Homosexuality.

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:52 am

And yet they are challenged upon every thread they post here?

What you want is for someone else to silence them, how does that help things?

davidm
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by davidm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:22 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:52 am
And yet they are challenged upon every thread they post here?

What you want is for someone else to silence them, how does that help things?
Yes, these cretins should be banned from a philosophy forum, IMO.

"Free speech" is a political concept, in the U.S. embodied in the First Amendment. But this place is not a government. This is a privately owned philosophy forum. It has no obligation to give a free platform (paid for by the owners of the site) to spew bigotry and bile, any more than I have an obligation to let some asshat into my home and sit idly by while he rants about "coloreds" and "trannies." Were I to invite someone into my home and he were to do that, I would kick his ass out.

Now obviously the people who run this place don't see it that way, and that's fine -- except, very mysteriously, threads disappear without explanation, and the evolution thread was locked without explanation. So let's not let the people who run this site pretend they are devoted to unfettered free speech.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:29 am

davidm wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:22 am
Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:52 am
And yet they are challenged upon every thread they post here?

What you want is for someone else to silence them, how does that help things?
Yes, these cretins should be banned from a philosophy forum, IMO.

"Free speech" is a political concept, in the U.S. embodied in the First Amendment. But this place is not a government. This is a privately owned philosophy forum. It has no obligation to give a free platform (paid for by the owners of the site) to spew bigotry and bile, any more than I have an obligation to let some asshat into my home and sit idly by while he rants about "coloreds" and "trannies." Were I to invite someone into my home and he were to do that, I would kick his ass out.
While I'd actually agree with you that there's been an influx of people over the past few weeks I'd also consider 'cretins,' I think you're only fooling yourself with justifying that by saying we're a private entity. What you're suggesting still goes against the 'spirit' of free speech, and it's a pretty slippery slope to quickly make a place into an echo-chamber, because people aren't typically so subtle in their judgement. They will go for anyone who's post can even be interpreted as racist, and not just the most outward examples. At least those are my concerns.

AMod
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by AMod » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:38 pm

davidm,
davidm wrote: Now obviously the people who run this place don't see it that way, and that's fine -- except, very mysteriously, threads disappear without explanation, and the evolution thread was locked without explanation.
Try reading the PM I sent you.
So let's not let the people who run this site pretend they are devoted to unfettered free speech.
We don't and we aren't but by and large we allow a lot of latitude compared to other philosophy forums. This may change given instructions from upon high.

Me, I'd ban most of you.

AMod.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: there's the root...

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:08 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:30 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:34 pm
Why do you want special treatment?
Everyone deserves special treatment, based on their own unique crimes.
davidm wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:52 pm
Nope! Read around a bit. Every form of bigotry, and every fuckwit bigot, is happily accommodated here, numerous threads being plastered with such posts. Heck, here, blacks are even called coloreds again -- shades of Jim Crow 1960!
I am probably the least bigotted person on here.
I hate Whites, Blacks, Gays and Straights. I hate them all. I remember all the crimes of humanity, I do not forgive, I do not forget.
trashed and abused by straights all my life, even an attempted rape by a superior officer who knew I was gay, and assaulted me in my quarters one night by shouting homophobic insults at me at the same time trying to tear my clothes off--boy did he have some cognitive dissonance problems!
I think you are the one with cognitive dissonance, because you just try to imply that your bisexual or gay superior officer was straight.
"Ive been harassed by straight people so much, one of them wanted to have sex with me!"
Naw man. If they want to have sex with your macho, beard booty, they aren't straight.

And I am welcome to my opinion. 95% of gay porn nauseates me. And so actually I'm the victim of it. It seems like the gay lifestyle is shoved in my face, lusting after men seems more culturally acceptable in america than lusting after women. Like if I lust after women, they shame me and say I'm not a true transsexual, but if lust after men they celebrate and give me a sticker. But even for heterosexual men, if they lust after women, they get shamed and accused they objectify women, but if they lust after men, people celebrate and give them a sticker.

It really has nothing to do with morals, ethics or even politics. I have no problem with lesbian porn. Its just when I go on porn sites, and I accidentally see a gay porn ad, it nauseates me, doesnt look or feel right to me. Has nothing to do with morals ethics or politics whatsoever, its just my inherent natural reflex to it.
I wish the Monitors would establish an LGBT site which would be inhabited by us perverts--while straight tourists were welcome to visit and read, but to think twice before posting their insights, thus rushing in where angels fear to tread--with an LGBT monitor.
And it seems your LGBT agenda is just to facist censor and dictate everyone's opinions, and silence all outsiders, like the straight people used to do in the 60's, the straight people you love to complain about...well you are acting exactly the same as them. Like I said, I never forgive the crimes of humanity.
Loud applause from me. When you're good you're really good 👏

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:13 pm

davidm wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:22 am
Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:52 am
And yet they are challenged upon every thread they post here?

What you want is for someone else to silence them, how does that help things?
Yes, these cretins should be banned from a philosophy forum, IMO.

"Free speech" is a political concept, in the U.S. embodied in the First Amendment. But this place is not a government. This is a privately owned philosophy forum. It has no obligation to give a free platform (paid for by the owners of the site) to spew bigotry and bile, any more than I have an obligation to let some asshat into my home and sit idly by while he rants about "coloreds" and "trannies." Were I to invite someone into my home and he were to do that, I would kick his ass out.

Now obviously the people who run this place don't see it that way, and that's fine -- except, very mysteriously, threads disappear without explanation, and the evolution thread was locked without explanation. So let's not let the people who run this site pretend they are devoted to unfettered free speech.
Perhaps it's because the mods are a darn sight more intelligent and perceptive than you are.

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henry quirk
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open letter to all who share xman's view

Post by henry quirk » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:45 pm

"acceptance for my own community"

Hey, I recognize you're human, an individual, a self-directing agent, and that's all I'm gonna recognize cuz anything else is manure.

Life ain't perfect for you, mebbe a little (or a lot) worse than it is for other folks.

Well, how is this fact shiny and new?

Far as I can tell, every last soul got troubles. Some big, some small; some real, some imagined; some self-inflicted, some other-inflicted.

It is what it is.

Do what you think you need to do to make the world a 'better place'...chase that rainbow.

But don't think your fervor obiligates one other to lift a single friggin' finger in service to what you believe is right (cuz -- brace yourself -- you might be wrong).

Me, as long as you ain't takin' food off my table or money out my pocket, I don't give a flip what you do.

Understand this: I'm all for 'mind your own goddamned business, keep your friggin' hands to yourself...or else'. I try real hard to live by this...absolutely it's what I expect from folks around me.

What I got no time at all for is bein' told my indifference isn't enough...that, instead, I must 'agree' or I'm the enemy, that I must contribute or I'm the enemy, that I must join or I'm the enemy...cuz if those are the conditions for peace, then, yeah, I'm your enemy.

I don't wanna be, don't like being, your enemy, but -- nope -- I will not 'see' problems where none exist, or make small problems into large ones, or pretend humans can be refined, or accept indoctrination, or act as though your 'brave new world, is a good thing, just to 'play nice' or 'be accepted' or 'avoid trouble' or 'be on the right side of history' or whatever crapsack reason a body may have for throwing common sense out the window.

You want a utopia that, in my view, ain't coming, and, if it did, wouldn't be damn sight better than what we got now.

Me, I got my own worries.

So: go about your business, leave me to mine, stop tellin' me what to do, and thicken your skin.

'nuff said.

Belinda
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Re: Homosexuality.

Post by Belinda » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:50 pm

Henry Quirk wrote:
"acceptance for my own community"

Hey, I recognize you're human, an individual, a self-directing agent, and that's all I'm gonna recognize cuz anything else is manure.
Henry writes of the individual. I agree. In what way are people of x,y, or z sexual orientation a "community"?

xman
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:30 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Homosexuality.

Post by xman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:38 pm

davidm wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:47 am
Brilliant post, xman. Very astute invocations of Kant, Heidegger and Descartes as well -- don't think this is a philosophy forum, though. I trust you've read around a bit. Almost everyone here wouldn't know philosophy from a donut. In addition to the gay bashers we've got the standard-issue racists, misogynists, transphobes, Islamaphobes and other such odious specimens. Of course these clowns are nowhere near a majority here, but they are the ones that do the most forum spamming -- with not a peep of protest from the powers that be.

And then too there are the evolution and relativity deniers, and the Christers who think Jesus is going to throw you into a lake of fire forever because you had the temerity to have sex with a member of your own gender, or just because you didn't believe in Jesus! All in all a bunch of bats that flew out of the cellar when President Cheeto Benito flung open the trap door.
Thank you, DavidM, for your kind words. But God do they depress me because I have the ominous feeling that you are quite correct. I would like to hear from you about why you think the ill-informed, the bigoted, those lacking in the ability or desire to think critically, are here at all, and the best way to deal with it. On the philosophy sites on Reddit I got the feeling that most of the posters think "philosophy" means ruminations about their attitude towards life, without any recourse to formal philosophy at all--and here I am thinking about importance of being acquainted with formal philosophical language. Using it gives one an invigorating ability to handle complex ideas of reason, and at the same serving to hold our noses to the grindstone and making us careful to stay on track, and to try to avoid the obvious mistakes of reasoning--like arguments against the person and simple, thoughtless apodictic assertions not backed up by even a hint of grounding. Surely the kind of people you rather cleverly denounce must realise they are out of their element--how did they discover this site in the first place? I only learned of it when I subscribed to the magazine. I was hoping for so much. Your posting reminded me of my favourite quote by Frederick the Great, which was made about Kant's beloved university at Koningsberg but could also, perhaps, be applied to this site: "better suited to the training of bears than to becoming a theatre of the sciences."

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vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6031
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: open letter to all who share xman's view

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:19 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:45 pm
"acceptance for my own community"

Hey, I recognize you're human, an individual, a self-directing agent, and that's all I'm gonna recognize cuz anything else is manure.

Life ain't perfect for you, mebbe a little (or a lot) worse than it is for other folks.

Well, how is this fact shiny and new?

Far as I can tell, every last soul got troubles. Some big, some small; some real, some imagined; some self-inflicted, some other-inflicted.

It is what it is.

Do what you think you need to do to make the world a 'better place'...chase that rainbow.

But don't think your fervor obiligates one other to lift a single friggin' finger in service to what you believe is right (cuz -- brace yourself -- you might be wrong).

Me, as long as you ain't takin' food off my table or money out my pocket, I don't give a flip what you do.

Understand this: I'm all for 'mind your own goddamned business, keep your friggin' hands to yourself...or else'. I try real hard to live by this...absolutely it's what I expect from folks around me.

What I got no time at all for is bein' told my indifference isn't enough...that, instead, I must 'agree' or I'm the enemy, that I must contribute or I'm the enemy, that I must join or I'm the enemy...cuz if those are the conditions for peace, then, yeah, I'm your enemy.

I don't wanna be, don't like being, your enemy, but -- nope -- I will not 'see' problems where none exist, or make small problems into large ones, or pretend humans can be refined, or accept indoctrination, or act as though your 'brave new world, is a good thing, just to 'play nice' or 'be accepted' or 'avoid trouble' or 'be on the right side of history' or whatever crapsack reason a body may have for throwing common sense out the window.

You want a utopia that, in my view, ain't coming, and, if it did, wouldn't be damn sight better than what we got now.

Me, I got my own worries.

So: go about your business, leave me to mine, stop tellin' me what to do, and thicken your skin.

'nuff said.
Sometimes I just have to take my hat off to you Henry :)

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vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6031
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Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Homosexuality.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:25 pm

xman wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:38 pm
davidm wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:47 am
Brilliant post, xman. Very astute invocations of Kant, Heidegger and Descartes as well -- don't think this is a philosophy forum, though. I trust you've read around a bit. Almost everyone here wouldn't know philosophy from a donut. In addition to the gay bashers we've got the standard-issue racists, misogynists, transphobes, Islamaphobes and other such odious specimens. Of course these clowns are nowhere near a majority here, but they are the ones that do the most forum spamming -- with not a peep of protest from the powers that be.

And then too there are the evolution and relativity deniers, and the Christers who think Jesus is going to throw you into a lake of fire forever because you had the temerity to have sex with a member of your own gender, or just because you didn't believe in Jesus! All in all a bunch of bats that flew out of the cellar when President Cheeto Benito flung open the trap door.
Thank you, DavidM, for your kind words. But God do they depress me because I have the ominous feeling that you are quite correct. I would like to hear from you about why you think the ill-informed, the bigoted, those lacking in the ability or desire to think critically, are here at all, and the best way to deal with it. On the philosophy sites on Reddit I got the feeling that most of the posters think "philosophy" means ruminations about their attitude towards life, without any recourse to formal philosophy at all--and here I am thinking about importance of being acquainted with formal philosophical language. Using it gives one an invigorating ability to handle complex ideas of reason, and at the same serving to hold our noses to the grindstone and making us careful to stay on track, and to try to avoid the obvious mistakes of reasoning--like arguments against the person and simple, thoughtless apodictic assertions not backed up by even a hint of grounding. Surely the kind of people you rather cleverly denounce must realise they are out of their element--how did they discover this site in the first place? I only learned of it when I subscribed to the magazine. I was hoping for so much. Your posting reminded me of my favourite quote by Frederick the Great, which was made about Kant's beloved university at Koningsberg but could also, perhaps, be applied to this site: "better suited to the training of bears than to becoming a theatre of the sciences."
Could you post a link to this 'homophobic hate-speech' on here that you are referring to? The problem with being terribly PC, entitled, and precious is that you run the risk of turning people off completely. No one has to like anyone. We don't yet have thought policing. If you want to be thought of as 'just people' (which every person is) then why talk about 'your community'? which presumably is based on nothing more than sexual preference. If that's all you have in common then it's a pretty flimsy sort of a 'community'. I have NEVER asked another person what their sexual preference is. I really don't give a rat's arse (unless it's something like bestiality or paedophilia, and no one is going to be admitting that anyway). You seem to have contempt for so-called 'heterosexuals'.

xman
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:30 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Homosexuality.

Post by xman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 pm

"Could you post a link to this 'homophobic hate-speech' on here that you are referring to?"
No. To do so would just invite more trollery, a skill at which you seem unusually adept. If you don't see it for yourself, I must conclude that you are incapable of recognising it when you see it, so why bother? Also, to do so would promote debate here on whether or not this or that phraseology is LGBT-phobic. The trolls would have a wonderful time, but it would be rather tedious for the rest of us. Perhaps the trolls here--look closely in the mirror, now--are the bears that Frederick the Great was alluding to. I don't poke bears with sharp sticks. It doesn't really work, and it would be cruel to dumb animals. This is the last and only time I will wallow with you in the mire of your discontent. I urge you to abandon it too.

davidm
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Homosexuality.

Post by davidm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55 pm

xman wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:38 pm
davidm wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:47 am
Brilliant post, xman. Very astute invocations of Kant, Heidegger and Descartes as well -- don't think this is a philosophy forum, though. I trust you've read around a bit. Almost everyone here wouldn't know philosophy from a donut. In addition to the gay bashers we've got the standard-issue racists, misogynists, transphobes, Islamaphobes and other such odious specimens. Of course these clowns are nowhere near a majority here, but they are the ones that do the most forum spamming -- with not a peep of protest from the powers that be.

And then too there are the evolution and relativity deniers, and the Christers who think Jesus is going to throw you into a lake of fire forever because you had the temerity to have sex with a member of your own gender, or just because you didn't believe in Jesus! All in all a bunch of bats that flew out of the cellar when President Cheeto Benito flung open the trap door.
Thank you, DavidM, for your kind words. But God do they depress me because I have the ominous feeling that you are quite correct. I would like to hear from you about why you think the ill-informed, the bigoted, those lacking in the ability or desire to think critically, are here at all, and the best way to deal with it. On the philosophy sites on Reddit I got the feeling that most of the posters think "philosophy" means ruminations about their attitude towards life, without any recourse to formal philosophy at all--and here I am thinking about importance of being acquainted with formal philosophical language. Using it gives one an invigorating ability to handle complex ideas of reason, and at the same serving to hold our noses to the grindstone and making us careful to stay on track, and to try to avoid the obvious mistakes of reasoning--like arguments against the person and simple, thoughtless apodictic assertions not backed up by even a hint of grounding. Surely the kind of people you rather cleverly denounce must realise they are out of their element--how did they discover this site in the first place? I only learned of it when I subscribed to the magazine. I was hoping for so much. Your posting reminded me of my favourite quote by Frederick the Great, which was made about Kant's beloved university at Koningsberg but could also, perhaps, be applied to this site: "better suited to the training of bears than to becoming a theatre of the sciences."
Five posts on this site and you've already given me hope for this place. No doubt a false hope, alas.

davidm
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Homosexuality.

Post by davidm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:56 pm

xman wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 pm
"Could you post a link to this 'homophobic hate-speech' on here that you are referring to?"
No. To do so would just invite more trollery, a skill at which you seem unusually adept.
Here's a brilliant contribution on another thread, from the person to whom you just replied:
And the word is 'lose' you brain-washed illiterate yank murder-justifier. The self-proclaimed 'christian' who delights in sadistic murder. ('Killing is terrible, but when you gotta do it (when your cuntry needs someone else's resources) then by golly gee whizz, it's a hell of a lot of fun'). Shame a sniper didn't hit you in your big, soppy 'pacifier' yank mouth.
Nice, eh? Really makes intelligent people want to post here!

davidm
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Homosexuality.

Post by davidm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:10 pm

I wish xman had been a member of The Galilean Library, when it was still active and had some reasonable traffic. Inexplicably, it's still online. I used to be a mod there. Right now, I believe the only post of the entire year 2017 is ... by me. :?

It was an attempt to build a serious philosophy board in which the usual trolls were nuked without mercy. Result: no one wanted to post there.

Tells you a lot of sad stuff about the Internet, and about people.

If xman would like help to revive the place, I'm game. Hope springs eternal!

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