What would you think of such a world?

[Lacewing]

Imagine a world in which men are subjugated by women for thousands of years. God would be defined as female, making females in her own image, and casting males as inferior -– and there would be a big storybook passed down through generations to prove it. In that world, women would commonly abuse men and boys at all ages... in their own families, in their workplaces, in schools, in public, in private, in churches... everywhere. Males would be routinely bought and sold and handled and spoken to as if they were little more than objects to be used by the females. In society, males would not be given the same rights or recognition or value as females. If the males asked for truth or justice, they would be punished – OR – their claims would be treated as highly suspect and inconvenient, and the females would either dismiss it entirely or try to steal away sympathy for themselves by saying “I made a mistake”, or by claiming themselves to be a victim of a smear campaign. All the while, a large majority of females would be so obsessed and intoxicated with their own pleasure and power and importance that they would consider their desires justified or excused, even if that resulted in ongoing abuse of others, neglect of their own character and relationships and planet, and evils and distortions committed in the name of, or despite, their god.

What would you think of such a world?

[Greta]

That's about the size of it

It is a world that quite a few men on this site prefer not to contemplate, given their seeming allegiance to philosophy's long history of misogyny and treatment of women as cardboard cutouts in a world made by men.

[Dubious]

Imagine a world in which men are subjugated by women for thousands of years. God would be defined as female, making females in her own image, and casting males as inferior -– and there would be a big storybook passed down through generations to prove it. In that world, women would commonly abuse men and boys at all ages... in their own families, in their workplaces, in schools, in public, in private, in churches... everywhere. Males would be routinely bought and sold and handled and spoken to as if they were little more than objects to be used by the females. In society, males would not be given the same rights or recognition or value as females. If the males asked for truth or justice, they would be punished – OR – their claims would be treated as highly suspect and inconvenient, and the females would either dismiss it entirely or try to steal away sympathy for themselves by saying “I made a mistake”, or by claiming themselves to be a victim of a smear campaign. All the while, a large majority of females would be so obsessed and intoxicated with their own pleasure and power and importance that they would consider their desires justified or excused, even if that resulted in ongoing abuse of others, neglect of their own character and relationships and planet, and evils and distortions committed in the name of, or despite, their god.

What would you think of such a world?

...in short, females would be no better than the male of the species. If there's one thing that denotes equality, it must be that we're equally obnoxious.

[Lacewing]

...in short, females would be no better than the male of the species. If there's one thing that denotes equality, it must be that we're equally obnoxious.

If such a world existed with women subjugating men, then yes, those females would be no better than men. However, it seems unlikely that females would manifest such a world (they're not driven/consumed by the same things)... whereas such a world HAS been manifested (and is maintained) by a large majority of men, throughout history and right now. I thought it would be interesting for males to consider what such a world would be like for them to live in if the circumstances were switched. I'm guessing it's very distasteful, if not impossible, for them to consider. Our MAN-made world really is that unbalanced... and many men have no real clue.

[-1-]

Referring to the opening post: the entire world was exactly like that for about 90000 years (ninety-thousand years) in humanity's pre-historic development, with males only surging to dominance about 10000 (ten thousand) years ago, and only in small parts of the world at first .

In prehistoric, pre-agricultural times, men hunted and women gathered. Hunted food tasted better and was more precious, but gathered food was more plentiful, more sustainably secured, and more reliable to be secured. Hunted food was a rare occasion for humans.

Therefore tribal decisions, about the affairs of the tribe, both internal and external, was decided exclusively either by a leading matriarch or matron, or else by a council of women. Men were excluded from decision making.

In family life, men were subjugated, the missionary position was never explored, in sex the women were always on top position. It was the women who decided when it was time for sex.

Men had autonomy only in weapon-making, and in fire-making. This sounds exciting, but actually, they were boring jobs, and fire making was a really strenuous, boring, menial, stupid work.

This lasted from roughly 100,000 years ago until the advent of agriculture.

In agriculture, the men became the breadwinners. They tilled the earth, they harvested the wheat and other grain cereals, they tamed and killed and slaughtered domesticated wild animals for food consumption. These tasks were physically hard for women, and because now the food on the table depended on the work of the man, the man became the boss.

War and warfare existed in prehistoric times, and the fighting was carried out by men. They were simply stronger, so made better warriors. But the decision whom to fight, when, and where, was in the hands of women.

Once agriculture started, the fight was not only over who has the right to graze or hunt over a land, but things could be robbed from each other on a community-vs-community level. In prehistoric times, no substantial amount of wealth could be accumulated by tribes or by individuals, other than having clothes, a few amulettes, and perhaps a piece of interesting looking rock. In agricultural times, stores of food and other goods were kept. Animals were kept alive to be eaten later or to be used for work. These were an incredible large step of survival advantage over hunting and gathering. So they were much more valuable and demanded a more stable and organized army to protect.

Etc.

So all this whining by women how male domination has to stop: you ladies still have 90 thousand years over our men's ten thousand years of domination and being the main executive power.

[Lacewing]

you ladies still have 90 thousand years over our men's ten thousand years of domination and being the main executive power.

When women held the executive power, were men and boys continually sexually abused in every area of society and life?

So all this whining by women how male domination has to stop...

Oh, I see. Then yes, by all means CARRY ON... for there we have the justification and the male response.

Forget about balance and what is right... just stop "whining", right?

[Lacewing]

Referring to the opening post: the entire world was exactly like that for about 90000 years (ninety-thousand years) in humanity's pre-historic development, with males only surging to dominance about 10000 (ten thousand) years ago, and only in small parts of the world at first .

From this, what can we deduce about the male God?

[-1-]

Referring to the opening post: the entire world was exactly like that for about 90000 years (ninety-thousand years) in humanity's pre-historic development, with males only surging to dominance about 10000 (ten thousand) years ago, and only in small parts of the world at first .

From this, what can we deduce about the male God?

The male God is 5 to 10 thousand years old. There used to be female gods, before that. Plus, there was pluralism, not monotheism.

[Lacewing]

The male God is 5 to 10 thousand years old. There used to be female gods, before that. Plus, there was pluralism, not monotheism.

Then I guess he can't be the ultimate creator because he's still young on the scene of creation. And he's clearly a creation of males.

[-1-]

you ladies still have 90 thousand years over our men's ten thousand years of domination and being the main executive power.

When women held the executive power, were men and boys continually sexually abused in every area of society and life?

Response by -1-: Yes. Inasmuch as women and girls are continually sexually abused 24-7 without stoppage in today's life.

What I mean is that I want to sarcastically express that "continually sexually abused" is a huge, and very, very insulting overstatement and unjust judgment over all men. You'd better retract this, please. No woman or girl is continually sexually abused, and most women and girls never get sexually abused at all in their entire life. You please take this statement back. I ask you.

So all this whining by women how male domination has to stop...

Oh, I see. Then yes, by all means CARRY ON... for there we have the justification and the male response.

Forget about balance and what is right... just stop "whining", right?

Response by -1-: No, you lady. DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THE BALANCE AND WHAT IS RIGHT. The balance is the most important thing I want to emphasize here. 90 thousand years of female domination over males... vs ten thousand years of male domination over females. THIS IS THE BALANCE: 90,000 YEARS AGAINST 10,000 YEARS. I certainly do not want you to forget this balance.

Yes, I know, you very much want to forget this balance... if there were only one way. But there is no way I'll let you.

You women still owe us men 80,000 years of domination over you. What is fair is fair. You owe this to us, before equality could be established on the balance sheet.

And I won't forget to keep asking you to please retract the insinuation by you that women and girls get continually sexually abused by males. Please retract this.

[Lacewing]

When women held the executive power, were men and boys continually sexually abused in every area of society and life?

Response by -1-: Yes. Inasmuch as women and girls are continually sexually abused 24-7 without stoppage in today's life.

I used the words "continually sexually abused" because I suspected you were going to simply say "Yes, men and boys were surely sexually abused" -- and I wanted to make a pre-emptive point that it could not have been anything at all like what we are experiencing during the reign of men -- which is an ongoing and continual condition. Continual does not mean 24-7, so why do I need to retract what I said?

I know that it is not 24/7 for all women and girls -- but IT IS an outrageous and inexcusable pattern and frequency, which is seen as "normal" in many areas of life. Do you agree with this?

Response by -1-: The balance is the most important thing I want to emphasize here. 90 thousand years of female domination over males... vs ten thousand years of male domination over females. THIS IS THE BALANCE: 90,000 YEARS AGAINST 10,000 YEARS. I certainly do not want you to forget this balance.

That is an absurd rationalization. Male-domination is very likely going to wipe out humanity and the planet before we ever reach the 90,000 year mark.

[Eodnhoj7]

Imagine a world in which men are subjugated by women for thousands of years. God would be defined as female, making females in her own image, and casting males as inferior -– and there would be a big storybook passed down through generations to prove it. In that world, women would commonly abuse men and boys at all ages... in their own families, in their workplaces, in schools, in public, in private, in churches... everywhere. Males would be routinely bought and sold and handled and spoken to as if they were little more than objects to be used by the females. In society, males would not be given the same rights or recognition or value as females. If the males asked for truth or justice, they would be punished – OR – their claims would be treated as highly suspect and inconvenient, and the females would either dismiss it entirely or try to steal away sympathy for themselves by saying “I made a mistake”, or by claiming themselves to be a victim of a smear campaign. All the while, a large majority of females would be so obsessed and intoxicated with their own pleasure and power and importance that they would consider their desires justified or excused, even if that resulted in ongoing abuse of others, neglect of their own character and relationships and planet, and evils and distortions committed in the name of, or despite, their god.

What would you think of such a world?

Completely absent of structure as everything would be based around worship of "the void". I am assuming you are simply just reversing the current state of things through the question: "What would happen if women did what men currently do"? The simple answer is they never could have that power, because the current structure as already based around women already...using the aforemention examples you provided.

We can see this in the form of emotional reasoning, currently observed in not only politics but at the cultural level through advertising, and what it leads to is chaos.

Why? Because men under such circumstance self-destruct in order to destroy the society around them. Women are incapable of true self-destruction. When a man experiences an environment that is not balanced in nature, he takes that creative impulse and transmutes it into death and destruction. Women on the otherhand, as nurturers, simply are just neutralized and neither exist nor do not exist.

If you are asking what a man would feel in regards to all of this? Just take a look at a burning city with everyone running around screaming in despair. Women complain about things they do not like, men simply just destroy everything including themselves.

[Lacewing]

Because men under such circumstance self-destruct in order to destroy the society around them. Women are incapable of true self-destruction. When a man experiences an environment that is not balanced in nature, he takes that creative impulse and transmutes it into death and destruction. Women on the otherhand, as nurturers, simply are just neutralized and neither exist nor do not exist.

If you are asking what a man would feel in regards to all of this? Just take a look at a burning city with everyone running around screaming in despair. Women complain about things they do not like, men simply just destroy everything including themselves.

Ah!! Very interesting! So... women's and men's heavens and hells are different, yes?

[Plato's Rock]

I want to tilt at this windmill, but I also know I really shouldn't.

Personally, I don't think that said world would be much different other than the perceived switch in gender roles. To me, my thoughts which have caused problems with friends, is that we should approach this from the "Veil of Ignorance" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance ). In which no one has a say in who they are, but they have to "design a just society". They did this in at least one videogame (Rust), and it apparently caused an uproar. The player's avatars were "randomly" based upon their steam handles...etc. And male players ended up with female avatars. Races were mixed up...etc. Still caused an uproar...because people could be who they wanted to be in some aspect, I imagine. I never played Rust, but I've heard the interactions are trollish regardless of gender (or perceived appearance).

Taking this idea, and actually applying it to this conversation. I would like to say, that in most circumstances, people take the easier route which is often the selfish route. And being that there is often no "oversight/accountability" when one becomes an adult....who's to blame them? There's no one to take anyone to task for a perceived slight from another party. This all sort of falls into the Ring of Gyges category. If you had the option of being an asshole to someone without repercussion (which is often the case), would you choose to do it? There's no one to condemn a person for instance if they cut of that tailgating bastard behind them...etc.

Building along with the flow of the conversation, yes, women's and men's Heaven's and Hell's are different, but it's also going to very dramatically from person to person. For instance, one of the odder fantasies I used to entertain while growing up was...what would it be like to be a male "Stag/Stud"? That I would've been essentially mounted to a "rack", and used solely for reproductive means....Is this similar to the perception of some men's of having women only being good for children? Perhaps, but it also ties into the notion that we often use and abuse those who are at our discretion. Regardless of their character, and our best intentions.

The point I'd like to make overall, is none of us had a choice in any of our "Traits/Qualities"...only in how we choose to interact with others, and our self.

[Lacewing]

Personally, I don't think that said world would be much different other than the perceived switch in gender roles.

Well, it does seem that men and women are very different, doesn't it? They have different priorities... and different things that fulfill them... and different strengths and weaknesses. So wouldn't it seem that their societies would reflect such differences too?

I'm wondering why men think that women would think and behave the same way as men... when they don't in almost every other regard?

Could it be that men don't want to feel bad for how terribly and unfairly women and girls are treated? So they justify it by saying, women would be that way too? I don't think that's true. It's not your fault... or any single man's fault, that this is where we are. But it IS fucked up... and it really needs to change. We need to evolve beyond this. We fell into some gender patterns... like a bad marriage... and it's not the best of ourselves. We're losing out on a lot.

If you had the option of being an asshole to someone without repercussion (which is often the case), would you choose to do it?

If I thought they deserved it, yes. I have no desire to be an asshole to someone for no reason, though. It's not like I have all of this energy built up waiting to explode at someone. A lot of people seem to, though. They spew venom indiscriminately. I like to be more focused with mine.

yes, women's and men's Heaven's and Hell's are different, but it's also going to very dramatically from person to person.

That's true. I just think it's interesting to consider that Christians might define Heaven and Hell as being the same for all... when actually, women and men want very different things. For example, generally speaking... Heaven for a woman is loving and being truly loved. Heaven for a man is screwing a bunch of virgins. The Christian descriptions of Heaven don't seem to take this into account.

For instance, one of the odder fantasies I used to entertain while growing up was...what would it be like to be a male "Stag/Stud"? That I would've been essentially mounted to a "rack", and used solely for reproductive means....

As a man, or a beast, or half of each? That's erotic! (That's actually an idea for one of my books I want to write.) See... that's a male Heaven. A woman wouldn't want that... although she might like to visit the male Heaven.

The point I'd like to make overall, is none of us had a choice in any of our "Traits/Qualities"...only in how we choose to interact with others, and our self.

That's a good point. I do tend to hold people highly responsible for how they choose to interact with others... and what they spread around. Some people act like bloated nutjobs, and I think it's valuable (and fun) to bring that to their attention.