Why are women different mentally?

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raw_thought
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Why are women different mentally?

Post by raw_thought »

I have noticed that men play chess far more then women. There are far more men philosophers then women. Also more scientists etc. We also seem to be interested in such topics more then women.
Is it cultural or biological?
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

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Biology crafts the cultural and social differences between the sexes.


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Skip
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Skip »

raw_thought wrote:I have noticed that men play chess far more then women. There are far more men philosophers then women. Also more scientists etc.
And have you noticed how food and clean underwear and heirs magically materialize while you're busy doing these things?
Or delved into the question of who suggested the ideas that men took credit for?
Or looked at the record of admissions to universities?
It's hereditary.
Last edited by Skip on Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

raw_thought wrote:I have noticed that men play chess far more then women. There are far more men philosophers then women. Also more scientists etc. We also seem to be interested in such topics more then women.
Is it cultural or biological?
Why are some people more idiotic than others? Why is it that some men can't play chess, or are too stupid to understand science; the arts; literature.
The differences between men, are more than the differences between the sexes.
raw_thought
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by raw_thought »

Of course some men cannot play chess. What is your point?
Of course some women play chess (the Polgar sisters), what is your point?
Its as if I asked," why are women more likely to wear skirts then men, is it cultural or biological? ". You answer, well some men wear skirts (kilts and transvestites). A better answer would be that it is because there is a cultural pressure for men to not wear skirts.
raw_thought
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by raw_thought »

By the way, I did not say that women are too stupid to play chess. I asked why do they choose not to as much as men do. Obviously, you misunderstood the OP.
mickthinks
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by mickthinks »

Is it cultural or biological?

Some differences between men and women are genetic, more are socially conditioned, but most, in my opinion, are over-stated.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Obvious Leo »

It is demonstrably true that men have a more precise sense of spatial awareness than women and this is certainly hard-wired and not just a cultural thing. However all humans are way down near the bottom of the list on this skill compared with most other vertebrates so it's nothing much for blokes to crow about. However it has been suggested that this slightly better spatial awareness may account for why men are better at a particular class of tasks than women are and chess-playing was quoted as an example in a paper I read a year or two ago. There are sound evolutionary explanations for why such a disparity in spatial awareness exists and that this might be relevant to other specific skills is not improbable. However I don't think it would be wise to read too much into this because for every sweeping generalisation there will always be countless exceptions.

Here's an interesting thing I remember from another paper. Imagine a subject walking into a room full of people and mixing with the crowd. When questioned afterwards a male subject will be far more likely to accurately estimate the size of the room and also where all the doors and windows are than will a female. A female subject will be far more likely than a male to remember which people belonged with which other people and also what the various people were wearing. Once again this is purely a statistical effect but I can honestly say anecdotally in the case of my wife and I that this would be absolutely correct.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Obvious Leo wrote:It is demonstrably true that men have a more precise sense of spatial awareness than women and this is certainly hard-wired and not just a cultural thing. However all humans are way down near the bottom of the list on this skill compared with most other vertebrates so it's nothing much for blokes to crow about. However it has been suggested that this slightly better spatial awareness may account for why men are better at a particular class of tasks than women are and chess-playing was quoted as an example in a paper I read a year or two ago. There are sound evolutionary explanations for why such a disparity in spatial awareness exists and that this might be relevant to other specific skills is not improbable. However I don't think it would be wise to read too much into this because for every sweeping generalisation there will always be countless exceptions.

Here's an interesting thing I remember from another paper. Imagine a subject walking into a room full of people and mixing with the crowd. When questioned afterwards a male subject will be far more likely to accurately estimate the size of the room and also where all the doors and windows are than will a female. A female subject will be far more likely than a male to remember which people belonged with which other people and also what the various people were wearing. Once again this is purely a statistical effect but I can honestly say anecdotally in the case of my wife and I that this would be absolutely correct.
There is an amazing Youtube vid of a chimp with a screen upon which are shown a random list of numbers in squares occupying different positions. They are shown for a split second, and the chimp is then expected to repeat the pattern of numbers (a bit like a SIMON game). He can out perform any human by a very large margin.
I'll see if I can find it.
I agree with the sex differences you have described, but tend to reject them in every day life as this sort of thinking usually leads to prejudice. For sure there are hard-wired factors, but these are encouraged by cultural factors, so much that it would be a brave man (or stupid one) to assert proportionality.
My visual-spatial intelligence in IQ test exceeds my numeracy and literacy, so I tend to find watching women trying to use a key or turn a screwdriver somewhat frustrating. I also note that my facial recognition is far higher than my female partners over the years. So it all seems to fit nicely.
However, as a sculptor, I happen to know at least two women that I've met over the last 4 years whose skills as portrait artists far exceeds mine, and I would have to conclude that my spatial and facial appreciation has been surpassed by these women.
So here is why the argument tends to be BS.
The gross differences between members of the same sex are more extreme than between two randomly picked members of different genders.
SAT scores are interesting in this debate, and tend to point to how we get these prejudices. There are two seemingly contradictory facts. 1) Boys achieve higher scores than Girls; 2) Boys achieve lower scores than Girls.
Females tend to occupy a shorter bell curve, with few top fliers, and fewer low end achievers. Boys, whilst a few can score higher than all girls, they also pack out the low end of the graph. The male curve of achievement extends lower and higher, and forms a small hillock in the middle whose peak is slightly lower than the female top of the bell curve.
On average females score better overall, and their capabilities are more reliable.

Given this disparity there ought to be more men unemployed or criminalised by lack of achievement, but a woman will never win a Formula One championship.
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:, but a woman will never win a Formula One championship.
Or learn to park in a tight spot. In general I regard women as safer and more competent drivers than men, as do insurance companies, but they definitely aren't as good as men are at parking. Once again this a sweeping generalisation and there are plenty of exceptions but this study has been carried out all over the world many times. Although I jeopardise my hard-earned reputation for ideological purity by saying this I reckon that by and large women can't park for shit and when it comes to reversing a trailer the less said the better.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:, but a woman will never win a Formula One championship.
Or learn to park in a tight spot. In general I regard women as safer and more competent drivers than men, as do insurance companies, but they definitely aren't as good as men are at parking. Once again this a sweeping generalisation and there are plenty of exceptions but this study has been carried out all over the world many times. Although I jeopardise my hard-earned reputation for ideological purity by saying this I reckon that by and large women can't park for shit and when it comes to reversing a trailer the less said the better.
However, I would never trust ANY man in place of a woman I know to park my car.
Last edited by Hobbes' Choice on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Obvious Leo »

If you can find a sober one you should be right.
Skip
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Skip »

Those basic statistics on perception are, of course, correct. Men have more accurate spatial perception while women are better at close observation of detail. Chess strategy could actually benefit from both kinds of ability.
Given a level chessboard - that is, 100 3-year-olds of each sex have equal opportunity to learn the game and leisure time to practice - both boys and girls will win a roughly equal number of matches, up to about the age of seven or eight. At that point, their development will diverge. Girls will be more patient, diligent and disciplined, while the boys will fidget, make rude noises and be distracted every ten seconds. At age twelve to fourteen, the boys will become extremely competitive - knock over the table and stomp out when they lose - while the girls will start to lose interest and drop out gradually. By sixteen, you'll have maybe 30 boys and 10 girls left in the club. Only ten percent will go on to play chess into adulthood and the men will do it more often and more seriously than the one woman.
In the playing of games, emotional involvement, priorities and time of life are far more significant than mental ability.

In the sciences - so many different sciences, one hesitates even to put them all in a single category of endeavour - I should think close observation was at least a marginally greater advantage than spatial perception. So I have to question the levelness of the playing field.

Anybody can "do" philosophy; you just need a lot of down-time.
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by duszek »

I don´t know about chess but how about bridge, sudoku and cross-words ?

Has anyone noticed any different natural abilities in these games ?
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why are women different mentally?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

duszek wrote:I don´t know about chess but how about bridge, sudoku and cross-words ?

Has anyone noticed any different natural abilities in these games ?
Where do you think all this is leading you?
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