Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:10 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I can feel old school, intellectual feminist Germaine Greer's exasperation here. The interviewer is a complete idiot. It won't be long before there are no more public intellectuals because they are either dead and not replaced, or intimidated into silence and compliance by Political Correctness. No wonder the PC movement is so keen to get into the education systems of the world. Grab children's minds before they are capable of thinking critically. Religion works on exactly the same principle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8Q6D4a6TM

"Don't behave like women" - Like SHE does? LOL

In one sentence she has destroyed everything she ever stood for, as if all women can be so easily characterised by their behaviour.
Yes, she does actually. You are offended by her wrinkles?
No of course not, I'm offended by how establishment she has become, and how she is now supporting the sort of gender stereotyping and biological determinism that she was at such pains to deny in the 1960s.

The breaking down of strict gender divisions is the natural consequence of the women's movement of the 60s and it's a shame to see her talk the talk of chauvinism.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:42 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:

"Don't behave like women" - Like SHE does? LOL

In one sentence she has destroyed everything she ever stood for, as if all women can be so easily characterised by their behaviour.
Yes, she does actually. You are offended by her wrinkles?
No of course not, I'm offended by how establishment she has become, and how she is now supporting the sort of gender stereotyping and biological determinism that she was at such pains to deny in the 1960s.

The breaking down of strict gender divisions is the natural consequence of the women's movement of the 60s and it's a shame to see her talk the talk of chauvinism.
FFS. There's a big difference between wanting equal rights, and saying there is no difference between the genders. Only a fuckwit says that. I couldn't care less about Germaine Greer. A person might say something I agree with, and other things I don't agree with. I happen to agree with her on this. Unlike you I'm not locked into any particular political dogma. When people are locked into a dogma, they don't care about whether or not something is true, only about whether it is 'correct' and fits with their political persuasion.
And what the heck does 'becoming establishment' mean? Did you get that from your 'gender studies' courses? Society has changed a hell of a lot since the early seventies. No one had even heard of 'trans' fats, let alone trans people.

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Greta
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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Greta » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:28 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:FFS. There's a big difference between wanting equal rights, and saying there is no difference between the genders. Only a fuckwit says that.
And only a bigger fuckwit claims makes reckless straw person claims as you just did. Why are you ranting on with such bullshit? Nobody but the enemies you invent in your mind believes there's no difference between genders.

By the same token, male and female dogs are obviously not the same either but most of us still treat them simply as dogs and, in time, as individual dogs. Do you treat male and female dogs differently based on expected stereotypes or do you observe the individual animal and decide on how to treat it based on its behaviour?

Q. Why should it be any different in dealing with humans? A: Because with humans there is the potential for fucking. There is no other reason. So if one is no longer playing in the meat market then one has the option of telling those police of gender and sexual norms to stick it where the sun don't shine. That is obviously what I am doing now.

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:38 pm

Greta wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:FFS. There's a big difference between wanting equal rights, and saying there is no difference between the genders. Only a fuckwit says that.
And only a bigger fuckwit claims makes reckless straw person claims as you just did. Why are you ranting on with such bullshit? Nobody but the enemies you invent in your mind believes there's no difference between genders.

By the same token, male and female dogs are obviously not the same either but most of us still treat them simply as dogs and, in time, as individual dogs. Do you treat male and female dogs differently based on expected stereotypes or do you observe the individual animal and decide on how to treat it based on its behaviour?

Q. Why should it be any different in dealing with humans? A: Because with humans there is the potential for fucking. There is no other reason. So if one is no longer playing in the meat market then one has the option of telling those police of gender and sexual norms to stick it where the sun don't shine. That is obviously what I am doing now.
Nobody says that? Hobbes just vilified Greer for suggesting there is such a thing as female behaviour, not to mention the fact that he's shot himself in the foot over the 'trans' thing. Are you suggesting I just came up with the idea on here? And you can accept that there are differences between the sexes without wanting to fuck them. That's what you call sexual desire, and it's a different topic. I seem to recall a post of yours that said you can tell Jews by their big noses, meanness with money, and lack of honesty. I've always wondered how the politically correct choose their pets of the month. Do they have meetings? Decide which cause is fashionable or not? Or does it just happen?

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:08 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Greta wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:FFS. There's a big difference between wanting equal rights, and saying there is no difference between the genders. Only a fuckwit says that.
And only a bigger fuckwit claims makes reckless straw person claims as you just did. Why are you ranting on with such bullshit? Nobody but the enemies you invent in your mind believes there's no difference between genders.

By the same token, male and female dogs are obviously not the same either but most of us still treat them simply as dogs and, in time, as individual dogs. Do you treat male and female dogs differently based on expected stereotypes or do you observe the individual animal and decide on how to treat it based on its behaviour?

Q. Why should it be any different in dealing with humans? A: Because with humans there is the potential for fucking. There is no other reason. So if one is no longer playing in the meat market then one has the option of telling those police of gender and sexual norms to stick it where the sun don't shine. That is obviously what I am doing now.
Nobody says that? Hobbes just vilified Greer for suggesting there is such a thing as female behaviour, not to mention the fact that he's shot himself in the foot over the 'trans' thing. Are you suggesting I just came up with the idea on here? And you can accept that there are differences between the sexes without wanting to fuck them. That's what you call sexual desire, and it's a different topic. I seem to recall a post of yours that said you can tell Jews by their big noses, meanness with money, and lack of honesty. I've always wondered how the politically correct choose their pets of the month. Do they have meetings? Decide which cause is fashionable or not? Or does it just happen?
Looks like you closed your mind off a long time ago - is that a woman thing?

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:25 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Greta wrote: And only a bigger fuckwit claims makes reckless straw person claims as you just did. Why are you ranting on with such bullshit? Nobody but the enemies you invent in your mind believes there's no difference between genders.

By the same token, male and female dogs are obviously not the same either but most of us still treat them simply as dogs and, in time, as individual dogs. Do you treat male and female dogs differently based on expected stereotypes or do you observe the individual animal and decide on how to treat it based on its behaviour?

Q. Why should it be any different in dealing with humans? A: Because with humans there is the potential for fucking. There is no other reason. So if one is no longer playing in the meat market then one has the option of telling those police of gender and sexual norms to stick it where the sun don't shine. That is obviously what I am doing now.
Nobody says that? Hobbes just vilified Greer for suggesting there is such a thing as female behaviour, not to mention the fact that he's shot himself in the foot over the 'trans' thing. Are you suggesting I just came up with the idea on here? And you can accept that there are differences between the sexes without wanting to fuck them. That's what you call sexual desire, and it's a different topic. I seem to recall a post of yours that said you can tell Jews by their big noses, meanness with money, and lack of honesty. I've always wondered how the politically correct choose their pets of the month. Do they have meetings? Decide which cause is fashionable or not? Or does it just happen?
Looks like you closed your mind off a long time ago - is that a woman thing?
To what? Well that's that then. Your brilliant counter-arguments have ended the discussion.

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Harbal » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:37 am

3Sum wrote:
I've also noticed this lack of balance myself, by just observing real life. It was always odd to me how my uncle has to do a backbreaking physical job 8 hours a day for a month (a minimum of 200 hours of work) to get the same pay a prostitute can get in less than 1 day of work, which is less than 8 hours.
If your uncle or other morons like him choose to hand over their hard earned money for a brief period of female attention then who's fault is that? Surely they must think what they are paying for is worth it or they wouldn't enter into the bargain, would they? How much would you charge to let yourself be molested by some sweaty bastard who thinks you are worthless?
this means that the price of what females have to offer skyrockets, while the price of what males have to offer is lowered, since the protection/provision of any individual male cannot match that of the daddy state.
Without the "daddy state", who will protect your interests when a bigger, stronger bonehead than you decides he likes the look of your woman, throws her over his shoulder and walks off with her?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:02 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Nobody says that? Hobbes just vilified Greer for suggesting there is such a thing as female behaviour, not to mention the fact that he's shot himself in the foot over the 'trans' thing. Are you suggesting I just came up with the idea on here? And you can accept that there are differences between the sexes without wanting to fuck them. That's what you call sexual desire, and it's a different topic. I seem to recall a post of yours that said you can tell Jews by their big noses, meanness with money, and lack of honesty. I've always wondered how the politically correct choose their pets of the month. Do they have meetings? Decide which cause is fashionable or not? Or does it just happen?
Looks like you closed your mind off a long time ago - is that a woman thing?
To what? Well that's that then. Your brilliant counter-arguments have ended the discussion.
Indeed. Hoisted by your own petard.

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Walker » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:58 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I can feel old school, intellectual feminist Germaine Greer's exasperation here. The interviewer is a complete idiot. It won't be long before there are no more public intellectuals because they are either dead and not replaced, or intimidated into silence and compliance by Political Correctness. No wonder the PC movement is so keen to get into the education systems of the world. Grab children's minds before they are capable of thinking critically. Religion works on exactly the same principle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8Q6D4a6TM
She offers an interesting psychological view of transsexual Jenner.

Change the language and thinking eventually changes.

According to Fowler’s Modern English Usage, Third Edition, the word “gender” has always had a secondary reference to a person’s sex. In the sixties, the secondary reference started shifting to primary.

Why? In the sixties, activists placed attention of their public voice and listeners upon the role of women in society. In the context of the times, innocuous “gender” sounded more rational and tidy than a bunch of people hollering about sex, with its caldron of associations.

Gender sounds more academic and rational than sex, and some of that is going to rub off, so to speak, on a subliminal, assumed legitimacy of the speaker.

So, there was a cause in the change of “sex” usage, word-wise and in many cases other-wise. Words and their associations contribute heavily to reinforcing paradigms new and old. Word associations can be habitual and newly foisted.

Interesting headline here:

Trinity’s transgender wrestler credits teammates for his state title
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local ... 21414.html

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Greta » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:23 pm

Walker wrote:Interesting headline here:

Trinity’s transgender wrestler credits teammates for his state title
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local ... 21414.html
Usually gender plays out as binary, but not always. I expect that one day society will come to terms with the bleeding obvious fact that sex and gender are continua. Not smooth, usual continua, more like black holes, where for a long time only two types were ever observed - supermassive or stellar sized. Just recently a black of hole of intermediate size was found. Sexuality too tends to usually be binary, but a minority are right in the middle.

Nature is not tidy. Human society and its members, being subsets of the natural systems on Earth, are thus also not tidy. Not everything in nature fits neatly into the categories we devise, but a common response is to take those anomalies and place them in one category or the other for convenience.

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:33 pm

I'm totally confused. So 'he' is wrestling women? Or is 'she' wrestling men? After male hormone treatment I suppose any woman would have a physical advantage over other women. I can't wait to see the genderless olympics.

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Greta » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:24 am

Much inferred straw with a dose of argumentum ad absurdum.

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:22 am

Greta wrote:Much inferred straw with a dose of argumentum ad absurdum.
What are you talking about now? Do you even know what a 'straw man' is? Are you saying testosterone doesn't increase muscle mass and strength? I couldn't see the point of the article. I could understand it being newsworthy if she had won against male wrestlers.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Greta
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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by Greta » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:53 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Greta wrote:Much inferred straw with a dose of argumentum ad absurdum.
What are you talking about now? Do you even know what a 'straw man' is? Are you saying testosterone doesn't increase muscle mass and strength? I couldn't see the point of the article. I could understand it being newsworthy is she had won against male wrestlers.
No, just that you keep ranting and it's not the point, which is that when we consider nature and humanity's extended nature, we classify according to commonsense but it's only an approximation of a more complex reality. The issue for those in between is that, unlike many continua, the gender spectrum is largely pretty polarised, even more so than sexuality, so they are a tiny minority.

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Re: Gender relations - another way of looking at them

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:56 pm

Greta wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Greta wrote:Much inferred straw with a dose of argumentum ad absurdum.
What are you talking about now? Do you even know what a 'straw man' is? Are you saying testosterone doesn't increase muscle mass and strength? I couldn't see the point of the article. I could understand it being newsworthy is she had won against male wrestlers.
No, just that you keep ranting and it's not the point, which is that when we consider nature and humanity's extended nature, we classify according to commonsense but it's only an approximation of a more complex reality. The issue for those in between is that, unlike many continua, the gender spectrum is largely pretty polarised, even more so than sexuality, so they are a tiny minority.
Pardon?

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