Philosophy Now Forum

That's a good point Duszek. A person can try too hard. That is why I don't think one should "try" to make another happy.....only that they should try to care about an individual.

If you go up to someone and say, "If there is anything I can do for you, please let me know" and offer them a beverage that is a simple acknowledgement of good intentions without being too obtrusive.

There was this comedy/fantasy I loved...it was called "A blast from the past." An American scientist from the 50's build this bomb shelter and due to certain circumstances are forced to live there for 30 years. They have a child and this child is raised without the influence of society. He learns everything from his parents...morals...latin....dance...you name it...but it was all based on 50's era mentality in the US at that time. Anyway, after thirty years the lock/hatch is time released and they are free. But the dad goes up and is horrified at what he finds and has a sort of heart attack and the mother gives the son money to go buy more supplies so they won't have to live among the "mutants". Anyway, the son who is very innocent meets a cynical skeptic who he falls in love with. She can't believe he is for real...because he is so kind and nice and polite...unlike any man she's met. She thinks at first he's nuts...or just playing her...and she is just mean to him....but then her gay friend says something to her that makes her stop and think of how her behavior is not justified.

Friend: He thinks that I am a gentleman and that you are a lady!

Girl: Well, consider the source. I don't even know what a lady is.

Friend: Exactly! I thought a gentleman was somebody who owned horses. Turns out, the short and very simple definition of a gentleman or a lady is: someone who always attempts to make the people around him or her feel as comfortable as possible.

I really liked that definition. And if you think about it....how many of us would not want someone to treats us like that...Just to acknowledge that we exist and that our comfort matters? This does not mean to be a nuisance....as that would be cruel and not really "trying to make someone as comfortable as possible."

I just feel that there would be more happiness in the world if people at least tried to stop thinking about their own comfort (or un-comfort as the case may be) and instead try to focus on another.

Sure, there may be the rare person who does not want anybody to take a concern for their comfort, but I think most people would like a person who asked, "Is there anything I can do to make you more comfortable." Even if the answer was no and neither person saw each other again. I think it would just have a positive effect on both parties lives.

I agree.

Two more definitions of a gentleman:

A gentleman never hurts anyone´s feelings unintentionally. (probably by Oscar Wilde)

A gentleman is a man who does not work. (Paul Nurse)


We all wish to feel comfortable. Making someone else feel comfortable creates a comfortable atmosphere.
Comfortable does not have to mean relaxed and smiling permanently.
Some people may feel refreshed and comfortable by an exchange of brilliant cynicisms.
Different sorts of comfort are necessary to accomodate different predilections.

In the dialogue Protagoras the education of children is being discussed.
Children should learn great poems by heart, play lyre and other instruments, and do some other things, so that their souls become gentle.
The opposite of gentle is when you are short-tempered, ferocious, following your low instincts. An uneducated caveman is un-gentle, he is what we might call today a "brute".

Here is a brief article on happiness:

"People who are grateful.

Gratitude is the mother of happiness."
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... nis-prager

Is it possible to nourish the feeling of gratitude ?

Someone told me that in the old days married women were advised to count their blessings.

(I have a husband, he loves the Lord, he works (sometimes), I have a house and something to do in it ... )

Men could count their blessings too.

Emotional management is what I am working on at the moment.

1. Avoid people who make you feel bad.

2. Act as if and the feelings will follow.

3. Drown annoying people in political correctness.
No sabotage in the mind, because it would spoil the effect.

Gratitude can be one element of emotional management. It is not my first choice though.

I might be more happy if I learn to navigate in the ocean of lies.
Hiding in a shell so that I do not lose self-respect.

Sorry As, missed this.
I don't understand how? The questions, when answered, will provide one with the happiness they seek. What did you find elusive about them that led you to think that happiness is elusive?

Hi Arising,

It is just my opinion that answering questions having to do with "I" would not bring about true happiness. It might fool us to think we are happy for a moment, but eventually it is human nature to still want something better. I believe it is this human trait having to do with self/ego that is the problem. I do not believe that if 'self' got what it 'wanted' it would make us happy. There would also be something else to 'want.'

However, if we think outside of self...as in exercise our brains to think the opposite of how we are designed...in order to think things like, "I will be happy because or when that other person is happy", then I think we would get a sense of peace through giving ourselves something to think other than "I".

So our thoughts might therefore run into...."how can I make that other person happy so I can be happy." Which in turn gives us something to think about besides how miserable we are or what we are lacking. Which are what your questions are about i.e. self.

At the same time...that thought of trying to focus on another person...might make that person feel special or at least heard...or understood...in their humanity. Which I think might catch on.

All I am saying is that perhaps we can exercise our minds as we do our bodies to be stronger than they are.

If we are constantly feeling "harm" by thinking I am not getting what I want or need to be happy, then how can we ever be happy?

"Remove the judgment and you remove the thought 'I am hurt'...remove the thought 'I am hurt', and the hurt itself is removed."

Marcus Aurelius

I agree and I have practising this most of life, as almost every day when I entered my school/place of employment/social event I say to myself 1, 2, 3 smile and enter smiling .
It has become almost second nature to me and has been successful to a reasonable degree, as I am viewed as a happy people person. I still play the 'Good morning' game, even if it takes me two years or more to get the same, or any, response from some colleagues - that makes me happy lol.


Accept that your happiness should not depend on other people being happy. If other people were happy, would that guarantee you would be too? Why?

Don't let regrets take over your life. Every choice or mistake made, or misfortune that befalls, can change your life for better or worse. But life is fluid and we can still make other choices, even if it is only little changes to help us cope with misfortune better. This is what I am working on towards my happiness - everything is fluid.

And try to be honest with yourself, and others - another one on my list .
Too often we make assumptions about what others expect from us and behave accordingly. Brutal honesty is scary and can hurt so little white lies crop in to protect yourself and others but displays compassion. If you being honest would make the others unhappy, would you refrain and remain unhappy?

"how can I make that other person happy so I can be happy."

Lynn:Accept that your happiness should not depend on other people being happy. If other people were happy, would that guarantee you would be too? Why?

AS: Hi Lynn and welcome to the forum. I have been reading you but I am sorry I haven't taken the chance to say hi yet! So Hi!

I think you took my quote out of context...either that or I did not make myself clear...as usual. I am not saying that our happiness "should" depend on other people "being" happy. I am making a different argument.

A long time ago a doctor friend of mine made a very unique statement that I had never heard before and have never heard since. He asked me what makes me happy...but the way he worded it meant also "what defines me." Meaning what do I do that defines who I am that also makes me happy. I answered....love, friends, but mainly being an artist...because I am constantly challenging myself and that's fun. Then he said, now suppose something took away your ability to be an artist....what would define you and make you happy then?

I have been thinking about what it meant ever since. Even though I don't remember his exact words...I remember the gist of it....and I have thought about it so often that it remains a constant in my life.

It's like what you say about tragedy befalling you. You choose what you will to cope. Here's an example of what I mean: suppose you were stricken with a disease so horrible that it took away every thing you loved in the world. Suppose, you could not move or talk or hear or see....you still had your mind and your ability to think...but no way of ever communicating those thought to others. How would you be happy then? How would you define yourself then?

I believe we are so used to thinking in the term 'I' we have gotten lazy when thinking about any thing else. It is my belief "I" has become an obsession.

So then I thought about it...and the horror that it would be to be alone....totally alone in our thought...and perhaps jealous that others could have such freedom...and the thought consumed me. I could see myself becoming bitter. As when things are taken away from us in this life that we feel a need or desire to want to have...to deserve to 'have' and we see others have them...I think there is an overwhelming sense of "I".

But just suppose...we could train our mind (and it is not dishonest to do so...just as it is not dishonest to get any education...is learning 'math' for instance...dishonest?) so suppose we could train our mind to get happiness from seeing others defining this life of their in their own terms of happiness? I mean happiness not in the general superficial treatment of the word...but in this type of way :
Suppose we went to see a movie for entertainment...that movie could be sad, or make us think...or learn...or it could be a comedy or a romance...it doesn't matter. We just go to the movies because it's enjoyable...so too is the pleasure we could get from watching someone live out their lives in front of us.

Suppose anything we saw... we could look at from the point of view of trying to get a greater understanding of them and us and the world? Would that not be a gift? Would that not still allow us to have an accomplishment? Could we not continue to strive to get better at it? Of course we could...since our natural state is to think "I", it would take time and diligence to think in a different manner.

I hope you don't think I am talking about regrets....sure...I've had a few...but then again too....lol ...(kidding with the frank sinatra... ) No....I am not talking about regrets. To me those are superficial. I am talking about a deep general sense of contentment not just a sense of happiness that is based on conditions.

Lynn: If you being honest would make the others unhappy, would you refrain and remain unhappy?

AS: See this is why I don't think you are understanding me. Let me ask you a question.....why do you think refraining from saying something to someone that would hurt them would ever make you happy?

My mom has a tendency to say very hurtful things under the excuse of....'it's how I 'feel'" Never understanding that others have the right then to say their own hurtful things. How on earth does that make anyone happy? Sure...for a moment she is "relived" to get it all out. But then what about tomorrow? Or the day after?

Not that I haven't said my share of "honest" things. I have. Also, it is not dishonest to say nothing.

I have also tried the other way and have had "honest" conversations with people about the way I feel. Only to stop and ask myself, "Who the hell am I to think that everyone must hear everything I think? And why do I think it's my duty to tell them everything they do wrong? Because it annoys me? Because I am "helping" them be a better person? What makes me think I am the better person? For all I know it could be them...as I am not inside them and I can't know what they know."

It has been my experience, that keeping my 'vinegar' inside is much better for my happiness all around. It's better for my 'egotistical' happiness that you speak about and for my outer happiness. Simply because when I choose to work on my own "demons' if you will, inside, I have no consequences to face if I should be wrong.

But don't think I am always successful. Trust me, I am not. I fail most of the time. But...still...even by trying ...I am getting a good work out and I feel as if I am accomplishing a goal of some sort. If nothing else it is a good experiment.

Hi artisticsolution and thank you for the welcome. Part of my learning experience will be to quote more appropriately and in the original context, not just to see words which resound with me then use them in my own personal, not the original, context. This is an every valuable lesson, which I hope to retain. So here we may start to see the differences.

Accept that your happiness should not depend on other people being happy.
- was a reaction to hearing this 'I cannot be happy because you are not happy', and thinking why should and how can anyone else be responsible for a person's own happiness or lack of it.

AS: "what defines me."
I define myself on a holistic level, by my life experiences, which have made the person I am today, will be tomorrow and ever changing onwards. The inability to communicate thoughts to others is perhaps not the best example for me, as I am a fairly solitary creature who has, in contradiction, only recently came out of her shell, including to the forum, but would find it only too easy to return if feeling uncomfortable or unhappy - technlogical enhancements in physical health care couldn't stop that lol. I would strive to find a way within myself to be happy.

AS: Suppose anything we saw... we could look at from the point of view of trying to get a greater understanding of them and us and the world?
I would view this as taking a local and world view for social responsibility/conscious, which may not be the right phrases to use, I will learn, but I mean looking outside of self for the greater good. Yes, I am pleased to see a happy, healthy child and concerned when it is not the case and the same on a worldwide scale.

AS: why do you think refraining from saying something to someone that would hurt them would ever make you happy?
Not being honest may be resulting in you being unhappy or even hurt mentally, emotional and/or physically. The aim is not to make the other person deliberately unhappy or hurt them however this may happen as a consequence of being honest. Nor is it to use honesty as a weapon to control, let off steam or vent frustration.

appreciate who yourself no matter how bad a situation may be

Lynn:Hi artisticsolution and thank you for the welcome. Part of my learning experience will be to quote more appropriately and in the original context, not just to see words which resound with me then use them in my own personal, not the original, context. This is an every valuable lesson, which I hope to retain. So here we may start to see the differences.

AS: I think your posts have been very interesting....which of course is why I read them and why I replied to them. I am an introverted person too...and usually like to be in my shell. But that's the great thing about a forum. You can simply walk away...unlike at a party or a funeral, for example, where you are forced to listen and interact because you chose to be there.

Anyway, I don't think there are too many right or wrong answers in philosophy...just different arguments and different things to think about and I thank you for that.

Who was talking about "wants"?

My questions are such that if answered would at least tell you what being happy was to you. As such the person you talk about has answered them with, "Happiness to me is making others happy", "I know when I am happy when I see others around me being happy", etc.

I think your idea that making others happy is a necessary part of being happy oneself is questionable, the slave-master is very happy when the slave does their job, the employer is very happy when the employee works hardest for the last reward, will this make the slave and employee happy?

I think the idea of a 'true happiness' is a fiction and if what you say is true about the human psyche then its also an unobtainable one?