Philosophy Now Forum

Strangely, we sometimes assume that someone is kind and trustworthy and we stick to this judgment and find excuses if this person does something surprising.

One man here is a nice chap, on the whole. I was puzzled though why on earth was he chasing a friendly bear whenever this bear showed up on the premises. Was he playing a policeman ? Was it a fancy ? Did he have a good reason to do it which I missed completely ?
The bear must have been so frustrated after a while that he left. He was looking for peace and not war, this was my impression. His departure did not surprise me. I would have left too, probably.

This is an English forum so the English decide what is appropriate here, and we foreigners should adapt and say thank you for tolerating us.

How can we know what is appropriate in England ?

By reading English books for example. I just finished "Mother´s Milk" by a certain Edward St. Aubyn.
I tried to observe and to remember what annoyed Mary and Patrick Melrose.

My home is my castle. This forum is a castle of the English or rather of the British to be precise.

Is an excessive use of superlatives an unpardonnable mistake ?

Can anyone think of any other serious mistakes ?

Yes, I was wondering about Bill Wiltrack. Does anyone know what happened to him. I hope he's alright. He used to really get me laughing sometimes, he was quite a character.

RB could advertise some perfume for Chanel.

A French writer did it before he could earn money by writing novels. I do not remember his name but the book in question was about the protagonist marrying a violent black woman from Africa called Alex and then divorcing and marrying a soft Italian sweety called Alice who built him up again.
I attended a reading session with the author. I was sitting in the last raw, without glasses (but this is another story) and I could not see his face, I only remember a voluminous white shirt which made me think of a hero from a novel by Dumas.
The following day I was able to see his face on the internet.

Reply to AS her words in italics. On the subject of changing of names or personal identity; apparent loss of a friend/poster.

I could totally understand....if someone wanted to be carefree and footloose without having to fear his/her name would be dragged through the mud...

A bit like Kierkegaard and his pseudonymous authors ?

I asked [Non Sum] if he thought it would be alright if I made a new name...where he could help me participate with the forum...He said that it would be wrong to do that because you would be pulling the wool over your friends eyes.

Making a new name in itself is not wrong. Being helped to articulate thoughts is not wrong. However, if someone else is writing for you, then you misss out on the actual process of thinking as you go. If you use someone else's thoughts as your own without giving credit this is plagiarism - and wrong.

I think that if one of my friends did the same thing...meaning deceived me so that could see "how the other half lived" or something to that effect....I would not mind...as it would only be an experiment to live out a fantasy and not an intention to harm.

This is not the same thing. A poster who changes name to express a point of view not his own or to gain a sense of freedom from his/her true self is being creative in the thinking process, not 'living out a fantasy'. I can understand how you might not appreciate the distance created, since this 'knowing' someone might help in understanding.

Thanks marjoramblues,

M:A bit like Kierkegaard and his pseudonymous authors ?

AS: Yes...but it didn't actually work for him did it? They caught on to the poor guy and his name was still dragged through the mud. Still..it is a good way to get people to let down their guard and hear what you are saying...that is if they have a preconceived idea about you, one that would make them 'hear' something other than what you were saying because they could not shake the aesthetics of their judgment of you.

M:Making a new name in itself is not wrong. Being helped to articulate thoughts is not wrong. However, if someone else is writing for you, then you misss out on the actual process of thinking as you go. If you use someone else's thoughts as your own without giving credit this is plagiarism - and wrong.

AS:No, you misunderstood me...probably because I used the Cyrano example...sorry. No what I wanted him to do was edit me instead of speak for me. I wanted to say exactly what I thought...only have it sound more intelligent by using 'proper' English. I am always amazed how editors can move a few words around in order to make thoughts more clear and precise. That's not plagiarism, I think it's more of making you make more sense out of what you want to say.

M:This is not the same thing. A poster who changes name to express a point of view not his own or to gain a sense of freedom from his/her true self is being creative in the thinking process, not 'living out a fantasy'.

AS: I don't know about that...as an online persona can create a perfect mask for someone to 'live out a fantasy.' Suppose a man wanted to fantasize they were a women. They could create that persona online and see what it was like. Perhaps they would find that some people treat them differently than they had perceived themselves treated as a man? I think it would kinda be like role playing.

M:I can understand how you might not appreciate the distance created, since this 'knowing' someone might help in understanding.

AS: I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you explain what you mean?

AS: Yes...but it didn't actually work for him did it? They caught on to the poor guy and his name was still dragged through the mud. Still..it is a good way to get people to let down their guard and hear what you are saying...that is if they have a preconceived idea about you, one that would make them 'hear' something other than what you were saying because they could not shake the aesthetics of their judgment of you.

It seems to have worked up to a point - enabling his creativity and expression of ideas. Perhaps a poster taking a new name is indeed about changing perceptions.

AS:No, you misunderstood me...probably because I used the Cyrano example...sorry. No what I wanted him to do was edit me instead of speak for me. I wanted to say exactly what I thought...only have it sound more intelligent by using 'proper' English. I am always amazed how editors can move a few words around in order to make thoughts more clear and precise. That's not plagiarism, I think it's more of making you make more sense out of what you want to say.

Thanks for the clarification. I understand that editing is not plagiarism; I don't see what is wrong with you receiving help to clarify your meaning or expression.

AS: ... an online persona can create a perfect mask for someone to 'live out a fantasy.' Suppose a man wanted to fantasize they were a women. They could create that persona online and see what it was like. Perhaps they would find that some people treat them differently than they had perceived themselves treated as a man? I think it would kinda be like role playing.

Knew I should have used Edit to add 'necessarily': A poster who changes name to express a point of view not his own or to gain a sense of freedom from his/her true self is being creative in the thinking process, not necessarily 'living out a fantasy'.

M:I can understand how you might not appreciate the distance created, since this 'knowing' someone might help in understanding.

AS: I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you explain what you mean?

Knowing a poster by a certain name and building up a relationship gives a sense of familiarity, a closeness. You have an idea of a person as a 'friend'. You feel that for the most part, you 'get' them, and they you. There can be a shared understanding. If that poster leaves, then you have a sense of loss - the contact is no longer there.
If that 'friend' then returns with a new name, you only have the words to go by. The distance is in the perhaps more objective attempts at understanding ?

Yes, this is the fate of most forums, a slow but steady decline in content quality.

The problem is not with the software, or with any specific group of people, but with a seriously outdated content management philosophy that is dominant across forum culture. This content management philosophy has become the brand in people's minds of what forums are, and both users and admins seem determined to stubbornly stick with it right to the very end.

This is an interesting social experiment in the power of branding. It seems true that all concerned would rather give up forums than change their definition of what forums are. This human phenomena is probably why big corporations spend billions on branding campaigns.

Forums now compete with huge social media sites like Facebook and Twitter. These sites excel at providing a very popular form of human interaction that I call "cocktail party chatter", that is, little blurbs of this and that. That is, conversation that requires very little thinking, which is after all a very efficient way to make human connections.

No forum managed with the "almost anything goes" philosophy has a chance of competing with these infinitely larger sites that expertly specialize in the cocktail party experience. No forum owner who doesn't get this has much of a future as a forum owner.

If forums are to survive, their only hope is to be the quality content alternative. This is a smaller, but still significant, audience that is available for forums, if the forum owners are willing to serve this niche.

Generally speaking, in most cases, forum admins are not willing. Most forum owners today are obsessively interested in spam, but could otherwise generally care less what users post on their forums. The outcome of this lopsided illogical philosophy is easily predicted, spam free forums full of low quality crap.

It's much easier to type a junk post than it is to say something interesting, and say it well. Far more people are qualified to type junk than quality. Thus, without content quality controls, the natural tendency is for the junk to crowd out the quality writing.

This establishes a social dynamic where the less interesting writers steadily crowd out the more interesting writers, a process which tends to accelerate as it proceeds.



This is a good question indeed. My best guess is, yes in theory, but probably no in the real world.

Which raises another perhaps interesting question. As forums steadily whither away, where will we go in the future for thoughtful in depth conversations online?

You got me there, no idea really. I'm not sure the future world we are creating will place much of a premium on thoughtful in depth conversations.

Personally, I'm not going to be part of this future world we're creating, so that's one way to solve the problem.

Hi M,

Distance? You know what I do...I mean in real life...when I want to know a persons character? I show them my faults...in other words...I make myself vulnerable to them. If they treat me with kindness, I get a good vibe about them...if they use it as an opportunity to take advantage of me i.e.someone less fortunate than themselves...I am wary. Not that I distance myself from them....because I am not so easily hurt that I don't allow all people into my life...if not simply to see if I am wrong about them...ya know what I mean kinda as a test to see if I was right? But online is different....no one can really 'do' anything to you online...and I am not going to meet any online people in real life anyway...so what do I care if they are mean online?

I have just been thinking about what you said before...and it occurred to me that you might have been right about the situation. I think because of my lack of communication skill that Nonsum might have misunderstood what I was asking...lol. He too might have thought I wanted him to speak for me! LOL It seemed odd to me that he would think it THAT wrong to make a different screen name...but it makes sense that he would think it was wrong to speak for me! Thinking back... I am a little offended that he thought I needed THAT much help to sound intelligent!

I will have to remember to email him and ask him if he remembers that request. I would love to know if that is what he thought I was asking! It seems more likely ....how funny a misunderstanding can go unnoticed for that many years! Thanks for making me aware.

I was asking for him to make my words sound better/more intelligent and I'll bet he thought I was asking for him to write the whole script! LMAO!

Thanks for giving me a chuckle. This happens so often to me you would not even know. I just have so much trouble with language....I never say the right thing in the right way I mean it!

Welcome back Typist! How ya been?

No you're fine. People have to learn your language just as much as you have to learn theirs. Actually I see that it's more proper that people seek clarification prior to jumping to conclusions, but even so, I do it as well, and almost always regret it. Of course some misunderstanding seems to slip through the cracks no matter how diligent you are.

PEACE, my friend!

Lurking from the looks of it or maybe he just goggles his name.

Funny how those who complain about this forums lack of depth and flounce off in a huff tend to return. Maybe its because the other deeper forums don't put up with them? Or is it that they have discovered the shallowness within.

It is not easy to be brilliant, especially not on demand.

But intellectual honesty usually produces satisfactory results which can be used for further development.

Our intellectual imperfection and fallacies make sure that we regard truth from an interesting point of view all the time.

Thanks SOB! It is true that misunderstandings arise....not only that...I think sometimes they are done on purpose...in order to entice a better argument.

AS: It is true that misunderstandings arise....not only that...I think sometimes they are done on purpose...in order to entice a better argument.

Ya think ?

AS: Thanks for giving me a chuckle. This happens so often to me you would not even know. I just have so much trouble with language....I never say the right thing in the right way I mean it!

It seems, to me, that you are very confident in what and how you think - you express some very deep and complex thoughts extremely well. All that and a wonderful sense of humour too