surreptitious57 wrote:ken wrote:
I said I will provide the evidence but as I previously asked you How do you define humanistic utopian enlightenment? You
claim it is never going to happen. In order to provide evidence of how I have already gained this enlightenment I need to
know what your definition of it is first. So that I can provide the right evidence for YOU
You are the author of the term
humanistic utopian enlightenment so you must have some idea what those words mean to you.
I was NOT the author of the term
humanistic utopian enlightenment. commonsense was the first author of that term, in this post. The second person to use that term was you, when you said, "Humanistic utopian enlightenment is never going to happen
The only places one finds utopia is in a novel or a dictionary".
I was the third person to use that term, when I said, "But a humanistic utopian enlightenment has already happened."
surreptitious57 wrote:Since you wrote the term before I denied its possibility and your understanding of it has no bearing on what I think of it anyway you should provide a definition
Following from that logic, since YOU wrote the term, BEFORE I denied its impossibility, should you provide a definition?
surreptitious57 wrote: And regardless of what you might think how I react to it is my responsibility not yours. Putting that mental barrier up is not helping at all.
I agree that mental barrier may not be helping you at all, but I do take full responsibility for absolutely everything I do. If I cause confusion, a misunderstanding, or anything else in others because of what I say, write, or do, then that is My fault and no one elses.
Part of the learning process I am going through of how to express better is in learning when to use a mental barrier to prevent unnecessary things happening. I find sometimes it is far more helpful for Me to put up that mental barrier, such as now.
surreptitious57 wrote:The time and energy you ve so far spent in avoiding giving evidence to support your definition could have been spent doing the complete opposite
But I have not given a definition, yet. Both you and I were only assuming what the definition is when commonsense penned the term
humanistic utopian enlightenment.
Also, how long do you really think it would take one person to support, with evidence, how the whole of humankind could turn itself around, and their "justified", and thus unknowingly, wrong behaviors, into doing what is actually right, which will create peace on earth?
I could be doing the opposite and give evidence supporting that I have already been enlightened to a utopian way of life, but I have yet to find a way to just explain how if all adults just admitted that they abused children, and were truly open and honest about this fact, and seriously wanted to change for the better, then they would find out WHY they misbehave in the first place, which incidentally is what has caused the mess we are in now. I have also not yet worked out how to explain to adults that they all abuse children, and also explain but that is not who they REALLY are, and how working all this out in turn could and would prevent ALL future adults from abusing children ever again. Besides that I have yet to learn how to express to adults that some of the way they love their give children is actually abuse and that it is this abuse that if and when they are truly open and honest about is what provides them with the deepest and meaningfullest enlightenment. When that enlightenment is gained and ALL children are living in a truly abusive-free life, then that is how utopia can and will be created. I have yet to find just one adult who is willing to accept a utopian way of life is possible, and one who is then truly willing to spend any real time or energy just to listen My proposal. I am struggling learning how to express things to people because I have yet to find any person who I can practise on, and thus learn from. I need to be able to talk to human beings and be fully listened to before I can learn if I am doing it correctly. But most adults are just way to busy with their lives, and with their continual unconscious deceptions in trying to justify their ways, that they do not have the time nor patience to be helpful to Me and themselves so that both of us can become more enlightened and more wiser.
I have found that I can not give evidence to support any thing if people BELIEVE it is not possible, or if they BELIEVE it is not real, or if they do not have the time nor energy to really listen. I have noticed that the time and energy spent trying to give evidence to support My views if it causes confusion, misunderstanding, or conflict is a complete waste of time and energy. I have found that by just trying new and different ways to express I learn far more by the new and different responses and reactions I get. I found I progress further in my learning, in how to express better, from the responses I get, rather than from actually being heard and listened to.
Learning how to express all I want to say once and for all is my only goal here.
surreptitious57 wrote:No progress has been made and I am none the wiser as a consequence. And so I ll leave you alone and bother you no more with this like I said
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I am progressing and becoming wiser if you are not, if that is any consolation. If you do not want to stay around to find out, come to an agreement, and come to accept what the term
humanistic utopian enlightenment actually means, then so be it. You never believed it was possible from the beginning anyway. But remember both of us did not make the phrase up, we just assumed we knew what it meant. By the way I have already suggested that by just finding out, coming to an agreement, and an acceptance of a definition of some thing IS, like say "God" for example, can usually bring with it the realization and Truth of its existence or not.
If I had already accidentally uncovered a way that could produce utopia through human beings, then I have already been enlightened to that. If any person is truly interest in those ways, then they will stay around and keep asking for more clarity. But if you want to continue to BELIEVE that
humanistic utopian enlightenment IS impossible, then just carry on with what you continually do. I already know why 'you', that is all people, do what you do, and because I know the reason, I do NOT judge what you do. I am just here for truly frank, open and honest two-way discussions. i learn far more and become much wiser this way. Coming to an agreement and an acceptance of things is what actually brings about a peaceful and utopian way of life anyway.
By the way, like you
thought that I was the author of the term
humunistic utopian enlightenment, I also
thought you were the first one to write that term. The reason I kept asking you to provide a definition for that term was because I
thought it was your term. This just proves we both should have checked and clarified who wrote that term first before we both
assumed we already knew what the answer was. If and when human beings decide to look from a checked and clarified view, which comes from the open Mind, instead of looking from an assuming and already believed to be true view, then human beings are working together in making Life much better for themselves - everyone.