Londoner wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:14 am
Suppose KJU is as much a victim of his nations social system as any of his people? It may be that he is a complete puppet. Or it may be that he is juggling policies in response to pressure from various factions as a matter of self-preservation. (And the same may be true of everyone else in North Korea.)
Or there is the question of 'moral luck'. KJU was born into a particular society, with particular norms and a particular picture of the world. If you or I had been born in his place, isn't it likely we would think and act in much the same way he does?
If we are totally without compassion of KJU, we must de-humanise him. Treat him not as a human like us, but as vermin. And if we think we should use nuclear weapons against him, we are saying the same about all North Koreans. That even the small children of the humblest peasants we will kill are as responsible and deserving of death as KJU.
If it is purely about self-defence we get round that. Then we can justify it as the best of two very bad options. But to deny the possibility of compassion for KJU or any other human is not to justify self-defence; it is to put us in a state of mind to justify genocide.
And isn't it odd how easily the US deposes leaders but only when it doesn't feel like blowing up a country (which isn't very often). Why get rid of one person when you can 'take out' millions?
People make fun of KJU, yet the US has Donald Duck as its President.
I agree. People who commit heinous acts are not deserving of compassion and empathy. For example Kim Jong Un seems to be unworthy of any compassion and I don't have any for him. However, I have enough empathy and compassion for many soldiers and civilians on both sides of the conflict during the war in Korea that I support Truman's decision not to pursue the war further. Pursuing it further would have resulted in many more lives being lost on both sides.
Why would you 'need' to have compassion for Kim? He's not suffering is he? Are you saying that if you don't have 'compassion' for someone then that gives the green light to attack them?
I guess as an American, since KJU is acting very aggressive and threatening to us, I sort of feel unable to care if something bad were to happen to him. My heart wouldn't bleed for him.
Between nations, mercy is conditional and follows sincere requests for mercy.
Unconditional mercy is dispensed willy-nilly by saints, not nations.
Credible threats of violence are not sincere requests for mercy.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:18 am
Why would you 'need' to have compassion for Kim? He's not suffering is he? Are you saying that if you don't have 'compassion' for someone then that gives the green light to attack them?
I guess as an American, since KJU is acting very aggressive and threatening to us, I sort of feel unable to care if something bad were to happen to him. My heart wouldn't bleed for him.
Between nations, mercy is conditional and follows sincere requests for mercy.
Unconditional mercy is dispensed willy-nilly by saints, not nations.
Credible threats of violence are not sincere requests for mercy.
Actually I wish someone would 'nuke' your evil, world's biggest pest bastard bugger of a country. The 'sacrifice' would save many millions of nonAmerican lives.
I guess as an American, since KJU is acting very aggressive and threatening to us, I sort of feel unable to care if something bad were to happen to him. My heart wouldn't bleed for him.
Between nations, mercy is conditional and follows sincere requests for mercy.
Unconditional mercy is dispensed willy-nilly by saints, not nations.
Credible threats of violence are not sincere requests for mercy.
Actually I wish someone would 'nuke' your evil, world's biggest pest bastard bugger of a country. The 'sacrifice' would save many millions of nonAmerican lives.
On such a scale of humanity any mercy shown to them or you could only be by grace.
Walker wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:46 am
Between nations, mercy is conditional and follows sincere requests for mercy.
Unconditional mercy is dispensed willy-nilly by saints, not nations.
Credible threats of violence are not sincere requests for mercy.
Actually I wish someone would 'nuke' your evil, world's biggest pest bastard bugger of a country. The 'sacrifice' would save many millions of nonAmerican lives.
On such a scale of humanity any mercy shown to them or you could only be by grace.
Londoner wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:14 am
Suppose KJU is as much a victim of his nations social system as any of his people? It may be that he is a complete puppet. Or it may be that he is juggling policies in response to pressure from various factions as a matter of self-preservation. (And the same may be true of everyone else in North Korea.)
Or there is the question of 'moral luck'. KJU was born into a particular society, with particular norms and a particular picture of the world. If you or I had been born in his place, isn't it likely we would think and act in much the same way he does?
If we are totally without compassion of KJU, we must de-humanise him. Treat him not as a human like us, but as vermin. And if we think we should use nuclear weapons against him, we are saying the same about all North Koreans. That even the small children of the humblest peasants we will kill are as responsible and deserving of death as KJU.
If it is purely about self-defence we get round that. Then we can justify it as the best of two very bad options. But to deny the possibility of compassion for KJU or any other human is not to justify self-defence; it is to put us in a state of mind to justify genocide.
You are of course right. KJU was ultimately born into his circumstances. But doesn't he have free will? Isn't he responsible for the choices the makes? I mean, the same could be said of Hitler. I'm not in favor of invading NK and I'm not in favor of launching any sort of long range attack against it AT ALL. I think we should really just let things simmer down. I feel about the same way at KJU as I feel toward Trump. I don't *advocate* something bad happen to either of them but, to be honest, my heart wouldn't exactly bleed if something bad did. They've both been horses' asses. I welcome the day both our nations (US and NK) get a better person in office.
KJU has been very aggressive in his occasional provocations. He's practically been asking for a response. He keeps saying things like "we are in a heightened state of alert, ready to invade South Korea at any time." Now it's the same with launching missiles at the US. I'm all for the US pulling out of South Korea completely but I really wonder if it's prudent to trust that NK wouldn't invade them if we did.
Maybe I'm wrong in all my beliefs above. I welcome correction and enlightenment if I am.
Londoner wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:14 am
Suppose KJU is as much a victim of his nations social system as any of his people? It may be that he is a complete puppet. Or it may be that he is juggling policies in response to pressure from various factions as a matter of self-preservation. (And the same may be true of everyone else in North Korea.)
Or there is the question of 'moral luck'. KJU was born into a particular society, with particular norms and a particular picture of the world. If you or I had been born in his place, isn't it likely we would think and act in much the same way he does?
If we are totally without compassion of KJU, we must de-humanise him. Treat him not as a human like us, but as vermin. And if we think we should use nuclear weapons against him, we are saying the same about all North Koreans. That even the small children of the humblest peasants we will kill are as responsible and deserving of death as KJU.
If it is purely about self-defence we get round that. Then we can justify it as the best of two very bad options. But to deny the possibility of compassion for KJU or any other human is not to justify self-defence; it is to put us in a state of mind to justify genocide.
You are of course right. KJU was ultimately born into his circumstances. But doesn't he have free will? Isn't he responsible for the choices the makes? I mean, the same could be said of Hitler. I'm not in favor of invading NK and I'm not in favor of launching any sort of long range attack against it AT ALL. I think we should really just let things simmer down. I feel about the same way at KJU as I feel toward Trump. I don't *advocate* something bad happen to either of them but, to be honest, my heart wouldn't exactly bleed if something bad did. They've both been horses' asses. I welcome the day both our nations (US and NK) get a better person in office.
KJU has been very aggressive in his occasional provocations. He's practically been asking for a response. He keeps saying things like "we are in a heightened state of alert, ready to invade South Korea at any time." Now it's the same with launching missiles at the US. I'm all for the US pulling out of South Korea completely but I really wonder if it's prudent to trust that NK wouldn't invade them if we did.
Maybe I'm wrong in all my beliefs above. I welcome correction and enlightenment if I am.
Do you feel ashamed to be part of such an aggressive, bullying country?
I guess as an American, since KJU is acting very aggressive and threatening to us, I sort of feel unable to care if something bad were to happen to him. My heart wouldn't bleed for him.
Between nations, mercy is conditional and follows sincere requests for mercy.
Unconditional mercy is dispensed willy-nilly by saints, not nations.
Credible threats of violence are not sincere requests for mercy.
Actually I wish someone would 'nuke' your evil, world's biggest pest bastard bugger of a country. The 'sacrifice' would save many millions of nonAmerican lives.
I'm sorry you feel that way, VT. A lot of innocent people here would be killed if the US were nuked. I assume I would be one of them. It's an interesting feeling to think that a forum member here essentially wants me collectively dead. Not sure how to take it. But I guess I'm not angered by it. You seem to be as frustrated with our leaders as I am. In the final analysis I guess we're all human beings and we get angry at world events and the propaganda we hear in our respective countries makes us disregard the lives of those we are told to hate.
Last edited by Gary Childress on Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Londoner wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:14 am
Suppose KJU is as much a victim of his nations social system as any of his people? It may be that he is a complete puppet. Or it may be that he is juggling policies in response to pressure from various factions as a matter of self-preservation. (And the same may be true of everyone else in North Korea.)
Or there is the question of 'moral luck'. KJU was born into a particular society, with particular norms and a particular picture of the world. If you or I had been born in his place, isn't it likely we would think and act in much the same way he does?
If we are totally without compassion of KJU, we must de-humanise him. Treat him not as a human like us, but as vermin. And if we think we should use nuclear weapons against him, we are saying the same about all North Koreans. That even the small children of the humblest peasants we will kill are as responsible and deserving of death as KJU.
If it is purely about self-defence we get round that. Then we can justify it as the best of two very bad options. But to deny the possibility of compassion for KJU or any other human is not to justify self-defence; it is to put us in a state of mind to justify genocide.
You are of course right. KJU was ultimately born into his circumstances. But doesn't he have free will? Isn't he responsible for the choices the makes? I mean, the same could be said of Hitler. I'm not in favor of invading NK and I'm not in favor of launching any sort of long range attack against it AT ALL. I think we should really just let things simmer down. I feel about the same way at KJU as I feel toward Trump. I don't *advocate* something bad happen to either of them but, to be honest, my heart wouldn't exactly bleed if something bad did. They've both been horses' asses. I welcome the day both our nations (US and NK) get a better person in office.
KJU has been very aggressive in his occasional provocations. He's practically been asking for a response. He keeps saying things like "we are in a heightened state of alert, ready to invade South Korea at any time." Now it's the same with launching missiles at the US. I'm all for the US pulling out of South Korea completely but I really wonder if it's prudent to trust that NK wouldn't invade them if we did.
Maybe I'm wrong in all my beliefs above. I welcome correction and enlightenment if I am.
Do you feel ashamed to be part of such an aggressive, bullying country?
Walker wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:46 am
Between nations, mercy is conditional and follows sincere requests for mercy.
Unconditional mercy is dispensed willy-nilly by saints, not nations.
Credible threats of violence are not sincere requests for mercy.
Actually I wish someone would 'nuke' your evil, world's biggest pest bastard bugger of a country. The 'sacrifice' would save many millions of nonAmerican lives.
I'm sorry you feel that way, VT. A lot of innocent people here would be killed if the US were nuked. I assume I would be one of them. It's an interesting feeling to think that a forum member here essentially wants me collectively dead. Not sure how to take it. But I guess I'm not angered by it. You seem to be as frustrated with our leaders as I am. In the final analysis I guess we're all human beings and we get angry at world events and the propaganda we hear in our respective countries makes us disregard the lives of those we are told to hate.
It's not different from the Americans on here saying the 'nuking' of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved 'lots (how many?) of American lives' (apparently they are worth more).
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:18 am
Why would you 'need' to have compassion for Kim? He's not suffering is he? Are you saying that if you don't have 'compassion' for someone then that gives the green light to attack them?
I guess as an American, since KJU is acting very aggressive and threatening to us, I sort of feel unable to care if something bad were to happen to him. My heart wouldn't bleed for him.
Between nations, mercy is conditional and follows sincere requests for mercy.
Unconditional mercy is dispensed willy-nilly by saints, not nations.
Credible threats of violence are not sincere requests for mercy.
Mercy means compassion shown toward someone who we have the power to harm. The same can be said of NK. They have the power to harm us. If we want their mercy, then maybe we should feel merciful toward them.
Actually I wish someone would 'nuke' your evil, world's biggest pest bastard bugger of a country. The 'sacrifice' would save many millions of nonAmerican lives.
I'm sorry you feel that way, VT. A lot of innocent people here would be killed if the US were nuked. I assume I would be one of them. It's an interesting feeling to think that a forum member here essentially wants me collectively dead. Not sure how to take it. But I guess I'm not angered by it. You seem to be as frustrated with our leaders as I am. In the final analysis I guess we're all human beings and we get angry at world events and the propaganda we hear in our respective countries makes us disregard the lives of those we are told to hate.
It's not different from the Americans on here saying the 'nuking' of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved 'lots (how many?) of American lives' (apparently they are worth more).
I agree. Maybe we're all just fallible humans and feel the same way toward each other and no one is exceptional, not you, not me.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:29 pm
Mercy means compassion shown toward someone who we have the power to harm. The same can be said of NK. They have the power to harm us. If we want their mercy, then maybe we should feel merciful toward them.
If they meet the conditions required for receiving mercy, i.e. no nukes and no threats, then they’ll have all the mercy they need.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:29 pm
Mercy means compassion shown toward someone who we have the power to harm. The same can be said of NK. They have the power to harm us. If we want their mercy, then maybe we should feel merciful toward them.
If they meet the conditions required for receiving mercy, i.e. no nukes and no threats, then they’ll have all the mercy they need.
Why do "they" need to meet the conditions required for receiving mercy but not us. Many in NK probably feel the same way you do. We have nukes and we have been threatening. Do you feel that no one deserves mercy in NK or do you just feel like KJU doesn't?
