Homosexuality.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Dontaskme »

tbieter wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
Harbal wrote:The thought of having a sexually physical relationship with someone of the same sex as me is something I find distasteful. Does this mean I should condemn homosexuality? The thing is: I quite often encounter people of the opposite sex to me with whom the thought of having a sexually physical relationship is equally distasteful. Does this mean I should, at least to some extent, condemn heterosexuality?
In anticipation of the probable response to this: yes, I'm sure there are many people, of both sexes, who would find the thought of having a sexually physical relationship with me rather unpalatable.
Perhaps you find it same sex sex ..and or opposite sex sex distasteful because you are resisting the reality of it. And you can't quite deal with the true reality that sex is a natural function of nature and nothing can be done to stop the situation?
Herbal's sense of repugnance toward the thought is also natural. The philosopher, Yves Simon, suggested that this reaction was some evidence supporting the existence of a natural law. The person is supposed to infer a wrongness of the homosexual act from the repugnance.
Yes, I absolutely agree with you tbieter.

There must be A natural law permeating as and through the mechanism of the human mind capable of rational conscientious thinking and problem solving. Why would such an intelligent mind come into existence at all ... Why is there a highly intelligent creative mind functioning as a human being and not as any other sentient creature?

So just what on earth makes a human being desire to have sex with it's same gender...are they born that way...or are they mentally damaged by some emotional trauma that happened to them or if not to them but bore witness to some other person's trauma? ....how can we know why they do what they do, how can we know what's going on in their mind?


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Dontaskme
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Dontaskme »

uwot wrote: So I take it things haven't worked out great on the personal relationship level. Has it ever crossed your mind, that perhaps this explains your denial of individuality?
Well first of all I've known since I was about 6/7 years old that life is Nondual...I instinctively knew there is only one of us here....but obviously I had to live in a society governed by man-made rules, expectations and individual egos that seemed to be just about out for themselves ... I was happy to conform to societies collective belief structures and regimes and not be rebellious against them just so that I would fit in with the status quo...and so lived my life being swept along the river of life with the rest of the people and didn't really think I had much choice in the matter.

My childhood was great and the middle part of my life I was in a very happy and loving relationship with my wedded partner for 18 years and had 4 wonderful children...when that marriage ended, I knew I could not possibly ever find another person to fill the void left by that unrequited LOVE I had for that person. I didn't choose to end it, I loved my partner and my married arrangement. So again when that ended I made the decision to go it alone.

And that's when I started to look at Nonduality again. I thought to myself..okay, I may have missed out on finding a physical soul-mate in the world, but I did have Nonduality to fall back on...and that's when I found God. It was like when one door closed another one opened, I found God and it was the best thing that ever happened to me...it was even better that believing in the illusion of ever trying to find a worldly soul-mate...which was nice while it lasted, but what I have now is much more beautiful, it's a love that is going to last for eternity. I learned to love myself, and everything else was just an added bonus which I didn't really need, but my cup continued to run over and now I'm overwhelmed with the amount of love in my life.


.sorry for the rant...
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Dontaskme
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Dontaskme »

Harbal wrote:The thought of having a sexually physical relationship with someone of the same sex as me is something I find distasteful. Does this mean I should condemn homosexuality? The thing is: I quite often encounter people of the opposite sex to me with whom the thought of having a sexually physical relationship is equally distasteful. Does this mean I should, at least to some extent, condemn heterosexuality?

I'll have another go at this topic.

You seem to be asking is it okay to CONDEMN something you personally find distasteful?

My response is..yes you can condemn anything that you find distasteful ..why not?

What is the big deal here? what is the actual point you are trying to make? I still don't really get what you are attempting to make us aware of?
uwot
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by uwot »

Dontaskme wrote:Well first of all I've known since I was about 6/7 years old that life is Nondual...I instinctively knew there is only one of us here....
Right, before we go any further, how can you say the above, and square it with this:
Dontaskme wrote:So just what on earth makes a human being desire to have sex with it's same gender..
Dontaskme wrote:.sorry for the rant...
Nothing against rants, I do it myself, frequently, but incoherent, hypocritical bullshit is more of a bother.
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Harbal
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: What is the big deal here? what is the actual point you are trying to make? I still don't really get what you are attempting to make us aware of?
I heard something on the news about gays being persecuted in Chechnya. It seems to be a big deal there. I must say, Dontaskme, some of your comments so far show a surprising lack of insight.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Dontaskme »

uwot wrote: Right, before we go any further, how can you say the above, and square it with this:
''So just what on earth makes a human being desire to have sex with it's same gender..''
A very good question uwot.

My response to you is .. as this dream character aka Dontaskme..I know I am the dreamer of myself which cannot be known, but is evidenced in the experience of sensation and such...I also know that I am a known character in my dream ...So I play the dream character as if that character actually existed even though I know there is no one really choosing or doing anything, but for the sake of communication with my fellow dream characters here ...I play the game of duality and I make statements like ..I wonder what makes them choose to have sex with the same gender as themselves... ?

Does that help?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Dontaskme »

Harbal wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: What is the big deal here? what is the actual point you are trying to make? I still don't really get what you are attempting to make us aware of?
I heard something on the news about gays being persecuted in Chechnya. It seems to be a big deal there. I must say, Dontaskme, some of your comments so far show a surprising lack of insight.
Well I'm sorry if my lack of insight appears to be distasteful to you.

But what can I do about how others choose to perceive reality ? ...the world is only ever how we are, not how it actually is...I don't have a problem with the world or how others treat each other... so it doesn't affect me, quite frankly how others choose to perceive the world is none of my business.

The only insight that is of value to me, is a Nondual insight, which in my opinion is the end of all human suffering.
uwot
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by uwot »

Dontaskme wrote:Does that help?
A bit. I think it's complete nonsense, and I understand you believe it, but how does it work with this?
Dontaskme wrote:...are they born that way...or are they mentally damaged by some emotional trauma that happened to them or if not to them but bore witness to some other person's trauma? ....how can we know why they do what they do, how can we know what's going on in their mind?
As I understand it, 'they' are dual and have minds of their own, when there are too many pricks, or not enough.
Walker
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Walker »

- When attention shifted to Ritalin, prescriptions for Ritalin soared.

- When attention shifted to pleasing the customer rather than the health of the customer, opioid prescriptions soared and folks got addicted. Addicted folks enslaved by the compulsion turn to heroin when the script runs out.

- Gay rights are simply legal partnership rights. The theory is, everyone is entitled to equal legal rights, and partnership based on sex is discriminatory, and thus illegal.

- This theory is wrong, for the following reason.

- Not everyone is entitled to be legally married to each other.
- To be married requires a license.
- Requirements must be met to obtain a license.
- Why is this so?

- Because in principle, in all societies small and large, marriage exists to serve the society. Benefit to the individuals is secondary.

- Notions of romance and living happily ever after, propogated by stories told in movies and print, have corrupted this principle for Westerners, and Bollywood is doing its part, too.

- People now think love is the reason for marriage.
Fall in love, get married.

- Ususally young people think this way.
- Older people have more opportunity to be less slavish to compulsion.
- However, corruption of the principle does not negate the principle.

- Marriage is principally for the benefit of society.

- Society says who can legally marry, and if the folks involved don’t ever get around to it, then society assigns a legal designation commonly called common-law marriage, for some functionary legal purposes.

- If a society determines that it is for the benefit of society for same sex couples to be afforded the legal rights of partnership, then so be it.

- The question is, what if society determines that herd animals should enjoy the same benefits? Should it then be so?

- If yes, then it is for each to determine their role in a society that may not be of their choosing, but rather is the society of the most vocal and influential.

- For instance, deny your society’s right to prescribe the Ritalin that the society determines is medically most beneficial for your child, and these days that could be grounds for a legal battle, with you as the defendant.

- This principle of benefit to the society as determined by the society is also why in some societies, it is perfectly legal for a man to beat the hell out of his wife and kids.

- This principle of benefit to the society as determined by the society is also why in some societies, men can marry men, women can marry women, and all get to enjoy the legal rights of partnership, right up until the divorces are finalized.

- When societal attention shifted to homosexuality, largely through the efforts of a small and vocal minority of intelligent political activists, then homosexuality became fashionable.


- The question is, why does the eagerness to medicate children with Ritalin, for whatever symptoms they are showing, exist alongside the reluctance to medicate boys who think they are girls, and vicey versa?
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Harbal
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Harbal »

Dontaskme wrote: Well first of all I've known since I was about 6/7 years old that life is Nondual...I instinctively knew there is only one of us here....but obviously I had to live in a society governed by man-made rules, expectations and individual egos that seemed to be just about out for themselves ... I was happy to conform to societies collective belief structures and regimes and not be rebellious against them just so that I would fit in with the status quo...and so lived my life being swept along the river of life with the rest of the people and didn't really think I had much choice in the matter.
This doesn't conform to "normality" any more than homosexuality does. I wonder what made you like that.
.are they born that way...or are they mentally damaged by some emotional trauma that happened to them or if not to them but bore witness to some other person's trauma? ....how can we know why they do what they do, how can we know what's going on in their mind?
uwot
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by uwot »

Walker wrote:- Because in principle, in all societies small and large, marriage exists to serve the society. Benefit to the individuals is secondary.
So how does marriage benefit society?
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Dontaskme »

Harbal wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: Well first of all I've known since I was about 6/7 years old that life is Nondual...I instinctively knew there is only one of us here....but obviously I had to live in a society governed by man-made rules, expectations and individual egos that seemed to be just about out for themselves ... I was happy to conform to societies collective belief structures and regimes and not be rebellious against them just so that I would fit in with the status quo...and so lived my life being swept along the river of life with the rest of the people and didn't really think I had much choice in the matter.
This doesn't conform to "normality" any more than homosexuality does. I wonder what made you like that.
.are they born that way...or are they mentally damaged by some emotional trauma that happened to them or if not to them but bore witness to some other person's trauma? ....how can we know why they do what they do, how can we know what's going on in their mind?
Okay then, that's my point, we have no way of knowing anything about the why's or how's things are the way they are or happen the way they do...only that they do, the mind will claim this is happening to me me me all day long and make judgements about what's normal and what's not, about what's ethical and what's not, what's moral or immoral, yet reality is not like that...the contents of the mind is a fiction, none of our thoughts are real, thoughts are just imagined musings, here today gone tomorrow.
Walker
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Walker »

Q: So how does marriage benefit society?

A: That depends on the society, doesn't it. Used to be a blood test was required to benefit the USofA society against the spread of syphilis and its effects upon the society. Today, many things are common and accepted that once were not. Take the bad with whatever good resulted.

Q: How does homosexual marriage benefit society?
uwot
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by uwot »

Walker wrote:Used to be a blood test was required to benefit the USofA society against the spread of syphilis and its effects upon the society.
Prior to marriage?
Walker wrote:Today, many things are common and accepted that once were not. Take the bad with whatever good resulted.
And vice versa; hardly anyone has a good word for slavery anymore.
Walker wrote:Q: How does homosexual marriage benefit society?
I don't think it does, but frankly I don't care what people call their relationships with others.
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Walker »

uwot wrote:
Walker wrote:Used to be a blood test was required to benefit the USofA society against the spread of syphilis and its effects upon the society.
Prior to marriage?
Walker wrote:Today, many things are common and accepted that once were not. Take the bad with whatever good resulted.
And vice versa; hardly anyone has a good word for slavery anymore.
Walker wrote:Q: How does homosexual marriage benefit society?
I don't think it does, but frankly I don't care what people call their relationships with others.
Yes, prior, as a requirement to be compliant with the rules for being legally licensed. There were also other rules such as age, which was determined by the society.

- Obviously, as with many depending on the functional frequency of awareness, the pursuit of homosexual rights is the pursuit of individual rights for the benefit of the individual, and not for society. It is so in all things, not just homosexual rights, since rights for society are commonly called, responsibilities.

- Thus, without further evidence to the contrary, we can only conclude that without any benefit to society, homosexual rights seek benefit without cost.

- Such a notion runs contrary to Newton’s Law that observes: for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.

- For in truth, all benefits come at a cost, to someone, at some time in the future, with no statute of limitations.

- Society, with its wisdom of laws and rules and regulations, determines who pays when and where, under threat of penalty.
- Otherwise, what you do is your business.

- Then again, perhaps there are benefits to a homosexual relationship for society that remain hidden by a horizon that extends no further than what one can grab for oneself. Who knows. Ain't my cup of tea.
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