who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

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Iwannaplato
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Iwannaplato »

Advocate wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:57 pm How can one validate the claim to "best philosopher" other than by who has the best philosophy?
The best philosopher need not have some proposed overriding philosophy - for my taste, in any case. It could be the person who inspires, critiques, creates, offers options, leads to new thinking, and so on. IOW they may not produce some best final product, with positions on metaphysics, epistemology and so on, but rather stimulates thinking unblocks it, creates memes and so on.
And how can one validate the claim to have the best philosophy?
Via one's epistemology
Advocate
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Iwannaplato post_id=493973 time=1612267300 user_id=3619]
[quote=Advocate post_id=493588 time=1612105060 user_id=15238]
How can one validate the claim to "best philosopher" other than by who has the best philosophy?
[/quote]
The best philosopher need not have some proposed overriding philosophy - for my taste, in any case. It could be the person who inspires, critiques, creates, offers options, leads to new thinking, and so on. IOW they may not produce some best final product, with positions on metaphysics, epistemology and so on, but rather stimulates thinking unblocks it, creates memes and so on.

[quote]And how can one validate the claim to have the best philosophy?[/quote]Via one's epistemology
[/quote]

It seems that you feel the best philosopher must be a philosophy teacher.
Skepdick
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:37 pm It seems that you feel the best philosopher must be a philosophy teacher.
The bestest philosopher must surely be somebody who can identify the best philosopher?
Advocate
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=493987 time=1612273448 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=493986 time=1612273057 user_id=15238]
It seems that you feel the best philosopher must be a philosophy teacher.
[/quote]
The bestest philosopher must surely be somebody who can identify the best philosopher?
[/quote]

Right, but getting others to recognize that you can identify what you legitimately recognize when they don't have the same tool is a deeper (and fundamentally different) problem. Some even say that "best" excludes an accurate understanding of your best-ness, which is absurd.
Skepdick
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:11 pm Right, but getting others to recognize that you can identify what you legitimately recognize when they don't have the same tool is a deeper (and fundamentally different) problem. Some even say that "best" excludes an accurate understanding of your best-ness, which is absurd.
OK. I recognise you as the best philosopher.

Therefore I am bestest.
Advocate
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=493994 time=1612275721 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=493993 time=1612275073 user_id=15238]
Right, but getting others to recognize that you can identify what you legitimately recognize when they don't have the same tool is a deeper (and fundamentally different) problem. Some even say that "best" excludes an accurate understanding of your best-ness, which is absurd.
[/quote]
OK. I recognise you as the best philosopher.

Therefore I am bestest.
[/quote]

Those aren't actually mutually exclusive. There can be different best philosophers if they have non-overlapping concentrations. I don't play in ethics much or politics really at all.
KLewchuk
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by KLewchuk »

Advocate wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:57 pm How can one validate the claim to "best philosopher" other than by who has the best philosophy?

And how can one validate the claim to have the best philosophy?
Best, one of the Greeks. Worst, a Frenchman.

How do we evaluate? What ideas have been the most beneficial for well-being (ooops, must be Aristotle) :-)
Advocate
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Advocate »

[quote=KLewchuk post_id=494394 time=1612487582 user_id=20039]
How do we evaluate? What ideas have been the most beneficial for well-being (ooops, must be Aristotle) :-)
[/quote]

I think we must separate the attribute of efficacy due to circumstantial constraints. Many greats have languished, not discovered to be so in their own time.
Age
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Age »

Who is the best 'philosopher' depends on how 'you' define the word 'philosopher' here.

The best 'philosopher' to me is the youngest of the species, human being.

This is because, to me, the word 'philosopher' just means the one with A love-of-wisdom. And the ones with A love-of-wisdom, in the Truest sense, to me, are the ones who are Truly OPEN and CURIOUS, and they are the ones who have NOT YET been adulterated NOR indoctrinated with False, Wrong, nor Incorrect ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS.

As for 'you', "advocate", being a philosopher, let alone the best philosopher, then you have ALREADY SHOWN and PROVEN to NOT BE the case AT ALL.
Advocate
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Age post_id=494466 time=1612499953 user_id=16237]
Who is the best 'philosopher' depends on how 'you' define the word 'philosopher' here.

The best 'philosopher' to me is the youngest of the species, human being.

This is because, to me, the word 'philosopher' just means the one with A love-of-wisdom. And the ones with A love-of-wisdom, in the Truest sense, to me, are the ones who are Truly OPEN and CURIOUS, and they are the ones who have NOT YET been adulterated NOR indoctrinated with False, Wrong, nor Incorrect ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS.

As for 'you', "advocate", being a philosopher, let alone the best philosopher, then you have ALREADY SHOWN and PROVEN to NOT BE the case AT ALL.
[/quote]

Remaining open after you've learned better isn't a virtue, but other than that, your criteria fit me perfectly. And anyhow, it's possible for someone to be indoctrinated and then learn better and be better for it than those who never have to wrestle with the problem.
Age
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Age »

Advocate wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:43 am
Age wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:39 am Who is the best 'philosopher' depends on how 'you' define the word 'philosopher' here.

The best 'philosopher' to me is the youngest of the species, human being.

This is because, to me, the word 'philosopher' just means the one with A love-of-wisdom. And the ones with A love-of-wisdom, in the Truest sense, to me, are the ones who are Truly OPEN and CURIOUS, and they are the ones who have NOT YET been adulterated NOR indoctrinated with False, Wrong, nor Incorrect ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS.

As for 'you', "advocate", being a philosopher, let alone the best philosopher, then you have ALREADY SHOWN and PROVEN to NOT BE the case AT ALL.
Remaining open after you've learned better isn't a virtue, but other than that, your criteria fit me perfectly.
But 'you', "advocate", have FAILED to SHOW that you are Truly OPEN and CURIOUS. Well to me anyway.

In fact, you have alluded to the fact that you BELIEVE that 'you', "advocate", are the best philosopher, and with the best philosophy. Or, have I got this WRONG here?
Advocate wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:43 am And anyhow, it's possible for someone to be indoctrinated and then learn better and be better for it than those who never have to wrestle with the problem.
OF COURSE, someone can be indoctrinated into some 'thing', but then realize that 'that' was completely or partly False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, and so THEN be able to learn more and/or anew (better). But while you are 'indoctrinated' into 'that' what IS False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, then you are OBVIOUSLY NOT OPEN and NOT CURIOUS to ANY thing other than 'that', what 'you' BELIEVE is true, right, and/or correct.
Advocate
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Re: who is the best philosopher? (it's me)

Post by Advocate »

>>But 'you', "advocate", have FAILED to SHOW that you are Truly OPEN and CURIOUS. Well to me anyway.

Openness is only a valid criteria for areas in which you are not already more expert than the information you'd otherwise be open to. It is not a valid criteria at large. The best philosopher cannot be open to Ayn Rand's philosophy. The best philosopher cannot be open to the idea that murder can be ethically progressive. And so forth.

But as to me personally, i'm not making a case here that i'm the best philosopher, which is incidentally true, but that it is possible to know what the best criteria are, as indicated above. The attributes of a best philosopher are incidental to having the best philosophy. The attributes for "best philosopher" must not exclude whoever has the best philosophy. You're putting the cart before the horse, really.

When one was open enough long enough, they'll have sufficient information to no longer need to be open. To be curious enough long enough, they'll have gathered enough information to be expert in their field, no longer curious about those things. So, your criteria, while desirable in general cannot be necessary attributes of the best philosopher particularly. They must be open and curious in Some respect, in order to allow in potential (hypothetical) new information, but that's not about what they know already at all.

>>In fact, you have alluded to the fact that you BELIEVE that 'you', "advocate", are the best philosopher, and with the best philosophy. Or, have I got this WRONG here?

I believe that the former point intrinsically attains from the latter, and the latter can be better supported with respect to myself than any other philosopher of whom i'm aware. But again, this thread is supposed to be about the sufficiency of those attributes and arguments, not who they're specifically applicable to.

>>OF COURSE, someone can be indoctrinated into some 'thing', but then realize that 'that' was completely or partly False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, and so THEN be able to learn more and/or anew (better). But while you are 'indoctrinated' into 'that' [i]what IS[/i] False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect, then you are OBVIOUSLY NOT OPEN and NOT CURIOUS to ANY thing other than 'that', what 'you' BELIEVE is true, right, and/or correct.

Everyone is indoctrinated as a child. To overcome it can be considered a necessary attribute of a good philosopher, but to have avoided that conundrum cannot, is my point.

The degree to which i am not open is the degree to which i can prove my case sufficiently for all intents and purposes as it already is. There's no reason to be open when what you've already got is both necessary and sufficient, so while openness per-se is obviously a criteria for Becoming a good philosopher, it cannot be a valid criteria for Being the best philosopher.

As for curiosity, i'll merely point out that this document (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 6y_pfCpYg/) adequately proves my commitment to curiosity, as if it were even legitimately questionable. And this one (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xbz ... Bmb2sl0do/) shows how i've integrated ideas from the entire spectrum of philosophy - which proves sufficient openness.
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