How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

[Dontaskme]

Since sthitapragya readily admits they are not capable of explaining further, on what they themselves write, and usually just refers me "to read" I will give you my perspective.
'Space', means the distance between matter. So, space can very easily expand when pieces of matter move away from each other. This applies in the smallest quantum physics all the way up to the largest cosmological physics. The friction less distance between matter allows all matter to move freely. Obviously when matter moves freely around, which it is able to do because of friction less space, the universe itself can change into any shape and form.

It is this always changing in shape and form, which allows new things to continually come into being, evolve, move around, and pass on, into and creating another new shape and form.

Sounds about right, I get that thanks... so space acts like a kind of stretchy buoyant medium that allows all matter to float freely around without ripping or flying apart...or something like that...

[Dontaskme]

Why the Universe is here IS so the 'I' can observe the beauty that 'I' am creating.

Granted, but the point is no one can know this.

You ken cannot know that, you are the known. Known by the only one that knows which is awareness one with the knowing. For ken to know as well is knowing twice, to know you know is to kill it. End of dream.

[ken]

Why are you asking me to explain????

I do not recall EVER asking you to explain anything whatsoever. What I recall is just asking you a number of very extremely simple and easy questions about what 'you' write, which sadly go unnoticed or are given no attention. You may be confusing me with someone else. You could go back and re-read ALL of what I have written to find some evidence of me asking you to explain. If you do not, then I completely understand.

I have already said there are a lot of sites which explain these things.

Again I will ask another very simple and easy question to and of you. What exactly are these things?

I do not want explanations. I understand enough, for now, of what I want to know for now.

You have two options either continue to believe what you believe or read.

I will make myself extremely clear here and now. I DO NOT BELIEVE NOR DO I DISBELIEVE ANYTHING, except in the Self. This would already be obviously clear if you had read my writings properly. If you can find any evidence of this, then I will be the first one to admit my mistake and will correct what I have written.

I have already pointed out exactly the things that you believe and want to hold onto believing. So you can take your own advice or not here.

The choice is yours. I am not a physicist.i cannot explain things as well as all the sites can. Your questions are directed at the wrong person.

If you state something in writing, then surely you do not believe that by me just asking you a very simple clarifying question about your statement is directing the question at the wrong person, do you? Lets see if you will answer this question. It will probably be your first direct answer if you do.

I have not and I do not want you to explain anything other than what you yourself write.

Again go back and see if I have ever asked you to explain anything other than what you have written. If you are not able to answer/explain what you yourself write, then I would be very careful in what i write if 'I' was 'you'.

All I can say is that if you go deep, you will get a whole new perspective. otherwise you won't. again the choice is yours to make.

Deep is where I have been trying to take 'you'. But sadly, and unfortunately for you, 'you' want to believe what you believe and stop looking any further past singularity. You believe it is NOT possible to go any further. Am I right?

How can you saying the universe if finite and time did not exist before singularity justify to you to then give me advice about going deeper when it is actually Me who is trying to get you look past that point. Talk about contradictory.

Also these are not minor details. In anyway.

They are very minor to me, and they are certainly of no real importance in the whole scheme of things. The Universe, Itself, is just way to big to worry about anything as minor as what human beings 'think', do not know.

[thedoc]

"No", 'I' am here to tell you that that is not right.

Very authoritarian aren't you. Tell me did you come here to learn what others believe, or are you just here to tell others what you believe, as if that is the end all and be all of everything?

[ken]

We can only guess what's going on with space and matter.

If space is expanding, it sound pretty much like it would be a counter acting force against the universe collapsing in on itself.. kind of like it was breathing in and out.

What if a black hole is breathing in matter and exhaling it out through the opposite side that being the white hole....maybe?


“There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

Another theory suggests that our universe is located within the interior of a wormhole… which itself is part of a black hole that lies within a much larger universe. The matter that black holes absorb don't condense into singularities, instead, they burst out the other side (of our universe?) and become the building blocks for whole other universes in another reality. In short, our Big Bang popped out of a black hole from another, much larger universe.

The plot thickens...

There have been several theories suggested to explain what is causing the expansion to speed up. Dark energy, Dark matter, (it's gravity) and I believe someone has suggested that there is Dark gravity (negative gravity). Until something is observed that can only be explained by one of these theories, it's all up in the air, (so to speak).

Hi thedoc, can i ask you to explain something for me. You sound like you know a fair bit about what you write and you seem to come here with a relatively open and thus inquisitive mind. I am the opposite in that i know nothing of any of this really.

I know it is not "polite" to ask if the universe is expanding, then what is it expanding into. The answer being the universe is not expanding into anything. It is just expanding. But lately I have been hearing the universe is expanding away from at every increasing speed, I was just wondering what is it expanding away from? Or does that come with the same sort of response that it is not expanding away from anything. It is just expanding?

Also, If the expansion is speeding up, then does that mean the objects furthest away from earth are moving away from earth or away from each other or from both?

Any answer you give, If there is no center of the universe, then if it looks like the objects furthest away from us appear to be ever increasingly moving away from each other at ever increasing speed, then from lets say the furthest observable object and from its perspective would let us say the earth and the moon also appear to be ever increasingly moving away from each other and at ever increasing speed also?

And also, if there is no center of the universe would, from that furthest object from earth, there appear to be objects in ALL directions from it appearing as far away as earth and the moon are? If so, then would it be right to logically think that there would be other objects as far out from the furthest objects just like there is from earth and the moon?

[Dontaskme]

"No", 'I' am here to tell you that that is not right.

Very authoritarian aren't you. Tell me did you come here to learn what others believe, or are you just here to tell others what you believe, as if that is the end all and be all of everything?

Well it seems unless ken approves, it's not right.

But then I didn't want to be the first to say it.

Hope we are all mature enough to take constructive criticism from each other and realise that nothing we say to each other is ever personal.

[ken]

Why the Universe is here IS so the 'I' can observe the beauty that 'I' am creating.

Granted, but the point is no one can know this.

You ken cannot know that, you are the known. Known by the only one that knows which is awareness one with the knowing. For ken to know as well is knowing twice, to know you know is to kill it. End of dream.

OR, if I wrote it then I must know it, or know of it, or dreamt it, or imagined it, or....

By the way ken is not the big real and true 'I'.

For this to be fully understood could take a while.

[ken]

"No", 'I' am here to tell you that that is not right.

Very authoritarian aren't you. Tell me did you come here to learn what others believe, or are you just here to tell others what you believe, as if that is the end all and be all of everything?

Firstly, I have a very strong dislike when people has a belief or believes (in) something, because if a person believes something then they are not open to the truth. So, I do not believe, nor do I disbelieve, anything, except in Self. A person can not remain open and believe (in) something at the same time.

I come here solely to learn from others. But I am not here to learn what they believe. I am here to learn how to express myself better. ALL I want to do is just share my views of only what I think is right. I love to be challenged on ALL of what I write to. So the more the better. So thank you for your reply here.

I can not find what I was replying to exactly, with that remark. But I thought dontaskme would pick up on it being the One. The conscious talking to Its Self that dontaskme frequently talks about.

[ken]

"No", 'I' am here to tell you that that is not right.

Very authoritarian aren't you. Tell me did you come here to learn what others believe, or are you just here to tell others what you believe, as if that is the end all and be all of everything?

Well it seems unless ken approves, it's not right.

But then I didn't want to be the first to say it.

Hope we are all mature enough to take constructive criticism from each other and realise that nothing we say to each other is ever personal.

The more constructive criticism I get the happy I am.

With more constructive criticism the more and can learn, grow (constructively) and improve.

Bring it on, I say.

[Dontaskme]

Why the Universe is here IS so the 'I' can observe the beauty that 'I' am creating.

Granted, but the point is no one can know this.

You ken cannot know that, you are the known. Known by the only one that knows which is awareness one with the knowing. For ken to know as well is knowing twice, to know you know is to kill it. End of dream.

OR, if I wrote it then I must know it, or know of it, or dreamt it, or imagined it, or....

By the way ken is not the big real and true 'I'.

For this to be fully understood could take a while.

No, there is only one I not two... the one that knows it knows is two.

The I is an appearance in IT not IT

What that IT is is unknown even by IT

I know I am nothing, and that's all that is known.

I'M REALLY ENJOYING THIS THREAD.

What is known is knowledge, which is illusory. No one wrote knowledge.

I love talking about nothing it's the only thing I know anything about.

[thedoc]

We can only guess what's going on with space and matter.

If space is expanding, it sound pretty much like it would be a counter acting force against the universe collapsing in on itself.. kind of like it was breathing in and out.

What if a black hole is breathing in matter and exhaling it out through the opposite side that being the white hole....maybe?


“There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

Another theory suggests that our universe is located within the interior of a wormhole… which itself is part of a black hole that lies within a much larger universe. The matter that black holes absorb don't condense into singularities, instead, they burst out the other side (of our universe?) and become the building blocks for whole other universes in another reality. In short, our Big Bang popped out of a black hole from another, much larger universe.

The plot thickens...

There have been several theories suggested to explain what is causing the expansion to speed up. Dark energy, Dark matter, (it's gravity) and I believe someone has suggested that there is Dark gravity (negative gravity). Until something is observed that can only be explained by one of these theories, it's all up in the air, (so to speak).

Hi thedoc, can i ask you to explain something for me. You sound like you know a fair bit about what you write and you seem to come here with a relatively open and thus inquisitive mind. I am the opposite in that i know nothing of any of this really.

I know it is not "polite" to ask if the universe is expanding, then what is it expanding into. The answer being the universe is not expanding into anything. It is just expanding. But lately I have been hearing the universe is expanding away from at every increasing speed, I was just wondering what is it expanding away from? Or does that come with the same sort of response that it is not expanding away from anything. It is just expanding?

Also, If the expansion is speeding up, then does that mean the objects furthest away from earth are moving away from earth or away from each other or from both?

Any answer you give, If there is no center of the universe, then if it looks like the objects furthest away from us appear to be ever increasingly moving away from each other at ever increasing speed, then from lets say the furthest observable object and from its perspective would let us say the earth and the moon also appear to be ever increasingly moving away from each other and at ever increasing speed also?

And also, if there is no center of the universe would, from that furthest object from earth, there appear to be objects in ALL directions from it appearing as far away as earth and the moon are? If so, then would it be right to logically think that there would be other objects as far out from the furthest objects just like there is from earth and the moon?

First let me say that I am not an astrophysicist but I do watch a lot of astronomy based documentaries and I understand most of what they say, as long as they don't get into the math. I'm relatively good at math, but in college I could only take one very basic math course and didn't have the room on my schedule to take more.

The observations made by astronomers are limited by the speed of light, so astronomers can only see objects whose light has had time to get here, and that is about 13.8 billion years. So anything beyond that distance is simply too far away to see or know anything about. Add to that the expansion of the Universe that is not necessarily the objects moving through space, but the space itself moving and expanding. Since relativity only concerns objects moving through space, the limit of light speed does not apply to objects that are being carried along in space. Very distant objects could be moving away from us faster than the speed of light so that their light will never reach us.

As far as the center is concerned, it is true that every thing and place was once within the singularity that was the center of the expansion of the Big Bang, so that it could be said that the center itself expanded into everything that is, but if there is an edge to the Universe, regardless of whether there is anything beyond it or not, there would be a center to that shape, (It might not be a sphere). The problem is that without knowing how far the Universe extends in any direction there is no way of knowing where the edge is, if there is one, and where the center is. Often the surface of a perfectly spherical balloon is used to demonstrate a 2 dimensional model of 3 dimensional space. Since there is no real center of the surface of a perfect sphere, it is reasoned that there is no real center to the Universe.

I'll try to answer the rest of your post later. I'll stop now so my brain doesn't start hurting.

[Dontaskme]

I'll stop now so my brain doesn't start hurting.

It's not your brain.

You don't have one, it has you...

[Dontaskme]

Dontaskme wrote:
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

Ken wrote: "No", 'I' am here to tell you that that is not right.

But maybe it is right.

From the inner net...
The Circle represents The Infinite; Eternity. It also represents the
flow of Time and the ever repeating Cycles of Eternity which have no
beginning and no end; Cycles which, when complete, flow back into
themselves and repeat anew. We find this cyclical Truth also
represented, Symbolically, by the Ouroboros: the serpent swallowing
its own tail.

Cycles can be Infinitely long or Infinitesimally short. There are
quantum cycles, daily cycles, monthly cycles, annual cycles,
generational cycles and cataclysmic cycles. Cataclysmic Cycles occur
when the earth, and the universe, destroy and re-cycle themselves
in order to be re-born into a new Cycle. But however long or short
a Cycle may be, a Cycle consists of the following: birth, life, death
(or transformation) followed by re-birth. And so it goes, on and on,
throughout Eternity; endless repeating Cycles followed by endless
repeating Cycles.

And because Cycles are endless and self-repeating it also means
that everything that ever will be created has already been created.
It re-enforces the proverb, "What has been will be again, what has
been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun"
(Esslesiastes 1:9).

Everything that is yet currently un-created in our physical realm
already exists, in its entirety, in the cosmic and Spiritual realm.
These un-manifested creations are simply waiting for our minds
and senses to reach the proper stage of development where we can
recognize them, understand them and re-manifest them in our
physical dimension.


Read the rest of this article here...it's fun ....http://www.aseekersthoughts.com/2009/09 ... ymbol.html

[thedoc]

There have been several theories suggested to explain what is causing the expansion to speed up. Dark energy, Dark matter, (it's gravity) and I believe someone has suggested that there is Dark gravity (negative gravity). Until something is observed that can only be explained by one of these theories, it's all up in the air, (so to speak).

Hi thedoc, can i ask you to explain something for me. You sound like you know a fair bit about what you write and you seem to come here with a relatively open and thus inquisitive mind. I am the opposite in that i know nothing of any of this really.

I know it is not "polite" to ask if the universe is expanding, then what is it expanding into. The answer being the universe is not expanding into anything. It is just expanding. But lately I have been hearing the universe is expanding away from at every increasing speed, I was just wondering what is it expanding away from? Or does that come with the same sort of response that it is not expanding away from anything. It is just expanding?

Also, If the expansion is speeding up, then does that mean the objects furthest away from earth are moving away from earth or away from each other or from both?

Any answer you give, If there is no center of the universe, then if it looks like the objects furthest away from us appear to be ever increasingly moving away from each other at ever increasing speed, then from lets say the furthest observable object and from its perspective would let us say the earth and the moon also appear to be ever increasingly moving away from each other and at ever increasing speed also?

And also, if there is no center of the universe would, from that furthest object from earth, there appear to be objects in ALL directions from it appearing as far away as earth and the moon are? If so, then would it be right to logically think that there would be other objects as far out from the furthest objects just like there is from earth and the moon?

First let me say that I am not an astrophysicist but I do watch a lot of astronomy based documentaries and I understand most of what they say, as long as they don't get into the math. I'm relatively good at math, but in college I could only take one very basic math course and didn't have the room on my schedule to take more. After graduation I needed to take 24 more credits for permanent certification, so I signed up for calculus and took Calculus I, and did pretty well, but so many people dropped out of the class that they didn't offer Calculus II. I didn't pursue the course after that.

The observations made by astronomers are limited by the speed of light, so astronomers can only see objects whose light has had time to get here, and that is about 13.8 billion years. So anything beyond that distance is simply too far away to see or know anything about. Add to that the expansion of the Universe that is not necessarily the objects moving through space, but the space itself moving and expanding. Since relativity only concerns objects moving through space, the limit of light speed does not apply to objects that are being carried along in space. Very distant objects could be moving away from us faster than the speed of light so that their light will never reach us.

As far as the center is concerned, it is true that every thing and place was once within the singularity that was the center of the expansion of the Big Bang, so that it could be said that the center itself expanded into everything that is, but if there is an edge to the Universe, regardless of whether there is anything beyond it or not, there would be a center to that shape, (It might not be a sphere). The problem is that without knowing how far the Universe extends in any direction there is no way of knowing where the edge is, if there is one, and where the center is. Often the surface of a perfectly spherical balloon is used to demonstrate a 2 dimensional model of 3 dimensional space. Since there is no real center of the surface of a perfect sphere, it is reasoned that there is no real center to the Universe.

I'll try to answer the rest of your post later. I'll stop now so my brain doesn't start hurting.

[sthitapragya]

Because you still haven't tried to find out about how expansion works, how space itself is expanding, how the universe is finite and expanding etc.you just claim it is not possible. In which case you reject the big bang theory.you talk of time before time existed. Till you figure out these things which are very counterintuitive you won't know what I am talking about.you can't reject it and say it's not possible if you want to learn.

How can space expand? please explain.

Since sthitapragya readily admits they are not capable of explaining further, on what they themselves write, and usually just refers me "to read" I will give you my perspective.
'Space', means the distance between matter. So, space can very easily expand when pieces of matter move away from each other. This applies in the smallest quantum physics all the way up to the largest cosmological physics. The friction less distance between matter allows all matter to move freely. Obviously when matter moves freely around, which it is able to do because of friction less space, the universe itself can change into any shape and form.

It is this always changing in shape and form, which allows new things to continually come into being, evolve, move around, and pass on, into and creating another new shape and form.

I am telling you to read because no one in their right mind would take on the staggering job of explaining everything about the big bang theory to you. It is a vaaaaaaaaaaaast subject. And I literally do not have the time or the inclination to address the problems in your understanding.

I will however give you one thing to study.

At least try and find out if there is a difference between the singularity at the big bang and the singularity at the black hole. That will help you figure out whether you can really correlate the two like yo do in your theory. Then it is up to you. You claim you are here to learn. See if you really want to or you are just mouthing it.

Here is one difference I can point out to you. The temperature at the big bang singularity was mathematically infinite. That does not mean the temperature was infinite. It could be infinite and it could not be infinite. The temperature at the black hole singularity is extremely low. This is just one of the differences. Then there is relativistic volume, density, etc that you will have to contend with. So read if you wish.

Also you have expansion completely backwards. Pieces of matter are not moving away from each other. The space between them is expanding. The pieces of matter are stationary. Their scale simply changes with time. Even the change of scale applies only beyond certain distances. Within those distances, objects could be moving towards or away from each other.