Philosophy Now Forum

I read an item in today's paper about how "Eight Iranian girls were turned away from a men's soccer match after failing to trick officials when they disguised themselves as boys in an attempt to attend the match in Tehran. Iran argues that the ban on women attending soccer matches is necessary to protect them from lewd language that might emanate from the terraces."

My question is : What can women/girls in Iran do to alleviate the situation? Living in such a patriarchal society where physical punishment is carried out for the most trivial of transgressions, what can women do?

Suppose you had a female friend living in Iran, what advice would you offer her?

They should organise a protest outside the football ground chanting the Iranian equivalent of "let us in you fucking bastards". If that doesn't work, they could try going to watch cricket, instead.

Harbal wrote:They should organise a protest outside the football ground chanting the Iranian equivalent of "let us in you fucking bastards". If that doesn't work, they could try going to watch cricket, instead.

Well that is the best answer so far!

I would have thought that some forum feminists might have proffered an opinion or a suggestion for their Iranian sisters.

Perhaps a little thought experiment might get the creative juices flowing: Suppose it was the other way around.... and that it was men who had to wear a head scarf in public and were not allowed to take out a bank loan without the approval of a matriarchal relative and were not allowed to go to watch women's soccer? And that men were subservient to women under law?

What would men do? What could they do?

A_Seagull wrote:

Harbal wrote:They should organise a protest outside the football ground chanting the Iranian equivalent of "let us in you fucking bastards". If that doesn't work, they could try going to watch cricket, instead.

Well that is the best answer so far!

I would have thought that some forum feminists might have proffered an opinion or a suggestion for their Iranian sisters.

Perhaps a little thought experiment might get the creative juices flowing: Suppose it was the other way around.... and that it was men who had to wear a head scarf in public and were not allowed to take out a bank loan without the approval of a matriarchal relative and were not allowed to go to watch women's soccer? And that men were subservient to women under law?

What would men do? What could they do?

Emigrate to the U.S.A. - oh yeah, maybe Germany

A_Seagull wrote:I read an item in today's paper about how "Eight Iranian girls were turned away from a men's soccer match after failing to trick officials when they disguised themselves as boys in an attempt to attend the match in Tehran. Iran argues that the ban on women attending soccer matches is necessary to protect them from lewd language that might emanate from the terraces."

My question is : What can women/girls in Iran do to alleviate the situation? Living in such a patriarchal society where physical punishment is carried out for the most trivial of transgressions, what can women do?

Suppose you had a female friend living in Iran, what advice would you offer her?

"[..]Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you." This is the grounds of gender discrimination.

Wyman wrote:

A_Seagull wrote:

Harbal wrote:They should organise a protest outside the football ground chanting the Iranian equivalent of "let us in you fucking bastards". If that doesn't work, they could try going to watch cricket, instead.

Well that is the best answer so far!

I would have thought that some forum feminists might have proffered an opinion or a suggestion for their Iranian sisters.

Perhaps a little thought experiment might get the creative juices flowing: Suppose it was the other way around.... and that it was men who had to wear a head scarf in public and were not allowed to take out a bank loan without the approval of a matriarchal relative and were not allowed to go to watch women's soccer? And that men were subservient to women under law?

What would men do? What could they do?

Emigrate to the U.S.A. - oh yeah, maybe Germany

Yeah voting with your feet is a good option.. so long as you have places to go. I hardly think USA would take any Iranian immigrants at this time.. not sure about Germany.

A_Seagull wrote:

Wyman wrote:

A_Seagull wrote:
Well that is the best answer so far!

I would have thought that some forum feminists might have proffered an opinion or a suggestion for their Iranian sisters.

Perhaps a little thought experiment might get the creative juices flowing: Suppose it was the other way around.... and that it was men who had to wear a head scarf in public and were not allowed to take out a bank loan without the approval of a matriarchal relative and were not allowed to go to watch women's soccer? And that men were subservient to women under law?

What would men do? What could they do?

Emigrate to the U.S.A. - oh yeah, maybe Germany

Yeah voting with your feet is a good option.. so long as you have places to go. I hardly think USA would take any Iranian immigrants at this time.. not sure about Germany.

Hmm, but they take their horrible customs with them. Almost makes you think the women approve of those customs, and don't appreciate others telling they are miserable.

Harbal wrote:They should organise a protest outside the football ground chanting the Iranian equivalent of "let us in you fucking bastards". If that doesn't work, they could try going to watch cricket, instead.

Men would have to be rather emasculated to let women protest without putting them in their place. I wonder if middle-eastern men would let themselves be pussified like Western men.

Remember, women cannot enforce their own will without other men (police/military). They are mentally and physically too weak to do so.

If it comes to a conflict between a group composed of average men and average women, unless a third party masculine entity (police/military) intervenes, women will end up in their natural position in relation to men - submitted.

Also, all other factors equal (ceteris paribus), a matriarchal (feminist, female dominated) system is inferior to a patriarchal system and the latter will conquer the former.

3Sum wrote:Also, all other factors equal (ceteris paribus), a matriarchal (feminist, female dominated) system is inferior to a patriarchal system and the latter will conquer the former.

Dreams.

Patriarchal societies have already been profoundly out-competed by more egalitarian ones. The new alphas are not physically strong, they are wealthy. So Gina Rinehard is thousands of times more powerful than the so-called "strong" men of patriarchal societies that you think can use their muscles against technology.

Greta wrote:

3Sum wrote:Also, all other factors equal (ceteris paribus), a matriarchal (feminist, female dominated) system is inferior to a patriarchal system and the latter will conquer the former.

Dreams.

Patriarchal societies have already been profoundly out-competed by more egalitarian ones. The new alphas are not physically strong, they are wealthy. So Gina Rinehard is thousands of times more powerful than the so-called "strong" men of patriarchal societies that you think can use their muscles against technology.

Who ever said anything about going with muscles against technology? Out-competed, how?

Gina Rinehard is just as powerful as the system which protects her, and the system which protects her is just as powerful as its protectors, aka enforcers, mercenaries, also going by the name of police/military. The more you emasculate men by forcing them to accept shitty female behavior the less capable and/or less willing the men become to defend the system, aka the system's protectors become weak and/or unwilling to defend a system that disadvantages them. Another system, which doesn't emasculate its male population, will have males who are more masculine and thus more willing and able to protect the system and also more able to invade and conquer other systems.

There is undoubtedly a lot of nature/reality inversion and degeneracy in the West, I do not deny that - my point is that it is not a sustainable state.

I'm not saying a patriarchy is the ONLY condition to a high civilization that is sustainable, but it is one of them.

3Sum wrote:Who ever said anything about going with muscles against technology? Out-competed, how?

Out competed economically, technologically, organisationally and intellectually - in just about every way a society can out compete another. All of the dominant societies are those that allow women to actualise.

3Sum wrote: J
Men would have to be rather emasculated to let women protest without putting them in their place. I wonder if middle-eastern men would let themselves be pussified like Western men.

Remember, women cannot enforce their own will without other men (police/military). They are mentally and physically too weak to do so.

If it comes to a conflict between a group composed of average men and average women, unless a third party masculine entity (police/military) intervenes, women will end up in their natural position in relation to men - submitted.

Also, all other factors equal (ceteris paribus), a matriarchal (feminist, female dominated) system is inferior to a patriarchal system and the latter will conquer the former.

I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who lives in a civilised country.

Re: the thread. I think that what the women there are doing is about as much as they can do - to keep pushing at those barriers and hope for the best. As a westerner who doesn't know Iranian customs or what it is to live under such systemic oppression, I don't feel qualified to give advice to Iranian women.

I suppose one of the better things a westerner can do to help is to give to charities that focus on girls' education. I sometimes give to One Girl in Africa but have done nothing to help the women of the middle east that I know of.

3Sum wrote:

Harbal wrote:They should organise a protest outside the football ground chanting the Iranian equivalent of "let us in you fucking bastards". If that doesn't work, they could try going to watch cricket, instead.

Men would have to be rather emasculated to let women protest without putting them in their place. I wonder if middle-eastern men would let themselves be pussified like Western men.

Remember, women cannot enforce their own will without other men (police/military). They are mentally and physically too weak to do so.

If it comes to a conflict between a group composed of average men and average women, unless a third party masculine entity (police/military) intervenes, women will end up in their natural position in relation to men - submitted.

Also, all other factors equal (ceteris paribus), a matriarchal (feminist, female dominated) system is inferior to a patriarchal system and the latter will conquer the former.

That is indeed an interesting perspective on the situation. However the source data for your conclusions must differ from mine. Because from the data that I have encountered it is only men with an unusually low intelligence who seek to dominate women through their undoubted superior physical size and strength. And it is only men with a significant deficiency in the trouser department who think that they have achieved something special by their attempts to humiliate women.

A_Seagull wrote:I read an item in today's paper about how "Eight Iranian girls were turned away from a men's soccer match after failing to trick officials when they disguised themselves as boys in an attempt to attend the match in Tehran. Iran argues that the ban on women attending soccer matches is necessary to protect them from lewd language that might emanate from the terraces."

My question is : What can women/girls in Iran do to alleviate the situation? Living in such a patriarchal society where physical punishment is carried out for the most trivial of transgressions, what can women do?

Suppose you had a female friend living in Iran, what advice would you offer her?

I'd apologise for the role that the CIA and MI5 had in the coup that deposed a forward thinking democratically elected government in 1952, that has led to Iran becoming a tyrant state, under the Shah who set up the secret police.
Then I'd apologise for tour governments refusing to help the progressive majority in 1979 because they were too "left wing", leading to the current Theocracy, who took over from the Shah.
I'd advise her to become a left -wing terrorists and fight western antidemocratic oppression around the world.