If God Exists, Is It Our God?

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:57 pm

Godfree wrote:

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Godfree wrote:

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
As usual you fail to think outside the box. Your one problem, is that you tend to think of things that are obviously beyond us, from our limited perspective, as if we've already unlocked the secrets of the universe, in it's entirety. We have not, or we could circumnavigate the universe in it's entirety. You seem to be incapable of thinking that there could be much more beyond our comprehension, that does not adhere to the physics or knowledge, that we have come to know. This is your primary limitation. To liken the possible creator of infinity to that of a man made computer is absolutely laughable, at least think proportionately. Try thinking of a technology a trillion times more advanced than a quantum computer and beyond!

So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???
What are you talking about? I thought you and I agree that there is no fucking GOD, and that we were talking about a creator. If you expect to discuss/argue with me you'll have to stop changing the subject all the time, I can't keep track of your seemingly hurdy gurdy thinking process.

Now would you like to keep talking about this archaic GOD fuck that only exists in the minds of men that would control or be controlled, or would you like to talk about a new theory of the possibility of a creator? Personally, I have no time to discuss man's GOD!

Explain the force of gravity, from an observed perspective.

Explain electromagnetic energy, from an observed perspective.

Explain particles that seem to pop into and out of existence, from an observed perspective.

Explain where the infinite universe came from, if you believe it did not come from anything, explain how it could possibly be that it has always existed, either one from an observed perspective.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 890

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Godfree wrote:

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
As usual you fail to think outside the box. Your one problem, is that you tend to think of things that are obviously beyond us, from our limited perspective, as if we've already unlocked the secrets of the universe, in it's entirety. We have not, or we could circumnavigate the universe in it's entirety. You seem to be incapable of thinking that there could be much more beyond our comprehension, that does not adhere to the physics or knowledge, that we have come to know. This is your primary limitation. To liken the possible creator of infinity to that of a man made computer is absolutely laughable, at least think proportionately. Try thinking of a technology a trillion times more advanced than a quantum computer and beyond!

So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???
What are you talking about? I thought you and I agree that there is no fucking GOD, and that we were talking about a creator. If you expect to discuss/argue with me you'll have to stop changing the subject all the time, I can't keep track of your seemingly hurdy gurdy thinking process.

Now would you like to keep talking about this archaic GOD fuck that only exists in the minds of men that would control or be controlled, or would you like to talk about a new theory of the possibility of a creator? Personally, I have no time to discuss man's GOD!

Explain the force of gravity, from an observed perspective.

Explain electromagnetic energy, from an observed perspective.

Explain particles that seem to pop into and out of existence, from an observed perspective.

Explain where the infinite universe came from, if you believe it did not come from anything, explain how it could possibly be that it has always existed, either one from an observed perspective.

Sob , my use of god instead of creator , was just out of habit ,
the world that I know tend to believe they are one and the same ,
so I'm not used to thinking of them as separate concepts ,
I meant to say creator ,but it means the same to me ,,,
Gravity , no surprises I have my own opinion on that to ,
I believe at the heart of every atom is a little bit of black hole,
minute fragment of matter has so much power ,
the bit in the middle is so small compared to the size of the atom ,
I have to wonder how it is so powerful,
condensed matter , surely the only thing that could be so small and yet so powerful , is the condensed matter from a black hole ,
everything has a attraction to everything else ,
the black hole bits are trying to clump together, but the protons and electron put up a barrier and it takes the likes of a nuclear bomb to force them together causing the bits of black hole to collide ,
There is a simple experiment you could do to demonstrate gravity at work , get a bowl of water place to objects in the water floating not touching or moving ,
leave it for a day or two , and you will find the two objects clumped together
why, is a lot harder to know , but we can know what happens ,
Electro magnetic , that to me seems a bit easier ,
we make electric motors and generators , magnets have a field ,
and when you interfere with that field things happen ,
physical movement seems to be part of this equation ,
whether its a spinning core or wind and rain rubbing each other ,
electricity seems to be the result
particles that pop in and out of existence ,, makes no sense to me and
I would challenge that statement ,
the particle must be changing from one substance to another ,
rather than it not existing and then it exists from nowhere ,
thats like saying there was nothing before the BB ,
I would repeat my previous quote , Godfrees law ,
"If there was ever a point in the universes history that there was nothing , then nothing is all there would ever be"

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:08 pm

First I would like to thank you, good sir, for seriously attempting to answer my questions. You are brave and honorable, or so it would seem!

Godfree wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:

Sob ,
so what was electromotive again,,??????????????????????????

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Look it up, Wikipedia only had a 24 hour black out and that was days ago.
I did reiterate, but you missed it as usual.

Godfree wrote:

Ok so you have some electrical power or current you feel is there for the taking ,
but that is only a small part of the equation ,
if we are to use us as an example , we have electrical current ,which we use to send and receive messages from our muscles and different parts of our brain ,but the brain tissue , stores the memory , and the electrical current
accesses it like the ram on your computer accesses the hard drive, so what would god store it's info on , all knowing would need massive storage banks to hold all the all ,
I can't see any way it would be possible without a physical address to hold the info , and store it for use .
As usual you fail to think outside the box. Your one problem, is that you tend to think of things that are obviously beyond us, from our limited perspective, as if we've already unlocked the secrets of the universe, in it's entirety. We have not, or we could circumnavigate the universe in it's entirety. You seem to be incapable of thinking that there could be much more beyond our comprehension, that does not adhere to the physics or knowledge, that we have come to know. This is your primary limitation. To liken the possible creator of infinity to that of a man made computer is absolutely laughable, at least think proportionately. Try thinking of a technology a trillion times more advanced than a quantum computer and beyond!

So then we could look at a non thinking god ,
god as the gravity that drives the universe or the light that life needs ,
we could see god as lots of things , but they already have names ,
so why would we re name it god , gravity is gravity and light is light ,
you can see a part of the universe as a god ,
you can call it anything you like ,
but there is nothing supernatural or godlike about gravity or light ,
is there anything about the universe that you think ,
cannot be attributed to natural forces and explained by science ,,???
What are you talking about? I thought you and I agree that there is no fucking GOD, and that we were talking about a creator. If you expect to discuss/argue with me you'll have to stop changing the subject all the time, I can't keep track of your seemingly hurdy gurdy thinking process.

Now would you like to keep talking about this archaic GOD fuck that only exists in the minds of men that would control or be controlled, or would you like to talk about a new theory of the possibility of a creator? Personally, I have no time to discuss man's GOD!

Explain the force of gravity, from an observed perspective.

Explain electromagnetic energy, from an observed perspective.

Explain particles that seem to pop into and out of existence, from an observed perspective.

Explain where the infinite universe came from, if you believe it did not come from anything, explain how it could possibly be that it has always existed, either one from an observed perspective.

Sob , my use of god instead of creator , was just out of habit ,
the world that I know tend to believe they are one and the same ,
so I'm not used to thinking of them as separate concepts ,
I meant to say creator ,but it means the same to me ,,,
So I'll call you Wilber from now on, because to me all male web presenses (cyber-people) are Wilbers, All the female cyber-people are Gertrudes!

GOD is the specific name given to a particular GOD, unlike Zeus, Odin, etc. Would you refer to Zeus as GOD? If so you would confuse your audience. I am not speaking of GOD or a GOD, I'm speaking of "The Creator" Whom is not necessarily a GOD by definition and is also not the GOD by name either. "IT" is "THE CREATOR," I do not want you to attribute GOD like attributes to "THE CREATOR" so please refrain form calling "IT" that, as passerby's shall become confused, as they'll be prone to thinking we are referring to Mans GOD, and we are not!

I shall highlight your text for effect as my comment.

Gravity , no surprises I have my own opinion on that to ,
I believe at the heart of every atom is a little bit of black hole,
minute fragment of matter has so much power ,
the bit in the middle is so small compared to the size of the atom ,
I have to wonder how it is so powerful,
condensed matter , surely the only thing that could be so small and yet so powerful , is the condensed matter from a black hole ,
everything has a attraction to everything else ,
the black hole bits are trying to clump together, but the protons and electron put up a barrier and it takes the likes of a nuclear bomb to force them together causing the bits of black hole to collide ,
There is a simple experiment you could do to demonstrate gravity at work , get a bowl of water place to objects in the water floating not touching or moving ,
leave it for a day or two , and you will find the two objects clumped together
why, is a lot harder to know , but we can know what happens ,
You did not answer my question, because it is your 'opinion,' and you talked all around the force but failed to speak of what constitutes the force itself, because you've never seen it, you don't really 'know' what it is, you just know what other people have told you that it is, which is that, that they defined because of a mathematical 'model,' and nothing more. No man has seen gravity, no man can create gravity, a man has only created a mathematical model that represents the effects of gravity.

Electro magnetic , that to me seems a bit easier ,
we make electric motors and generators , magnets have a field ,
and when you interfere with that field things happen ,
physical movement seems to be part of this equation ,
whether its a spinning core or wind and rain rubbing each other ,
electricity seems to be the result
Again, you did not answer my question, because you failed to speak of what constitutes the force itself. Also, I'm curious as to why you did not talk about the naturally occurring lodestone.

particles that pop in and out of existence ,, makes no sense to me and
I would challenge that statement ,
the particle must be changing from one substance to another ,
rather than it not existing and then it exists from nowhere ,
thats like saying there was nothing before the BB ,
Then you disagree with Quantum Mechanics, but no worries I have issue with some of it as well. They do claim that the subatomic particles do this, into and out of existence dance.

I would repeat my previous quote , Godfrees law ,
"If there was ever a point in the universes history that there was nothing , then nothing is all there would ever be"
Again, you did not answer my question, because you failed to explain how that could be. How could it be that all the universe has always been? Don't just state it, explain it!

Edit: Misspelling!

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 890

Sob ,,
I am pleased that you have enough faith in me that I might answer a question that science has yet to answer ,,INFINITY
A fascinating subject all in it'self ,
How could everything have always existed ,,,???
to understand this we must explore our options ,
what are the possible answers ,
what are the alternatives , we then look at each and decide ,
what we as individuals fell comfortable with or feel is right,
we can't all be astro physicists ,we can't all be experts in the field ,
there are many sayings some very old and some new ,
that could be considered relevant ,
"you can't get something out of nothing"
or as my law states nothing is all there would ever be ,
so lets explore this idea for a second , how could something come from nothing ,is this possible , are there any examples of this we can observe ,??
you made a reference to particles popping in and out of existence ,
I would assume they were just changing not existing then not existing ,
So a big question would be how or what started it , if it started,,???
the answer seems to be it didn't start it always was ,
If we break down matter to it's simplest form , Hydrogen ,
Hydrogen converts to Helium , which converts to Calcium , Potassium , etc
so we can make all the complex elements from the most basic model ,
so matter is really just a single concept , put together in a hundred and something ways, the periodic table
so matter can change and most is in a constant state of change ,
change is the only constant ,
where did all this Hydrogen come from ,,???
I don't know , could it come from nothing , I don't think so ,
If we break down an atom , we get inside the nucleas , to find nutrons and protons , and inside those is Quarks , but thats about as far as we can go at this stage,
basically I think we have two choices ,one it always existed ,
two god created it ,
The decision is fairly easy for me ,,!!!

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:17 pm

Godfree wrote:

Sob ,,
I am pleased that you have enough faith in me that I might answer a question that science has yet to answer ,,INFINITY
I'm not necessarily looking to you for answers, but I believe you deserve a chance to explain your understanding.
A fascinating subject all in it'self ,
How could everything have always existed ,,,???
to understand this we must explore our options ,
what are the possible answers ,
what are the alternatives , we then look at each and decide ,
what we as individuals fell comfortable with or feel is right,
we can't all be astro physicists ,we can't all be experts in the field ,
there are many sayings some very old and some new ,
that could be considered relevant ,
"you can't get something out of nothing"
or as my law states nothing is all there would ever be ,
so lets explore this idea for a second , how could something come from nothing ,is this possible , are there any examples of this we can observe ,??
Do you believe consciousness is a thing, if not what is it, if so it comes from nothing and goes to nothing.

you made a reference to particles popping in and out of existence ,
I would assume they were just changing not existing then not existing ,
So a big question would be how or what started it , if it started,,???
the answer seems to be it didn't start it always was ,
If we break down matter to it's simplest form , Hydrogen ,
Hydrogen converts to Helium , which converts to Calcium , Potassium , etc
so we can make all the complex elements from the most basic model ,
so matter is really just a single concept , put together in a hundred and something ways, the periodic table
so matter can change and most is in a constant state of change ,
change is the only constant ,
where did all this Hydrogen come from ,,???
I don't know , could it come from nothing , I don't think so ,
If we break down an atom , we get inside the nucleas , to find nutrons and protons , and inside those is Quarks , but thats about as far as we can go at this stage,
basically I think we have two choices ,one it always existed ,
two god created it ,
The decision is fairly easy for me ,,!!!
You still don't explain how it could be that it has always existed. You and I once did not exist and one day we won't exist The big bang theory does not necessarily prove that everything came from nothing. It just states that everything came from one thing. I've heard many physicists and cosmologists pose similar questions to: 'What banged?' and 'Where did the stuff that made up the singularity come from?' The thing is that, everything within the universe has an origin, why not the universe itself? Mankind, you and I, as well as the earth, our moon, our star, and our solar system, all have origins.

I say, that a fact that everything always existed, is just as strange as it coming from a central origin point, in the face of the equal possibility that there could have been nothing. Actually nothing seems more probable to me, yet here we are.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 890

Maybe Quarks , the smallest building block of matter we know of,
are too small for us to ever detect , like nutrino's
and if matter is broken down to that level ,
one could argue it doesn't exist because for all purposes ,
it doesn't ,
many argue what is beyond the known universe is not relevant
and we could argue what is too small to register ,
is not relevant ,,???

chaz wyman · **Joined:** Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm **Posts:** 10592

Godfree wrote:

Maybe Quarks , the smallest building block of matter we know of,
are too small for us to ever detect , like nutrino's
and if matter is broken down to that level ,
one could argue it doesn't exist because for all purposes ,
it doesn't ,
many argue what is beyond the known universe is not relevant
and we could argue what is too small to register ,
is not relevant ,,???

So what you are saying is that you are basing your belief system on a thing that does not exist.
Sounds exactly like your Atheism religion.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 890

chaz wyman wrote:

Godfree wrote:

Maybe Quarks , the smallest building block of matter we know of,
are too small for us to ever detect , like nutrino's
and if matter is broken down to that level ,
one could argue it doesn't exist because for all purposes ,
it doesn't ,
many argue what is beyond the known universe is not relevant
and we could argue what is too small to register ,
is not relevant ,,???

So what you are saying is that you are basing your belief system on a thing that does not exist.
Sounds exactly like your Atheism religion.

There has been suggestion that things pop in and out of existence ,
but if matter is breaking down to components so small as to be beyond our ability to detect them , then we would assume they are not there ,
so we would see matter popping in and out of existence as it formed atoms and fell apart again , but the matter is as usual merely being re-arranged ,
Having said that , I believe we should be able to know what exists beyond the known universe ,
it's called logic , if we can't find any examples in the known universe ,
which lets face it is pretty big , then why would we assume when you get out of the known universe everything that we have learned goes out the window,
we could equally assume that it is all the same,
and that the rest of the infinite universe is pretty much the same as the known universe , same laws , same matter , same idiots trying to work it out,,!!!

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:26 pm

Godfree wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:

Godfree wrote:

Maybe Quarks , the smallest building block of matter we know of,
are too small for us to ever detect , like nutrino's
and if matter is broken down to that level ,
one could argue it doesn't exist because for all purposes ,
it doesn't ,
many argue what is beyond the known universe is not relevant
and we could argue what is too small to register ,
is not relevant ,,???

So what you are saying is that you are basing your belief system on a thing that does not exist.
Sounds exactly like your Atheism religion.

There has been suggestion that things pop in and out of existence ,
but if matter is breaking down to components so small as to be beyond our ability to detect them , then we would assume they are not there ,
so we would see matter popping in and out of existence as it formed atoms and fell apart again , but the matter is as usual merely being re-arranged ,
Having said that , I believe we should be able to know what exists beyond the known universe ,
it's called logic , if we can't find any examples in the known universe ,
which lets face it is pretty big , then why would we assume when you get out of the known universe everything that we have learned goes out the window,
we could equally assume that it is all the same,
and that the rest of the infinite universe is pretty much the same as the known universe , same laws , same matter , same idiots trying to work it out,,!!!

I'm sure that an entire multi-volume encyclopedia set of extensive numbers could be filled with the truth that no human knows.
The arrogance of man is a laughing matter! :lol:

Or is that stupidity? :lol:

You gotta love Socrates though:
'I only know that I know nothing'

I believe he was the first and last man to have the right attitude!

Humility!

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 890

So what you are saying is that you are basing your belief system on a thing that does not exist.
Sounds exactly like your Atheism religion.[/quote]
There has been suggestion that things pop in and out of existence ,
but if matter is breaking down to components so small as to be beyond our ability to detect them , then we would assume they are not there ,
so we would see matter popping in and out of existence as it formed atoms and fell apart again , but the matter is as usual merely being re-arranged ,
Having said that , I believe we should be able to know what exists beyond the known universe ,
it's called logic , if we can't find any examples in the known universe ,
which lets face it is pretty big , then why would we assume when you get out of the known universe everything that we have learned goes out the window,
we could equally assume that it is all the same,
and that the rest of the infinite universe is pretty much the same as the known universe , same laws , same matter , same idiots trying to work it out,,!!![/quote]I'm sure that an entire multi-volume encyclopedia set of extensive numbers could be filled with the truth that no human knows.
The arrogance of man is a laughing matter! :lol:

Or is that stupidity? :lol:

You gotta love Socrates though:
'I only know that I know nothing'

I believe he was the first and last man to have the right attitude!

Humility![/quote]
Humility , the act of being humble , submissive ,to the higher power ,
fact is Sob we now a shit load of stuff now ,
and lets face it , in Socrates time , they did know very little,
one of my favourite quotes comes from that time tho ,,
"A common person sees religion as real ,
A wise person sees religion as false ,
and a politician sees religion as useful,"
not much has changed ,
but now we know about the laws of physics ,
we now know if we want to travel to the stars , even our closest one will take 75 to 80 thousand years to get there ,
so we know we are not going to fly ships to the stars ,
we are not going to time travel , travel down worm holes to the other side ,
and we also know that Aliens haven't been here on earth,
for the same reasons that we aren't there visiting them ,
it's just too far , simple as that , there are many things we can't change ,
and the sheer distance between us will keep us isolated ,

The best chance we have is Seti ,
the search for a signal , apart from microbial life ,
which we may find on Mars or one of the other bodies in our solar system,
the only way we will find another intelligence is Seti ,
we aren't going to fly there in the foreseeable future ,
but we may find a signal ,,!!!

Arising_uk · **Joined:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am **Posts:** 10552

Godfree wrote:

...
we now know if we want to travel to the stars , even our closest one will take 75 to 80 thousand years to get there ...

Not really, if we used the Orion nuclear-pulse technology designed in late 50s early 60's and depending which design it'd take anywhere between 44 to 1000 years.

Quote:

so we know we are not going to fly ships to the stars ...

We may well be sending smaller probes tho'.

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:31 am

Godfree wrote:

So what you are saying is that you are basing your belief system on a thing that does not exist.
Sounds exactly like your Atheism religion.

There has been suggestion that things pop in and out of existence ,
but if matter is breaking down to components so small as to be beyond our ability to detect them , then we would assume they are not there ,
so we would see matter popping in and out of existence as it formed atoms and fell apart again , but the matter is as usual merely being re-arranged ,
Having said that , I believe we should be able to know what exists beyond the known universe ,
it's called logic , if we can't find any examples in the known universe ,
which lets face it is pretty big , then why would we assume when you get out of the known universe everything that we have learned goes out the window,
we could equally assume that it is all the same,
and that the rest of the infinite universe is pretty much the same as the known universe , same laws , same matter , same idiots trying to work it out,,!!![/quote]I'm sure that an entire multi-volume encyclopedia set of extensive numbers could be filled with the truth that no human knows.
The arrogance of man is a laughing matter! :lol:

Or is that stupidity? :lol:

You gotta love Socrates though:
'I only know that I know nothing'

I believe he was the first and last man to have the right attitude!

Humility![/quote]
Humility , the act of being humble , submissive ,to the higher power ,
fact is Sob we now a shit load of stuff now ,
and lets face it , in Socrates time , they did know very little,
one of my favourite quotes comes from that time tho ,,
"A common person sees religion as real ,
A wise person sees religion as false ,
and a politician sees religion as useful,"
not much has changed ,
but now we know about the laws of physics ,
we now know if we want to travel to the stars , even our closest one will take 75 to 80 thousand years to get there ,
so we know we are not going to fly ships to the stars ,
we are not going to time travel , travel down worm holes to the other side ,
and we also know that Aliens haven't been here on earth,
for the same reasons that we aren't there visiting them ,
it's just too far , simple as that , there are many things we can't change ,
and the sheer distance between us will keep us isolated ,

The best chance we have is Seti ,
the search for a signal , apart from microbial life ,
which we may find on Mars or one of the other bodies in our solar system,
the only way we will find another intelligence is Seti ,
we aren't going to fly there in the foreseeable future ,
but we may find a signal ,,!!![/quote]
Not quite! We only know now, what we know now, like they knew then, what they knew then, and like that which they thought they knew then, that we know now was false, what we know now, shall be found in the future, to be just as false.

It's common for each generation, each age, to believe that they have reached the pinnacle of understanding in their age, only to be proven incorrect, in the new age's that were yet to come. Of course this shall only continue as long as the balance our planet enjoys is maintained long enough for us to be proven incorrect, at which time we may have personal transportation devices in our living rooms that literally take us to the farthest reaches of the universe in the blink of an eye.

We, of our time, shall have to be content, at the level of understanding that we now enjoy. All that we can do, is ensure that the coming ages have the opportunity, to develop new understandings by helping to maintain the balance that we need to survive ourselves.

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 890

at which time we may have personal transportation devices in our living rooms that literally take us to the farthest reaches of the universe in the blink of an eye.

I hear this type of statement a lot , but really it's about as unlikely as god ,
in the blink of an eye , even more impossible than god ,
and it is this type of claim that I'm saying we have proven to be impossible ,
just like god or heaven , hoping across the universe in the blink of an eye ,
is simply not possible , we can imagine it happening ,
but that doesn't mean it will sooner or later ,
some things will always be impossible ,
it was impossible to hop across the universe in Socrates time ,
and it's still impossible now ,
some people realized god was impossible in Socrates time ,
but the people were too stupid to realize the wisdom in front of them ,
nothings changed , Chaz still refuses to shift off his ignorance ,
stubborn old fool , insists on seeing the worst in my posts ,
trying to trip me up and make my posts out to be things they are not ,
So I do appreciate you said MAY , which does allow for may not ,
would you have a preference or one way or the other ,
do you think it is more or less likely to happen ,
I have a bro who refuses to give up the idea we will fly me to the stars ,
but I think you might as well believe in god ,
cos it's going to take a miracle , if such thing existed ,
to get you across the universe faster than the speed of light ,
we can't even get close to the speed of light ,
the 75 to 8o thousand years is with our current speeds to our nearest star,
we only have a few close ones ,
then we are looking at hundreds of light years ,
hundreds of years getting there , at the speed of light,
it currently takes us about 20thousand years to travel one light year,
fly me to the stars ,, all I can say is your drugs must be better than mine ,,!!

Godfree · **Joined:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:01 am **Posts:** 890

Arising_uk wrote:

Godfree wrote:

...
we now know if we want to travel to the stars , even our closest one will take 75 to 80 thousand years to get there ...

Not really, if we used the Orion nuclear-pulse technology designed in late 50s early 60's and depending which design it'd take anywhere between 44 to 1000 years.

Quote:

so we know we are not going to fly ships to the stars ...

We may well be sending smaller probes tho'.

Yes I have Carl Sagan on tape discussing the various types of rocket ,
the pulse cannon does seem like a good idea ,
I think the solar sail may be the winner tho ,
no fuel required , just a gentle push from the sun ,
I think accelerating at one G is the most obvious ploy ,
solves the bone density problem etc , but the fuel to do so ,
we just can't store enough fuel to sustain that for long enough ,
So in a moment of madness , I came up with a novel solution ,
this is not something I think will happen , but I see it as possible ,,!!!
We take the moon ,
it's going anyway , slowly but surely it is going to bugger off at some point in the future , so why not set up some massive engines and give it a helping hand , a little nudge at the right time and we could slingshot our way out of the solar system and away ,
but before Chaz tells me I'm crazy , it's just a wee fantasy for fun ,,Chaz ,
the moons got Helium three so we have a power source ,
we could have tunnel houses running lights powered by the Helium three ,
but as I say , I don't get these types of dreaming mixed up with my reality ,
I can tell the difference and don't try and mix them ,,,!!!

SpheresOfBalance · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:45 am

Godfree wrote:

at which time we may have personal transportation devices in our living rooms that literally take us to the farthest reaches of the universe in the blink of an eye.

I hear this type of statement a lot , but really it's about as unlikely as god ,
in the blink of an eye , even more impossible than god ,
and it is this type of claim that I'm saying we have proven to be impossible ,
just like god or heaven , hoping across the universe in the blink of an eye ,
is simply not possible , we can imagine it happening ,
but that doesn't mean it will sooner or later ,
some things will always be impossible ,
it was impossible to hop across the universe in Socrates time ,
and it's still impossible now ,
some people realized god was impossible in Socrates time ,
but the people were too stupid to realize the wisdom in front of them ,
nothings changed , Chaz still refuses to shift off his ignorance ,
stubborn old fool , insists on seeing the worst in my posts ,
trying to trip me up and make my posts out to be things they are not ,
So I do appreciate you said MAY , which does allow for may not ,
would you have a preference or one way or the other ,
do you think it is more or less likely to happen ,
I have a bro who refuses to give up the idea we will fly me to the stars ,
but I think you might as well believe in god ,
cos it's going to take a miracle , if such thing existed ,
to get you across the universe faster than the speed of light ,
we can't even get close to the speed of light ,
the 75 to 8o thousand years is with our current speeds to our nearest star,
we only have a few close ones ,
then we are looking at hundreds of light years ,
hundreds of years getting there , at the speed of light,
it currently takes us about 20thousand years to travel one light year,
fly me to the stars ,, all I can say is your drugs must be better than mine ,,!!

Godfree,
I thank you for noting that I used the word 'may,' as I always try and do this, because the truth is, I just don't know, of course, how could I possibly?
It, of course, was more about the point! The point that we have always grown in understanding and that we can't possibly know today what tomorrow shall bring, unless you believe in crystal balls, and have one that you use, if so, let me see it, you're using it wrong. ;-)

Sure, I'm a hopeful, that if we don't kill ourselves off first, we have the potential of becoming something great, and of course I hope that we make it there one day. But with the current state of affairs, I'm worried that we may not! Maybe with another incarnation, but this one seems to be too idiotic.

I still see you thinking from inside that box that mankind has placed you, which is your prerogative.
Have you ever asked yourself why you've chosen to believe those things that man has given you and why you've chosen to not believe those things that man has given you? I'm assuming that you'll say "mans logic." While I'm somewhat the same as you, in that I stick by my guns, so to speak, you seem more rigid. And I mean especially with those topics that are way beyond us, i.e., the universe and the possibility of a creator.

I guess it can make one feel important that they believe they've figured it all out. I do not suffer from that delusion. I'm fine with not 'knowing' the answers to the biggest questions and leaving it up to possibilities, yet to be uncovered. It allows me to explore my imagination, and that's a lot of fun, and who knows...? ;-)

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