Meaning of 'Islam'?

[Veritas Aequitas]

You are STILL incapable of, or unwilling to, write down just one verse, and explain where YOU see the evil intent in it, so that we can look at and discuss. The reason for this is completely obvious to most of us here.

Changing topics and trying to move on does NOT help your case at all.

Hey! who is changing tune.
First you ask for one or as many verses there is.
When I provide the thousands of verses, then now you insist on one i.e. just one.

You STILL do NOT get it. I am still asking you to provide at least one, or as many as you like, verses but the part you are NOT understanding is I want you to also provide what it IS in the verse that you interpret, or see, as being evil.

The point is, it is very misleading to focus on one verse to justify why the Quran is laden with evil elements.

I have provided you a list of 3000++ verses that support the point of the ideology of Islam that identify and condemned very strongly the 'outgroup' i.e. comprising the disbelievers, non-Muslims, the kafir, Christian, Jews, Muslims hypocrites, etc.
The concept of the outgroup arise from the instinct of tribalism which had given rise to terrible evil and violence in the religious and secular aspects.

This point of condemning the 'outgroup' [us versus them] in the most severest terms is an element/theme of evil that has the highest potential of genocides.

Note Chapter 1 of the conventional Quran which is repeated by each Muslim up to 18 times a day in their prayers [up to 5] (note brainwashing) where 1:7 contain implicitness of the 'outgroup'.

• Pickthall
  1:7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
  
  Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali
  1:7 The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

In the Pickthall translation any Muslim would definitely wonder, who the hell are the ones that had angered God and were astray as these are potential threats to their religion.

The Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali translation is more explicit by identifying the culprits and they support their point from the whole contexts of the Quran. See their footnotes of explanation in their full copy.

Then immediately in Chapter 2, verses 6 -20 Allah shoots a barrage of condemnations on the out-group, i.e. those who disbelievers;

2:6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
2:8 And of mankind are some who say: We believe in Allah and the Last Day, when they believe not.
2:9 They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.
2:10 In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
2:11 And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.
2:12 Are not they indeed the mischief-makers? But they perceive not.
2:13 And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: shall we believe as the foolish believe? are not they indeed the foolish? But they know not.
2:14 And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock.
2:15 Allah (Himself) doth mock them, leaving them to wander blindly on in their contumacy.
2:16 These are they who purchase error at the price of guidance, so their commerce doth not prosper, neither are they guided.
2:17 Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see,
2:18 Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.
2:19 Or like a rainstorm from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder and the flash of lightning. They thrust their fingers in their ears by reason of the thunder-claps, for fear of death, Allah encompasseth the disbelievers (in His guidance, His omniscience and His omnipotence).
2:20 The lightning almost snatcheth away their sight from them. As often as it flasheth forth for them they walk therein, and when it darkeneth against them they stand still. If Allah willed, He could destroy their hearing and their sight. Lo! Allah is able to do all things.

If the above are not condemnations of the out-group, then what are they? peace-loving words to non-believers??

Note believers [Muslims] are in a desperate existential psychological state to ensure salvation and they will be very sensitive and wary to threats.
Now Allah has identified who are the threats, i.e. the condemned 'outgroup' in 3000+ verses in the Quran, they will be very mindful of these in the outgroup and be sensitive to them.
In addition, in the Quran Allah condones the killing of the 'outgroup' in certain circumstances which are vaguely defined.

Not all brainwashed Muslims will be aggressive in defending the threats, but if only 20% [conservatively] are evil prone that is a pool of 300 million evil prone Muslim in readiness to unleash their evil deeds. The evidence of this is so real and evident.

I get your point but,
I am not interested in focusing only on one verses.
My emphasis is on the full contexts of the Quran and the respective evil themes as supported by various groups of verses.

So my point is I have presented to you one main theme [among 100s] of evil within the Quran that is supported by 3000++ verses out of 6236 verses of the whole the Quran. I have given you examples [only as examples] of 1:7 implicit and 2:6-20 explicit indication of identification of the 'outgroup' as a threat to the religion of Islam.
One verse on the 'outgroup' may seem innocent and unthreatening but 3000++ is shocking and will have a great impact on the psychological state of SOME evil prone believers.

Note I have 100s of other evil themes [more serious ones] which are supported by x number of verses.

Note I provided the necessary links and you need to read the notes in the introductory part to get the point.

Are you still so blinded that you can NOT yet see that anyone can interpret any thing in any way?. The reason people interpret the wrong the message from what was the actually message intended is because of previously held views and beliefs.

Don't think I am that stupid.
The average person can understand easily there are all sorts of people with intellectual competency and will interpret things [words, events, perception, etc] in a variety of ways.

Allah had stated the Quran was prepared to be easily understood, note Surah Qamar 54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40.

No Muslim would dare to change and misinterpret the words of Allah, else they will go to hell.
I have asked many times, who are you or any one on earth to judge the interpretation of Muslims and others when the Quran is easy to understand. Only Allah can judge a believer, but Allah in reality is an impossibility.

People, like yourself, who strongly and dearly hold onto your previously gained views and beliefs look for things that confirm your biases. Therefore, that is the reason you provide only the things that you do.

My approach to the critique of the Quran is very OBJECTIVE i.e. from the empirical evidence of real evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims who justify their evil acts by quoting the Quran, i.e. words of Allah.
This is an obvious correlation and I have proven the actual cause from this correlation, i.e. tracing to the evil elements inherent in the Quran.

If* you are a Muslim, you would have a greater existential stake to Confirmation Bias based on the promise of salvation & avoiding Hell and interpret whatever verses to ensure salvation even to the extent of lying if need to [tagiyya].
*Why you are such a coward in not being able to confirm whether you are a Muslim or not?

The so called "necessary links" are in fact NOT necessary at all, and are only "necessary" in that to you they support your current biased views. There is NO "need" to read the notes to gain the true and right perspective of things. Those so called "necessary links" and those you want us to read in the introductory part, to get the point, which you want us to see and agree with come from an already distorted and biased viewpoint already. They are just a few people's interpretation. They are NOT true and factual points of any thing at all. If you still can NOT see that you are writing your own narrative, and just using other people's perspectives and distorted views, which fit in with your own distorted views, and which then further confirms your own biases, then I do not know what will make you see what is actually happening here.

Btw do you understand the protocols of intellectual discussions and debates.
Obviously I have to provide supporting evidence for my claims which must be understood but not necessary agree with.
You are insulting your own intellectual competence by brushing off my supporting evidence without countering the truths of my claims.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Now for the next seven words. "unfortunately born with an active evil tendency".

To suggest that some human beings are born one way and others are not is also foolishness at the highest degree.

To use the word "unfortunately" implies a sense of superiority, which YOU certainly do NOT possess.
Where is the proof that any one is born with an active evil tendency? Where is the proof that any one is born with an evil tendency, active or not?

What do YOU mean by 'evil'? Where is this supposed 'tendency' for evil actually located within the human body? How can YOU tell the difference of who is born with this "evil tendency" that could be active or not active, and who is not born with it? There are a few more questions just in relation to these seven words but I will leave it for now.

When you clear up and clarify all of this, then we can move on.

I had defined evil many time all over the forum.

I define 'evil' as the essence of any human act or thought that is net-negative to the well-being of the individual itself, other individuals or groups and humanity.

note my concept of evil had nothing to do with ontological or theological evil, e.g. Satan, syaitan, the devil etc.

Note this thread;
Do Not Blame Muslims!
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24842

We cannot blame Muslims and even those* who committed the evil and violent acts because they were unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.
It has nothing to do with superiority but rather empathy and compassion.
I have stated approx 20% of all humans are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.
* we don't blame the evil doers directly but they have to be accounted for in accordance to the laws of the land.

Thus the focus should be on the root causes that trigger the unfortunately-borned-evil-person to commit evil and violent act. This is why we censor evil elements from the media, movies [PG ratings], sports, computer games, etc. This is why we must realize the Quran contain evil laden elements that trigger and compel the evil prone to commit terrible evil acts [supported by evident facts].

One example of those who are born with an active evil tendency are the psychopaths which is stated to be 1% of all human beings. see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDVaiwzU8yc&t=248s
There is a certain numbers who become psychopaths mainly due to nurturing factors.
There are those who are born with potential to very sensitive to rage and get violent easily.
Note the kleptomaniacs, the sex rapists, etc.

The tendency to commit evils is represented by a certain state of neural connectivity in the brain which are active or can be activated upon various triggers e.g. evil elements in media, movies and religious texts like the Quran.

The root causes of religious related evil and violence are the following;

• 1. DNA and natural evil tendency in the brain/mind
  2. Evil laden elements in religious texts

It is very difficult to change and mess with the DNA and brain connectivity but it is easier to deal with an ideology that is evil laden.
This is why it is so critical to expose the evil laden elements in the Quran which many are naturally covering up or failed to see the 500 pound gorilla due to confirmation bias.

[Age]

Hey! who is changing tune.
First you ask for one or as many verses there is.
When I provide the thousands of verses, then now you insist on one i.e. just one.

You STILL do NOT get it. I am still asking you to provide at least one, or as many as you like, verses but the part you are NOT understanding is I want you to also provide what it IS in the verse that you interpret, or see, as being evil.

The point is, it is very misleading to focus on one verse to justify why the Quran is laden with evil elements.

I have provided you a list of 3000++ verses that support the point of the ideology of Islam that identify and condemned very strongly the 'outgroup' i.e. comprising the disbelievers, non-Muslims, the kafir, Christian, Jews, Muslims hypocrites, etc.
The concept of the outgroup arise from the instinct of tribalism which had given rise to terrible evil and violence in the religious and secular aspects.

This point of condemning the 'outgroup' [us versus them] in the most severest terms is an element/theme of evil that has the highest potential of genocides.

Note Chapter 1 of the conventional Quran which is repeated by each Muslim up to 18 times a day in their prayers [up to 5] (note brainwashing) where 1:7 contain implicitness of the 'outgroup'.

• Pickthall
  1:7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
  
  Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali
  1:7 The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

In the Pickthall translation any Muslim would definitely wonder, who the hell are the ones that had angered God and were astray as these are potential threats to their religion.

The Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali translation is more explicit by identifying the culprits and they support their point from the whole contexts of the Quran. See their footnotes of explanation in their full copy.

Then immediately in Chapter 2, verses 6 -20 Allah shoots a barrage of condemnations on the out-group, i.e. those who disbelievers;

2:6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
2:8 And of mankind are some who say: We believe in Allah and the Last Day, when they believe not.
2:9 They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.
2:10 In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
2:11 And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.
2:12 Are not they indeed the mischief-makers? But they perceive not.
2:13 And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: shall we believe as the foolish believe? are not they indeed the foolish? But they know not.
2:14 And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock.
2:15 Allah (Himself) doth mock them, leaving them to wander blindly on in their contumacy.
2:16 These are they who purchase error at the price of guidance, so their commerce doth not prosper, neither are they guided.
2:17 Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see,
2:18 Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.
2:19 Or like a rainstorm from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder and the flash of lightning. They thrust their fingers in their ears by reason of the thunder-claps, for fear of death, Allah encompasseth the disbelievers (in His guidance, His omniscience and His omnipotence).
2:20 The lightning almost snatcheth away their sight from them. As often as it flasheth forth for them they walk therein, and when it darkeneth against them they stand still. If Allah willed, He could destroy their hearing and their sight. Lo! Allah is able to do all things.

If the above are not condemnations of the out-group, then what are they? peace-loving words to non-believers??

Note believers [Muslims] are in a desperate existential psychological state to ensure salvation and they will be very sensitive and wary to threats.
Now Allah has identified who are the threats, i.e. the condemned 'outgroup' in 3000+ verses in the Quran, they will be very mindful of these in the outgroup and be sensitive to them.
In addition, in the Quran Allah condones the killing of the 'outgroup' in certain circumstances which are vaguely defined.

Not all brainwashed Muslims will be aggressive in defending the threats, but if only 20% [conservatively] are evil prone that is a pool of 300 million evil prone Muslim in readiness to unleash their evil deeds. The evidence of this is so real and evident.

I get your point but,
I am not interested in focusing only on one verses.
My emphasis is on the full contexts of the Quran and the respective evil themes as supported by various groups of verses.

So my point is I have presented to you one main theme [among 100s] of evil within the Quran that is supported by 3000++ verses out of 6236 verses of the whole the Quran. I have given you examples [only as examples] of 1:7 implicit and 2:6-20 explicit indication of identification of the 'outgroup' as a threat to the religion of Islam.
One verse on the 'outgroup' may seem innocent and unthreatening but 3000++ is shocking and will have a great impact on the psychological state of SOME evil prone believers.

Note I have 100s of other evil themes [more serious ones] which are supported by x number of verses.

Note I provided the necessary links and you need to read the notes in the introductory part to get the point.

Are you still so blinded that you can NOT yet see that anyone can interpret any thing in any way?. The reason people interpret the wrong the message from what was the actually message intended is because of previously held views and beliefs.

Don't think I am that stupid.
The average person can understand easily there are all sorts of people with intellectual competency and will interpret things [words, events, perception, etc] in a variety of ways.

Allah had stated the Quran was prepared to be easily understood, note Surah Qamar 54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40.

No Muslim would dare to change and misinterpret the words of Allah, else they will go to hell.
I have asked many times, who are you or any one on earth to judge the interpretation of Muslims and others when the Quran is easy to understand. Only Allah can judge a believer, but Allah in reality is an impossibility.

People, like yourself, who strongly and dearly hold onto your previously gained views and beliefs look for things that confirm your biases. Therefore, that is the reason you provide only the things that you do.

My approach to the critique of the Quran is very OBJECTIVE i.e. from the empirical evidence of real evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims who justify their evil acts by quoting the Quran, i.e. words of Allah.
This is an obvious correlation and I have proven the actual cause from this correlation, i.e. tracing to the evil elements inherent in the Quran.

If* you are a Muslim, you would have a greater existential stake to Confirmation Bias based on the promise of salvation & avoiding Hell and interpret whatever verses to ensure salvation even to the extent of lying if need to [tagiyya].
*Why you are such a coward in not being able to confirm whether you are a Muslim or not?

The so called "necessary links" are in fact NOT necessary at all, and are only "necessary" in that to you they support your current biased views. There is NO "need" to read the notes to gain the true and right perspective of things. Those so called "necessary links" and those you want us to read in the introductory part, to get the point, which you want us to see and agree with come from an already distorted and biased viewpoint already. They are just a few people's interpretation. They are NOT true and factual points of any thing at all. If you still can NOT see that you are writing your own narrative, and just using other people's perspectives and distorted views, which fit in with your own distorted views, and which then further confirms your own biases, then I do not know what will make you see what is actually happening here.

Btw do you understand the protocols of intellectual discussions and debates.
Obviously I have to provide supporting evidence for my claims which must be understood but not necessary agree with.
You are insulting your own intellectual competence by brushing off my supporting evidence without countering the truths of my claims.

The so called "truths of your claims" are NOT truths. They are instead only YOUR interpretations.

You have once again completely missed my point. So, I will state it again, direct me to where YOU see the evil intent in the writings. Just saying the evil intent is obvious or similar is NOT providing supporting evidence at all.

When you are able to correctly answer the question 'Who am I?, then you will KNOW who I am. I do not see how I am meant to be a coward by not yet answering your ridiculous question about if I am a muslim or not. I have already asked you to define 'muslim' so that I could answer your question correctly, but you failed to do that. Does that mean you are a coward? If so, then please enlighten us. I do not yet see the correspondence between not answering a question and being a so called coward.

If the so called 'average person' can easily understand the so called 'evil intent' behind the ideology of islam, then why do the majority of people who are a lot closer to islam, than others are, see that the ideology of islam is peace?

There would easily be over a hundred other things I could question you about, or ask you to explain much clearer, here, but I refrain from doing so.

I have already TOLD you that it is extremely simple to kill a person without injuring a human body. So, any thing that refers to kill people, or killing non-believers, or killing non-muslims has NOTHING at all to do with evil and violent acts towards any body. The 'enemy' that NEEDS to be killed in the one that is inside your own head. But at the rate you are going now you are still many many years away from understanding this.

[Age]

Now for the next seven words. "unfortunately born with an active evil tendency".

To suggest that some human beings are born one way and others are not is also foolishness at the highest degree.

To use the word "unfortunately" implies a sense of superiority, which YOU certainly do NOT possess.
Where is the proof that any one is born with an active evil tendency? Where is the proof that any one is born with an evil tendency, active or not?

What do YOU mean by 'evil'? Where is this supposed 'tendency' for evil actually located within the human body? How can YOU tell the difference of who is born with this "evil tendency" that could be active or not active, and who is not born with it? There are a few more questions just in relation to these seven words but I will leave it for now.

When you clear up and clarify all of this, then we can move on.

I had defined evil many time all over the forum.

I define 'evil' as the essence of any human act or thought that is net-negative to the well-being of the individual itself, other individuals or groups and humanity.

I do not care how you define 'evil' for now. That was NOT one of the questions that I asked you to clarify for me.

note my concept of evil had nothing to do with ontological or theological evil, e.g. Satan, syaitan, the devil etc.

Well if you are going to think about and talk about the ideology behind a religion as being evil, then i suggest that it may be better for you to think about and talk about 'evil' from the concept of the theological evil.

If you are going to define 'evil' from YOUR concept, then obviously that might not have anything at all to do with the concept that is being talk about in the religious context, which is what you are looking at and wanting to refer to here.

Just something to think about.

Note this thread;
Do Not Blame Muslims!
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24842

We cannot blame Muslims and even those* who committed the evil and violent acts because they were unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.
It has nothing to do with superiority but rather empathy and compassion.

Do you really think or believe that you are coming across as rather empathetic and compassionate here?

If so, then the truth is really the exact opposite.

I have stated approx 20% of all humans are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.
* we don't blame the evil doers directly but they have to be accounted for in accordance to the laws of the land.

I asked you for evidence of this. Where is that evidence?

Note you have NOT yet answered any of MY above questions.

Thus the focus should be on the root causes that trigger the unfortunately-borned-evil-person to commit evil and violent act. This is why we censor evil elements from the media, movies [PG ratings], sports, computer games, etc. This is why we must realize the Quran contain evil laden elements that trigger and compel the evil prone to commit terrible evil acts [supported by evident facts].

Your logic does NOT even follower, let alone your beliefs even making any sense to truth and reality. What you believe is true, and thus a premise, is not even close to being the actual truth. Your arguments are unsound and invalid.

But that is what usually happens when people try to make up a truth, which they are trying to fit in with their already gained and strongly held beliefs. The logic usually will NOT follow.

One example of those who are born with an active evil tendency are the psychopaths which is stated to be 1% of all human beings. see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDVaiwzU8yc&t=248s
There is a certain numbers who become psychopaths mainly due to nurturing factors.
There are those who are born with potential to very sensitive to rage and get violent easily.
Note the kleptomaniacs, the sex rapists, etc.

WHERE is the evidence that psychopaths are born with an active evil tendency?

Where, in fact, is the active evil tendency?

Can people be born with an evil tendency but not an active evil tendency? What is the actual difference?

Can you really NOT see the absolute stupid and foolish way you write?

The more you speak the more you are leaving open to be questioned.

What is the certain number, who become psychopaths mainly due to nurturing factors? What factors are they? How do you know the difference between a so called psychopath born with an active evil tendency and one who becomes one mainly due to nurturing factors?

Who are those who are born with potential to very sensitive to rage and get violent easily? What is the percentage? How do you define the difference between with potential and without potential? How do you know the difference between being very sensitive to rage and get violent easy and those who are not? How do you define between get violent easy and not get violent as easily? There could be an hundred or so questions just here for clarification. Are you going to answer any of these questions, this time?

What has saying, "Note the kleptomaniacs, the sex rapists, etc." got to do with anything at all?

The tendency to commit evils is represented by a certain state of neural connectivity in the brain which are active or can be activated upon various triggers e.g. evil elements in media, movies and religious texts like the Quran.

The root causes of religious related evil and violence are the following;

• 1. DNA and natural evil tendency in the brain/mind
  2. Evil laden elements in religious texts

It is very difficult to change and mess with the DNA and brain connectivity but it is easier to deal with an ideology that is evil laden.
This is why it is so critical to expose the evil laden elements in the Quran which many are naturally covering up or failed to see the 500 pound gorilla due to confirmation bias.

You have absolutely no idea at all that your words are in fact evil laden whereas the quran might not be all, which is perfect as I can use you and your words to show as proof. The more you want to keep insisting you are 100% correct, then the more evidence you are providing Me.

Misjudging others and their writings, which does cause more friction and hatred in the world, could be seen as evil at its worst. Your own words could well be the very proof of this fact. By your own definition of 'evil', being an act or thought that is net-negative to the well-being of the individual itself, other individuals or groups and humanity, you are showing more evil than I can see in the quran.

But then again, as I have already stated, any thing can be seen in any thing. It is ALL relative to the observer. For example, if you want to judge others, and their writings, and see in them, and their writings, then you will see it.

[Veritas Aequitas]

The so called "truths of your claims" are NOT truths. They are instead only YOUR interpretations.

As I had stated what I claimed is based on empirical truths and facts.
It is a fact there are SOME [critical number] of Muslim who commit terrible evil and violent acts on non-Muslims by justifying they are carrying out their divine duty in accordance to the words of God in the Quran.

There are thousands or perhaps million+ of examples out there.
Here is one where Bin Laden quoted from the Quran to justify his divine right to kill Americans as non-Muslims.

Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/ ... heobserver

My point, you and no one DO NOT have the authority to insist Bin Laden's interpretation is wrong where Bin Laden has loads of Islamic experts to advise and support his cause.

You have once again completely missed my point. So, I will state it again, direct me to where YOU see the evil intent in the writings. Just saying the evil intent is obvious or similar is NOT providing supporting evidence at all.

I have already stated the basic pathos of Islam is leveraging on directing very aggressive negative and condemnation of the outgroup, i.e. the non-Muslims.
This is already a very serious evil element and I have provided the supporting evidence from 3000++ verses from the Quran.
What I have not ventured into is the detailed specific 100s of evil elements within this 3000++ verses.

Note this 10 stages for genocides, where 'us versus them' IS the main starting reason;

The Ten Stages of Genocide
1. CLASSIFICATION: All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide.
...
http://genocidewatch.net/genocide-2/8-s ... -genocide/

The Quran focus mainly on this theme of evil re us versus them, i.e. the outgroup to be condemned and exterminated where need to.

However the world is so blind to the Quran where there is the worst of the primal 'us versus them' where non-Muslims are dehumanized [as apes, swines, asses, worst creatures, etc.] and condemned with the most derogatory and pejorative terms. In addition believers are goaded to suppress and kill non-Muslims as the outgroup that deserved such humiliation merely because they are disbelievers.

When you are able to correctly answer the question 'Who am I?, then you will KNOW who I am. I do not see how I am meant to be a coward by not yet answering your ridiculous question about if I am a muslim or not. I have already asked you to define 'muslim' so that I could answer your question correctly, but you failed to do that. Does that mean you are a coward? If so, then please enlighten us. I do not yet see the correspondence between not answering a question and being a so called coward.

Note I am at present discussing 'Who am I' at the highest and refine level with DontAskMe in the other posts.

I have already defined the basic and conventional definition of 'Who is a Muslim' and is one who must comply with the 5 pillars of Islam. Note there is also a higher level Mushin one who has comply with the 6 pillars of Iman and higher still the state of Tagwa.
To achieve the higher states of Islam, a believer must be more serious and comply to more of the commands of Allah within the Quran, especially those elements that cause most damage to the non-believers who are threat to the religion.

If the so called 'average person' can easily understand the so called 'evil intent' behind the ideology of islam, then why do the majority of people who are a lot closer to islam, than others are, see that the ideology of islam is peace?

I have already explained;
20% [conservatively] of all humans and thus 20% of Muslim are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.
The majority 80% who do not have an active evil tendency will not be inclined to commit evil except some in various circumstances.
The Quran was originally compiled by a group of evil prone people thus the pathos of evil inherent in the Quran.
The majority whose only concern is salvation of their soul to eternal life will not go along with the evil elements and thus turn a blind eye [consciously or subconsciously] to the evil elements. Note 'the 500 pound gorilla in the room' effect.

There would easily be over a hundred other things I could question you about, or ask you to explain much clearer, here, but I refrain from doing so.

The truth must prevail thus you should not stop if you have doubts to the points I raised.

I have already TOLD you that it is extremely simple to kill a person without injuring a human body. So, any thing that refers to kill people, or killing non-believers, or killing non-muslims has NOTHING at all to do with evil and violent acts towards any body. The 'enemy' that NEEDS to be killed in the one that is inside your own head. But at the rate you are going now you are still many many years away from understanding this.

Don't harp on kindergarten stuff.
Who do not know it is extremely simple to kill a person without injuring a human body?

Why are so blind to what I have explained?
All humans has the potential and appx 20% are born with an active evil tendency and in general these people kill and main when triggered by external evil laden evil elements.

It is so obvious there are evil laden elements [evidence provided] in the Quran that triggered some evil laden Muslims to carry out certain divine acts to please God so as to be ensured eternal life in Paradise and avoid Hell, where the real consequences turned out to be real terrible evil and violence to humanity.

Note Abraham who was under the spell of such evil elements was willing to sacrifice his own son to be killed. This is why some parents are willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters as suicide bombers as merit to please God [some hope Allah will intervene like as in the case of Abraham]. Now who are you to insist they are wrong when such an example is in the holy texts from God.

[Age]

Now who are you to insist they are wrong when such an example is in the holy texts from God.

If and when you KNOW who I am (and who you are), then you will KNOW the answer.

You still have absolutely NO idea what the holy texts from God are.

You do NOT even know who/what God is yet, let alone be able to decipher the holy texts correctly.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Now who are you to insist they are wrong when such an example is in the holy texts from God.

If and when you KNOW who I am (and who you are), then you will KNOW the answer.

You still have absolutely NO idea what the holy texts from God are.

You do NOT even know who/what God is yet, let alone be able to decipher the holy texts correctly.

Playing with the mud in la la LAND will not get you anywhere.
So far you are merely presenting fanciful words without substance.
Throw in some statement of substance without justified groundings.

[Age]

Now who are you to insist they are wrong when such an example is in the holy texts from God.

If and when you KNOW who I am (and who you are), then you will KNOW the answer.

You still have absolutely NO idea what the holy texts from God are.

You do NOT even know who/what God is yet, let alone be able to decipher the holy texts correctly.

Playing with the mud in la la LAND will not get you anywhere.

I have already gotten where I wanted to get, you. Your words are what I am seeking. Like I suggested earlier the more you speak, then the more evidence you provide for me, and then the further I get.

So far you are merely presenting fanciful words without substance.

That is what I have said you are doing. Just saying the ideology of islam is evil, does not mean any thing. Without any evidence, you are just sprouting your own beliefs, as though it is the truth, without any substance.

I purposely present "fanciful" words to you, to evoke the response that I want, and get from you. You happily provide that which I seek.

Throw in some statement of substance without justified groundings.

You claim some thing; that is, the ideology of islam is evil, now prove it.

Kill your enemies, in the context of how it is written, IS NOT evil.

Kill the non-believers, non-muslime, in the context of how it is written, IS NOT evil.

In fact doing these things, correctly, leads to a truly peaceful and harmonious world.

But, at the moment, you are completely incapable of understanding this. Am I correct?

[Veritas Aequitas]

I purposely present "fanciful" words to you, to evoke the response that I want, and get from you. You happily provide that which I seek.

It is so easily to provoke another. I could say something nasty about your near kin and you will definitely be provoked. I will not be responding unless you provide something of substance that is not provocative.

[Age]

I purposely present "fanciful" words to you, to evoke the response that I want, and get from you. You happily provide that which I seek.

It is so easily to provoke another. I could say something nasty about your near kin and you will definitely be provoked. I will not be responding unless you provide something of substance that is not provocative.

There is nothing you could say about anyone to me that would provoke me, in the way you think that it would. Once again you obviously completely misunderstood what I am talking about. You can not yet see that I am USING you because I KNOW you will write particular things, so that I can prove how SOME people are so utterly stupid because they look from and express only from their distorted and strongly held beliefs.

I have provided things of substance;
That is you are unwilling and/or incapable of providing any evidence whatsoever that the ideology of islam is evil.
I have already explained that it is possible to kill one's enemies without harming, hurting, nor injuring any part of the human body.
You have absolutely NO understanding of what this could possible mean. That is because;
You only look for things that fit in with your distorted views and beliefs.
You only see and understand things that fit in with your distorted views and beliefs.
You are unable to see the truth of things because of your distorted views and beliefs.

Your beliefs have completely prevented you from having any intelligence whatsoever.

[gaffo]

Your above thoughts are very messy.

clear enough to follow - body count is body count - terrorist is terrorist.

its simple.

Hindus topped the scales from 1980 t0 2003.

yet your panties are not in a bunch over Hindus - faux news not tell you to fear The Hindus? bubba.

The Tamil tigers in Sri Langka were not motivated by their religion to kill but they were fighting a political war to claim land rights.

non-sequitur.

we are do here - you are a Foxbat, place your fearbased bushit about Islam over reason debate. I will no longer play you game.

I reasonably discussed the historical facts about Tamil Tigers - and you negate the fact and go on a goosechase about a verse in the Koran (I've not read the Mubararatta, nor the Vig Veda, nor the Texts of Mani (have you? ) they may or may not have a verse or two identical to that in the Koran (its a head harring - and I'm quiting your bullshit game - death/killing is death/killing - and a terrorist is a terrorist regardless of their faith/verses or not support the acts of said persons).


BTW "christ said I am not to bring peace but a sword, brother agaist father, father against son" (not into bullshit quote wars - nor remorized such - so paraphrasing (Mark?).

i'm done talking to you - you are not objective, nor wish to be nor learn. you are here to soapbox your fear and ignorance of Islam - I have no interest in coddling your fears/ignorance.

goodbye.

[Veritas Aequitas]

I purposely present "fanciful" words to you, to evoke the response that I want, and get from you. You happily provide that which I seek.

It is so easily to provoke another. I could say something nasty about your near kin and you will definitely be provoked. I will not be responding unless you provide something of substance that is not provocative.

There is nothing you could say about anyone to me that would provoke me, in the way you think that it would. Once again you obviously completely misunderstood what I am talking about. You can not yet see that I am USING you because I KNOW you will write particular things, so that I can prove how SOME people are so utterly stupid because they look from and express only from their distorted and strongly held beliefs.

I have provided things of substance;
That is you are unwilling and/or incapable of providing any evidence whatsoever that the ideology of islam is evil.
I have already explained that it is possible to kill one's enemies without harming, hurting, nor injuring any part of the human body.
You have absolutely NO understanding of what this could possible mean. That is because;
You only look for things that fit in with your distorted views and beliefs.
You only see and understand things that fit in with your distorted views and beliefs.
You are unable to see the truth of things because of your distorted views and beliefs.

Your beliefs have completely prevented you from having any intelligence whatsoever.

Intelligence??
What you have done is blabbering your secret/cryptic thoughts that you clung tightly to but provided no reasonable arguments at all. Don't forget this is a Philosophy Forum where the norms is a discussion/debate/countering of propositions and arguments.
Yours is like a tennis game where you merely swing the racket but not hitting the ball in return.

You avoided to counter my views appropriately.
You have also avoided the critical questions I raised.

I have already explained that it is possible to kill one's enemies without harming, hurting, nor injuring any part of the human body.

What do you keep harping on this kindergarten stuff?

[Age]

It is so easily to provoke another. I could say something nasty about your near kin and you will definitely be provoked. I will not be responding unless you provide something of substance that is not provocative.

There is nothing you could say about anyone to me that would provoke me, in the way you think that it would. Once again you obviously completely misunderstood what I am talking about. You can not yet see that I am USING you because I KNOW you will write particular things, so that I can prove how SOME people are so utterly stupid because they look from and express only from their distorted and strongly held beliefs.

I have provided things of substance;
That is you are unwilling and/or incapable of providing any evidence whatsoever that the ideology of islam is evil.
I have already explained that it is possible to kill one's enemies without harming, hurting, nor injuring any part of the human body.
You have absolutely NO understanding of what this could possible mean. That is because;
You only look for things that fit in with your distorted views and beliefs.
You only see and understand things that fit in with your distorted views and beliefs.
You are unable to see the truth of things because of your distorted views and beliefs.

Your beliefs have completely prevented you from having any intelligence whatsoever.

Intelligence??
What you have done is blabbering your secret/cryptic thoughts that you clung tightly to but provided no reasonable arguments at all. Don't forget this is a Philosophy Forum where the norms is a discussion/debate/countering of propositions and arguments.
Yours is like a tennis game where you merely swing the racket but not hitting the ball in return.

You avoided to counter my views appropriately.

I never avoided countering your views appropriately. I have already countered your views appropriately by explaining that your views are just an interpretation of some writings. You have no first hand exposure to the one/s who write them, therefore you have absolutely no idea what the actual intentions behind the writings are. You are only making assumptions and guesses. Assumptions and guesses are NOT facts.

Now, how do you counter my views appropriately?

You have also avoided the critical questions I raised.

When this is re-read then who has avoided the questions can be clearly seen.

What supposed "critical" questions do you propose that have I supposedly "avoided"?

I have already explained that it is possible to kill one's enemies without harming, hurting, nor injuring any part of the human body.

What do you keep harping on this kindergarten stuff?

When you write *what, do you mean *why?

Why do you call this kindergarten stuff? And, what exactly are you alleging is "kindergarten stuff"?

If you can counter this view appropriately, then do so. But just alleging my views are "kindergarten stuff" does not in any way counter them.

You appear to be extremely dumbstruck by this view, and unable to say any thing of any substance. Calling a view, which you have no idea about, "kindergarten stuff" infers that you are unable to counter the view at all. Calling that view "kindergarten stuff" almost certainly proves that you have nothing at all to counter it with. Oh that is of course unless you are finally able to write some thing of substance down.

Also, by the way my "kindergarten stuff" completely, and appropriately, counters your views about killing people, enemies, and non-believers. But are you even able to see this? If "kindergarten stuff" can show how "your stuff" is completely false, wrong, and/or incorrect, then what does that say about the "stuff" that you are saying here?

If you are unable to make any further inquires whatsoever, then what does that say about your absolute inability to see past what you already believe are the facts and the truth?

[Age]

Intelligence??
What you have done is blabbering your secret/cryptic thoughts that you clung tightly to but provided no reasonable arguments at all.[/quote]

1. The whole purpose of 'secret thoughts' are that they are clung tightly onto. The word 'secret' sort of explains that in itself.
2. Providing reasonable, or any, arguments for 'secret/cryptic thoughts' sort of defeats the whole purpose of them being secret/cryptic thoughts. The words secret and cryptic sort of explains that in detail.
3. Expecting to receive arguments from another for their secret/cryptic thoughts sounds fairly un-reasonable.

In fact are you even able to reason your above thought/view here about expecting to be provided with reasonable arguments for things that are kept secret and cryptic from you? You do NOT even have a clue what the secret/cryptic thoughts are. So, how could you even determine if you were being provided with reasonable, or unreasonable, arguments or not?

Don't forget this is a Philosophy Forum where the norms is a discussion/debate/countering of propositions and arguments.

The ONLY proposition being made here is that ideology of islam is evil. As there has NOT be any arguments made for this proposition yet, there really is nothing to discuss. There is also no actual thing to be debated nor countered. Yet I have already discussed how YOUR view that islam is inherently evil is just YOUR's and a few other's interpretations and perceptions, and, I have provided a counter view, to your claim, that it is very simple to kill non-believers without hurting a human body. Therefore, there is NO evil whatsoever taking place. The only thing that is happening is peace in harmony.

Yours is like a tennis game where you merely swing the racket but not hitting the ball in return.

Is that how you really see it?

Maybe those distorted views that you are dearly holding onto now are blocking you far more than even i realized?

I KNEW you were dismissing my views and points, but I thought this was because you were merely just trying to ignore and by-pass them while hoping others also would ignore them. However, maybe your beliefs are blinding you even more from and to the truth than i had imagined.

Thank you for enlightening us even further. The proof of just how much beliefs block you, human beings, from being able to see the truth is, and will be, very revealing.

Keep up the great work veritas aequitas.

[Dontaskme]

V.A

If according to you, God is an Impossiblity.

Then all these so called 'believers' that are killing 'non-believers' because their Illusory Impossible God commands them to, are doing so because they believe in their own artifically created illusions as being real.

So then that includes you too, all you are doing is demonizing what is only an illusion anyway...aka (evil) and going on and on about it as if this (evil) is an actual real entity...and that's not even touched upon the notion of 'who' this assumed entity you believe is a 'believer' actually is either?

Is that 'belief' you hold onto so dearly, not just another illusion?

Your the one demonizing the illusion of ''evil'' and demonizing the notion that there are these ''believing entities'' as if those concepts were actually real existing things in and of themselves, don't you see that ?

Don't you see the hypocrisy in your writing? ..Your the one demonizing what is only an illusion anyway and projecting into the world as if it was real..your doing this, no one else, why can't you accept that your projection of what ''you believe'' is not out-there in the external world, its in you the whole time?



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