Am I a man or a woman?

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Harbal
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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by Harbal » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:24 am

ForCruxSake wrote: at my first meeting of the day.
Would you pass my sympathy on to whoever it is you are meeting?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:42 am

ForCruxSake wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote: You see you are again distorting what I say: I said Japan should be allowed their self determination. It's their country. If they had an open door policy, then began mistreating those they have invited in, and blaming then for all their ills. I would think that wrong. That's not happened in Japan. It's what happens here, fomented by the BNP and people like you.

Japan's choice is not forced on me. I think the Americans were wrong to force them out of isolation, when all they wanted was to be left alone. It is their choice to make, and I will not judge them. I don't judge others based on their culture, no more than on the colour of their skin. I don't understand your problem with that.

I do however judge bullies, who insist on hitting people over the head with their bombs, their sticks, their inability to accept others views or cultures. I don't mind differences of opinion but when those are expressed with the sort of hysterical, venom-spitting hatred, displayed by the likes of the BNP and you, then the opinion feels corrupt. If that makes me PC then I'm happily PC, and if that patronises you, I'm happy to patronise you. But I'm not a hypocrite, nor a racist, and I don't think I've shown myself to be racist here, which means you are just being an irrational, venom-spitting hater, as usual.

It is you who consistently seems to display judgemental, and rascist, rhetoric. I'd think I was isolated in my opinion but for the fact somebody else has pointed out to you that they thought you come across as a racist Daily Mail reader.
Wrong. The BNP are morons, and no one is more against bombing people than I am. I just wondered if you considered Japan to be racist. We wouldn't want double standards now would we? Where have I said that immigrants should be treated badly?
And Jesus, don't you ever sleep??
Did I say the Japanese were racist??? I said they had a right to their culture. It's you who considers them racist. It's all a game
to you. You don't care about anyone, you just want to apoear an intellectual warrior. However I would have replied, my answer would have been something for you to try to beat me to death.

Where did I even say that you had said immigrants should be treated badly??? Just by suggesting I said it, does not mean I said it. I said you are a venom spitting bully, who distorts the words and ideas of others to suit your own agenda. You come across as racist in your defence of racist ideals in order to win an argument, I really don't think you care about anyone, either way. You just care about coming across as some one who is 'clever', which you think can only be borne about by you 'winning' or 'losing' an argument.

It's funny how you bandy about the term 'double standards' and 'hypocrite', when you constantly show the same behavior yourself. I'm afraid I've only time to bring up one example: deriding me for using slightly larger than normal text, then several times using huge text to shout your point out as if your reasoning would be supported by it.

All I have done is to defend the rights to remain, of immigrants legitimately here with the cultural mix they bring, and say that the Japanese have a right to self-determination, whilst you have made accusations of crime proliferation as a result of multiculturalism and that other cultures drive out supposedly British indigenous culture, without understanding that those 'indigenous cultures' themselves only exist as part of an earlier immigrant mix. You blather on in retort but everything you have said, in order to appear like a stalwart intellect, is infected with the kind of poisonous racist rhetoric, employed by the BNP, and their ilk. Have the courage of your 'smart mouth' to own what you have said, and hold your hand up to it, instead of trying to throw the insult back, like a six year old.

Good time to end as we've moved the discussion from actual discourse, on an interesting contentious subject, to personal attack again. It's a waste of my time and reason. Hatred is a currency I try not to trade in.
I didn't say you said they are racist. I never said they are either, but so what if they are? It's their country isn't it? When my father went to Japan in the early 1970s as a journalist he was taken aback when Japanese wouldn't get into lifts with him. He certainly didn't get all precious about it. I think he thought it was quite funny. I asked if you think they are racist for wanting to protect their culture (they are especially adamant about keeping muslims out). Clearly you do not. Yet you dismissively effectively say that the English should suck it up and accept that their own cultural identity is fast disappearing, citing some minute minorites from centuries ago that were readily absorbed into the general population. You can hardly compare that with turning the host population into a minority group. Let me spell it out for you. You call people 'racist' for valuing their culture, but that 'racism' only seems to apply to certain cultures. You think it's fine for the Japanese to do this. I was simply wondering why. Is that too difficult a question for you?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:25 am

Harbal wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote: at my first meeting of the day.
Would you pass my sympathy on to whoever it is you are meeting?
I can understand people not being able to decipher don'taskme's writing, but I would have thought any halfwit could understand my simple questions. Apparently half-wits can, but quarter-wits cannot.

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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:52 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:...you dismissively effectively say that the English should suck it up and accept that their own cultural identity is fast disappearing...
What exactly do you mean by English cultural identity? Harbal, you're a Yorkshireman; what do you reckon?

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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:56 pm

uwot wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:...you dismissively effectively say that the English should suck it up and accept that their own cultural identity is fast disappearing...
What exactly do you mean by English cultural identity? Harbal, you're a Yorkshireman; what do you reckon?
What do you think it means? Of course. You win. England has no identity at all, and nor has any other country. Apparently the PC word is 'Brit', and that can be anyone. You had better tell all those people who talk about their 'culture' though. They obviously don't realise it doesn't exist. Oops. Did I just say country? I hope you never mention that word, because there is no such thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQE3GfkrOo

uwot
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Whut?

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:02 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
uwot wrote:What exactly do you mean by English cultural identity? Harbal, you're a Yorkshireman; what do you reckon?
What do you think it means?
That wasn't the question.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Of course. You win.
That isn't the issue.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:England has no identity at all, and nor has any other country.
Then what is your point?
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Apparently the PC word is 'Brit', and that can be anyone.
What do you base that on?
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:You had better tell all those people who talk about their 'culture' though.
I'll stick to the contributors to this forum.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:They obviously don't realise it doesn't exist. Oops. Did I just say country?
Yup.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I hope you never mention that word, because there is no such thing.
Who do you think is making that claim?

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Harbal
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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by Harbal » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:07 pm

uwot wrote:What exactly do you mean by English cultural identity? Harbal, you're a Yorkshireman; what do you reckon?
I suppose there is a broad English cultural identity that most of us relate to: fish and chips, the Royal Family etc etc.... I would say that has probably not been so much effected. What could be called localised cultural identity -at least in my locality- has very definitely been effected. You can drive through areas where most of the shops have foreign writing above them and the people on the streets look and behave differently to how the local people used to look and behave. To be uncomfortable with that is not unnatural, people need to be surrounded by what they are familiar with, otherwise they feel out of place and even alienated. I don't think this is an answer to exactly what you asked but I'm not really sure what I can say.

uwot
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Pass the Dutchie.

Post by uwot » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:53 pm

Harbal wrote: I don't think this is an answer to exactly what you asked but I'm not really sure what I can say.
I dunno, Harbal. Whatever the rights or wrongs about immigration for economic reasons, no reasonable person would claim that any strategy the powers that be had for integration, has been entirely successful. It's something that needs to be talked about seriously, but as my dad was from Holland, I'm not sure how much say I get; particularly as my mum was from Lancashire.

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Harbal
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Re: Pass the Dutchie.

Post by Harbal » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:19 pm

uwot wrote: no reasonable person would claim that any strategy the powers that be had for integration, has been entirely successful.
Why would people integrate? Many immigrant communities cover so large an area as to be able to function -in many respects- independently. No need to adapt to the host culture when you can simply transplant the one you already have. Some don't even bother to learn the language.
my dad was from Holland
Mine was from Eastern Europe. He never entirely fitted in here but he certainly didn't expect society or even his immediate neighbours to adapt in order to better suit him.
my mum was from Lancashire.
That's not your fault, uwot, I guess I was just lucky that mine was from Yorkshire. :wink:

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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by ForCruxSake » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:16 pm

Harbal wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote: at my first meeting of the day.
Would you pass my sympathy on to whoever it is you are meeting?
They don't know you, why bore them with what you think?

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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by Harbal » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:30 pm

ForCruxSake wrote: They don't know you, why bore them with what you think?
Because it would make a change from being bored by someone they do know.

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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by ForCruxSake » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I just wondered if you considered Japan to be racist.
Did I say the Japanese were racist??? I said they had a right to their culture. It's you who considers them racist. It's all a game to you. You don't care about anyone, you just want to appear an intellectual warrior. However I would have replied, my answer would have been something for you to try to beat me to death.
It's their country isn't it? When my father went to Japan in the early 1970s as a journalist he was taken aback when Japanese wouldn't get into lifts with him. He certainly didn't get all precious about it. I think he thought it was quite funny. I asked if you think they are racist for wanting to protect their culture (they are especially adamant about keeping muslims out).
But you didn't ask. You framed a question hoping to trap me into some kind of answer that might suggest they were racist. And here you are trying, rather poorly, might I add, to do the same thing.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Clearly you do not.
How do you even know? Your clearly did not ask the question, preferring to ask what I thought of the Japanese not allowing immigrants, and I stated they had a right to self-determination. You've somehow deluded yourself into thinking my answer suggests more than it states.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Yet you dismissively effectively say that the English should suck it up and accept that their own cultural identity is fast disappearing, citing some minute minorites from centuries ago that were readily absorbed into the general population. You can hardly compare that with turning the host population into a minority group.

Who on earth is this 'pure' host population? It's not the English, because a lot of the second generation Somalians , and second, third and fourth generation Pakistanis around my way, are English. We're a mix of different cultures... Particularly in the cities. The 'purest' form of culture in England is displayed by the Cornish, or so they claim, out on the limb of England, and even they are 'riddled with' other Brits.

This is my country, as much as anyone else allowed citizenship here, and we have freedom of movement, freedom to worship and freedom to do just about anything as long as no laws are broken. Suits me fine.

You are inventing the idea of an indigenous population becoming a minority group. I live here and I see plenty of white people whose families go back generations, I don't really care about flag waving nationalism or who feels they have the greatest right to live here, and how, because generations ago their French forefathers beat the English at the Battle of Hastings. I care about now and the country our children are growing up in. I don't want them to carry the filth of your sort of divisive hatred. Pushing people to fight, Backing them into corners so you feel that you have the right to hit them over the head.

I seek to live in peace, as pleasantly as possible with those around me, and only kick out at bullies, which you and Harbal show yourself to be, time and time again, in some sort of pathetic game of wits aimed at demeaning those who would openly discuss subjects with you.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Let me spell it out for you. You call people 'racist' for valuing their culture, but that 'racism' only seems to apply to certain cultures. You think it's fine for the Japanese to do this. I was simply wondering why. Is that too difficult a question for you?
Now let me spell it it out for you: I call people racist HERE for refusing to accept other cultures HERE with grace. Cultures change over time, nothing remains pure anyway. To lash out with hatred at people of different cultures, who you've invited, or allowed in HERE, to your space, who live without breaking the law, a bit differently, is an affront to humanity. Valuing your culture is not the problem. Despising others for theirs, and how it pollutes or overtaken yours, is a value loaded judgment that leads to the kind of hatred I call 'racism'. That's the problem. Is that clear enough or are you determined to twist the sense of that, too?

I say what I say. You take what want from it but do not try repackage your understanding of what I am saying, to suggest that that is what I am actually saying. You do that an awful lot and much time is wasted, as people have to repeat over and over again the statements they make, that you have bent to fit your own agenda.

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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by ForCruxSake » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Harbal wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote: They don't know you, why bore them with what you think?
Because it would make a change from being bored by someone they do know.
In which case, they pay me well to bore them, and keep renegotiating my contract to stay, without breaking a yawn.

But then you don't know them anymore than they know you. I could share your posts with them, and then you can feel secure in having established some kind of connection on which your snide comments might be appreciated, if they are even at all interested in what you have to say....? But why waste their time any more than I let you waste mine? I should really go back to ignoring you. Feeding trolls is not my area of expertise.

I'll just let the big boys that DO know you, deal with you. Uwot looks so much better at arse smacking than me. He always does it with such grace, you hardly know he's smacking, for I which I thank him. :lol:

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Harbal
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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by Harbal » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:48 pm

ForCruxSake wrote: and only kick out at bullies, which you and Harbal show yourself to be, time and time again,
It sounds like you've had the same indoctrination they give to social workers. Then, if someone dissents, the standard procedure is to stick a stigmatising label on them to shut them up. That's bullying.
I call people racist HERE for refusing to accept other cultures HERE with grace
That's not exactly racism, is it?

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Re: Am I a man or a woman?

Post by Harbal » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:53 pm

ForCruxSake wrote: In which case, they pay me well to bore them, and keep renegotiating my contract to stay, without breaking a yawn.
High flyers don't usually spend hours on end on internet forums, they typically have more important and interesting things to do.

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