing the Africans again. They are not helpless fools of Western interests: the bad ones are malicious colluders with them. They know what they're doing to their own people: they just don't care. Over there, tribe and status transcend any national loyalties or identity.

I've lived there. Have you? So who is "naive"?

Why do they just not care what they are doing to their own people? Answer: because the economy is still one of capitalist extraction of resources for export. You can't have have a welfare state unless profits from natural resources are put to use for the workers who dig and delve.

[Belinda]

Henry Quirk wrote:

[

quote]When American policemen shoot an unarmed black man in his back, and when an American policeman is filmed deliberately suffocating a black man in full public view, that is racism among the police force.

Nope. Mebbe you got two racists. You don't got institutional racism.[/quote]

The policemen do these violent acts in full public view because they don't expect to be brought to justice (or even lose their jobs) for breaking the law.

[henry quirk]

The policemen do these violent acts in full public view because they don't expect to be brought to justice (or even lose their jobs) for breaking the law.

And often they end up in jail.

You're doin' yourself a disservice, B, by takin' individual events and generalizin' 'em.

You believe all cops do wrong, and none face consequences when they do.

That's a lie: you're spreadin' a lie.

There are bad cops, dentists, plumbers, pilots, sculptors, etc. There are racists. But there's no such animal as institutional racism. It does not exist. It drives nuthin' cuz it's a fiction promoted by them professional instigators I talk about upthread and spread by well-meanin' dupes.

[Immanuel Can]

Why do they just not care what they are doing to their own people? Answer: because the economy is still one of capitalist extraction of resources for export.

No.

Because they can enrich themselves and increase their prestige personally, and people from other tribes don't matter. So they will collude with whomever will benefit them, be they corporations, governments, ideologues, or crime lords.

You don't get it: they don't care about "humanity." And they're not "Capitalist." Most are nominally Socialist, like Mugabe, and practically Egocentric or Tribalist, just like Amin.

You don't understand Africa. They're not your European context.